crzymdups wrote:I think he'll be similar to Al Harrington here. Some moments of brilliance. Some moments of painful awfulness.

I hope he can pull it together, but I'm not really banking on it.

Luckily, I don't think the Knicks need to bank on it either. I think it's a pretty low risk move.

not low risk really when that money could have been spend on a couple of non tools.

tj23 wrote:Light it once in a while to make posters here believe he's valuable but in reality be a complete failure.

100% chance

blkexec wrote:

Reminds me of how Stein will look playing with Cousins on offense.

The garden will love him.

nixluva wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Reminds me of how Stein will look playing with Cousins on offense.

The garden will love him.

Been style over substance. We'll love the moment and then rightfully trash him if he still doesnt defend, board or hit wide open J's. Derric is simply right now" he was drafted number two in the draft" which will quickly change "that was four years ago, he's a bust " if he doesnt improve his overall game beyond highlight dunks

You have to look at how he's able to snake in and get to the rim back door of find a lane straight to the basket. That's some of the penetration that Phil is talking about. In a motion offense like the Triangle there will be openings off all the motion and a strong finisher will excel scoring off all the Hand Offs that are a constant feature of the offense. Sometimes you have to look beyond the way a player may look in a different offense and imagine them in this offense which is very different from what he was playing in before.

This offense is all about ball and player movement and I think he could excel in that kind of system. Just keep moving and eventually the ball comes to you in motion and headed towards the basket. All the cuts in this offense should give DWill plenty of good looks. He'll end up in the corner for 3 where he's more efficient as well. It should be interesting to see how he adapts to this offense.

meloanyk wrote:

nixluva wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Reminds me of how Stein will look playing with Cousins on offense.

The garden will love him.

Been style over substance. We'll love the moment and then rightfully trash him if he still doesnt defend, board or hit wide open J's. Derric is simply right now" he was drafted number two in the draft" which will quickly change "that was four years ago, he's a bust " if he doesnt improve his overall game beyond highlight dunks

You have to look at how he's able to snake in and get to the rim back door of find a lane straight to the basket. That's some of the penetration that Phil is talking about. In a motion offense like the Triangle there will be openings off all the motion and a strong finisher will excel scoring off all the Hand Offs that are a constant feature of the offense. Sometimes you have to look beyond the way a player may look in a different offense and imagine them in this offense which is very different from what he was playing in before.

This offense is all about ball and player movement and I think he could excel in that kind of system. Just keep moving and eventually the ball comes to you in motion and headed towards the basket. All the cuts in this offense should give DWill plenty of good looks. He'll end up in the corner for 3 where he's more efficient as well. It should be interesting to see how he adapts to this offense.

I like to buy into that vantage point, that his specialty or strength plays to the system but it doesnt change the fact that he has been a limited player in too many aspects of the game. Triangle may provide him some additional dunking opportunities but it aint helping his boarding or defense and his spotty mid range J.

All shots are not created equal. A lot of what's wrong with DWill can come from not having a very clear role and knowing where your shots are coming from. Believe me that if you get spotty touches and start to force up bad shots it's gonna artificially make you look worse than you are. The one thing about the Triangle is that you get into a rhythm of where your shots are coming from and the looks you're going to get and you touch the ball a lot cuz there isn't any PG pounding the ball. The ball has to move and everyone gets to touch the ball. It's such a different system from what other teams run that it's Pluto and Mars in terms of distance.

You almost have to throw out a lot of what a player does in other systems. This is why I bring up Shved who looked totally different in the Triangle because the way he was used was different than how he was used before. Here he was kept in his sweet spot offensively. Same thing with Bargs who was kept in his sweet spot in this offense. There are no guarantees but DWill could easily get a huge boost from a clear role where his shots come from spots where he's strong and in a rhythm where he can be more efficient. It's not like he doesn't have the talent. He just hasn't been able to put it all together. This is what system basketball is all about. Taking the randomness out of it and giving the team more structure and thoughtfulness.

misterearl wrote:A. demonstrate why he was the number two pick and take advantage of a fresh start

B. languish in mediocrity, never embracing a work ethic worthy of Charies Oakley

C. be released after training camp

I hope D.

D. Find the humility to realize he will never be the franchise core or franchise player or top 5 player that was hoped for when he was drafted, but that with hard work and sacrifice, he can reinvent himself into a very useful team/rotation player.

Keeping with that, since he doesn't have an elite three point shot and doesn't operate well in close contact, he should work to lose 30-35 pounds and forego any idea of ever being a power forward again. His bread and butter with hard work and good coaching can be to be an elite perimeter defender if he simply committed and bled for that. With his length, he could really help the Knicks a ton.

Offensively, he needs to be shaded by Coach Fisher into the right matchups. Williams can help in transition. He's not a high BB IQ player, but he's very instinctive when the pace picks up and he is green lighted to attack the basket. Don't put him in a position to think, he can't read the floor, simply put him in a position to react and let his natural gifts carry him.

If you don't have better talent on the floor, you need to start to dictate the pace to give yourself an advantage. Williams needs more Nellieball than he needs Triangle ball.

Tweeners need to learn operate smaller, not bigger.

He'll never offer offensive consistency, he's too low IQ in general for that. But defense can be his new identity, if he's willing to make the sacrifice and work five times harder than he ever has for anything.

ESOMKnicks wrote:I think I get it now. The value Dwill provides is pure entertainment. The NBA is, after all, a show, and the management has to think not just about winning, but also about filling Garden seats with breathing human asses. Hence the big dollars to DWill for his entertaining dunks. The tourist crowds, who would not give a hoot about the Knicks, championships, victories and other trivial stuff, would feel they get their money's worth after seeing a couple of them dunks.

I found this article is thinking the same way I have been thinking about what they like about DWill.

Derrick Williams Addition Helps Knicks Pick-and-Roll
by Quentin Haynes 2h ago

While the addition of Williams remains confusing, the new signee could offer solid production as a pick-and-roll man—something the Knicks experimented with at the end of last season.

I’m still rather uncertain of what to make of this move. The New York Knicks signed Derrick Williams, the No. 2 overall pick in the 2011 NBA Draft, to a two-year deal worth $10 million. All is not guaranteed however, as Williams has a player option for the second year of his contract.

That last blurb still makes me wonder what the Knicks were thinking.

Up to this point in his career, Williams has been a huge disappointment, failing to live up to that No. 2 overall billing when he entered into the league. On paper, many believed that Williams would eventually become a mismatch forward, capable of overpowering small forwards and going around power forwards.

In his last season at Arizona, he also flashed a capable shot from beyond the arc, providing some draft analysts with ammunition in claiming Williams, and not then-Duke Blue Devils guard Kyrie Irving, was the No. 1 player in the draft class.

Four seasons later, Williams is still trying to figure it out on both sides of the floor. Defensively, he’s a mess. Per 82games.com, Sacramento 11 points better—eleven!—when Williams was on the bench and NBA.com’s player tracking had him with a difference percentage of 3.5.

In that 3.5 difference, Williams allowed opponents to convert at a rate of 71.4 percent on shot attempts from less than six feet—11.0 percentage points higher than the 60.4 average.

Offensively, he isn’t much better.

Over his four year career, Williams has yet to sport a true shooting percentage over 54 percent and a field goal percentage above 45 percent. The 56 percent he shot from three in his final season at Arizona turned out to be a blip rather than a trend, as Williams has been a poor three-point shooter for much of his NBA career, converting just 31 percent thus far.

He isn’t a phenomenal driver, and he’s still developmental at best as a corner three shooter.

Add all that up, then add that the Knicks gave him $10 million on the third day of free agency with a player option for the second season, removing any chance of getting him at a solid price if he does figure it out—you know, something Atlanta did with DeMarre Carroll in 2013 and Justin Holiday yesterday—and I feel secure in saying that this wasn’t my favorite offseason acquisition.

His play on the court will dictate it from there, but today, this wasn’t a great contract.

For all of the problems with this move, I like that Phil Jackson and Steve Mills are taking a chance on a player, even if that player is someone that many believe has one foot out of the league. Williams is still young at 24 years old, and was in some pretty negative places for his development—the Minnesota Timberwolves and Sacramento Kings, respectively.

Admittedly, there are some small things that I’m curious to see develop in his game. With so much uncertainty on the backend of the roster, Williams will get every chance to prove that he belongs in the NBA.

Offensively, he has more or less thrived when the ball is passed to him in positions of strength, almost like a garbage man of sorts. According to NBA.com’s play type data, Williams was solid as a cutter and in transition. As a cutter, Williams shot 62 percent from the floor and had a turnover percentage of just 4.2 percent on 71 total possessions. Move over to transition statistics and Williams finished on 68 percent of his shots last season.

Having someone who can get in position to finish and thrive without plays being called for him is great, let alone someone who can excel as a cutter in an offense predicated on passing and movement.

He’s also good from shooting from the left corner, exceeding the league average in the last two seasons. Developing into a solid corner shooter would be a huge plus in Williams’ development, as it would make him into a floor spacer and a threat in both the pick and roll and pick and pop.

However, Williams has done minimal damage from that area, with just 45 attempts this past season according to NBA.com. If Williams could up the usage from that area, as well as improve from the right side—32.2 percent last year—he’d become an interesting player.

His best work was, oddly enough, as a roll man on the pick and roll. NBA.com’s play type data had Williams finishing on 50 percent of his shot attempts from that area, but he also garnered the second-highest free throw frequency from them at 33.6 percent.

The combination of above average success as a roll man, combined with the ability to get free points from the play makes it one of the more interesting dynamics in the signing.

Late last season, in a piece written by Ian Begley of ESPN New York, it was mentioned that Knicks head coach Derek Fisher was experimenting with the pick-and-roll. The Knicks finished last in pick-and-roll ball handler frequency (10.9 percent) and 14th in roll man frequency (6.8 percent), but used more of it as the season closed.

Williams, someone who thrives in that role, would be a welcomed addition to a team that, while wanting to run more triangle-based offense, isn’t afraid to flex a bit, using some different offensive principles to find success.

The Knicks are still looking to run the triangle offense next. Two recent additions, as well as Begley’s article from late last season, suggest that Fisher is not afraid of mixing it up and is interested in running some more pick and rolls.

The addition of Williams gives them a successful, yet undersized, roll man who can finish and draw contact. The second is the draft day acquisition of Jerian Grant. Grant was a solid all-around point guard at Notre Dame, but did an excellent job of attacking and directing the offense out of the pick-and-roll.

Over the course of his four seasons at Notre Dame, Grant became a dynamic point guard – capable of operating any offensive system. Under head coach Mike Brey, the Fighting Irish ran multiple pro-level offensive sets with Grant at the helm. His ability to shoot—surprisingly, Grant was a great shooter before his senior season, hitting over 35 percent of his threes as a sophomore and junior—and attack the basket off the pick-and-roll makes him dangerous as an offensive threat.

His passing ability makes him a perfect fit for a Knicks team that would like to incorporate that into the offense next season.

As for Williams, he helps as a pick-and-roll finisher. If he can continue developing a three-point shot and improve a bit on the defensive end, he would become an interesting player for the Knicks moving forward.

anrst wrote:i can't get past his hair. no one with that terrible of a sense of style can be that good. he's not dyed those mini dreads blonde. not a good sign.

He needs to spend less time at the hair salon and more time in the weight room.

Blonde tips? Get the fck outta here with that ...