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Why was Dallas so much more attractive than NY?
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mreinman
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7/6/2015  5:14 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think

He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.

Just to add to that:
To make up for the tax difference, we'd have to pay him 82 mil and it would match the 80 mil in Dallas.
When I go to CNN's cost of living calculators, I find that to match the 80 mil that Dallas offered, we'd have to pay him closer to 200 mil.

Of course the cost of living is a big factor as well.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
AUTOADVERT
mreinman
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7/6/2015  5:14 PM
Vmart wrote:I honestly think the Media scares off Free Agents.

no sh1t

so here is what phil is thinking ....
SwishAndDish13
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7/6/2015  5:20 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think

He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.

He would actually take home probably closer to 5 mil less. That is a significant amount of money we are talking about (over 5% of the contract). While it probably wasn't an issue for LMA, it has been in the past and it certainly allows players to leave the extra money teams can pay to retain them on the table a lot easier.
holfresh
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7/6/2015  5:21 PM
Don't discount general hatred NY fans have for their top players..Ewing hate, Melo hate..
nixluva
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7/6/2015  5:24 PM
Just can't worry so much about it. The focus now has to be on growing our own. Develop our draft picks, UDFA's and young FA's. Eventually if you win that changes everything about how you're perceived. That's what Phil is focused on now. Just building this thing up the right way.
mreinman
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7/6/2015  5:25 PM
holfresh wrote:Don't discount general hatred NY fans have for their top players..Ewing hate, Melo hate..

Jeter, Eli, Clyde, etc ... you need to win here.

Mattingly was loved without winning but that may have been because he was not a self centered jerk.

Ewing had a lot of people who did not like him but he deserved better. Part of the issue was that he had a terrible personality and hating sharing the rock. NY is too smart for excuses.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Bonn1997
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7/6/2015  5:26 PM
SwishAndDish13 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think

He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.

He would actually take home probably closer to 5 mil less. That is a significant amount of money we are talking about (over 5% of the contract). While it probably wasn't an issue for LMA, it has been in the past and it certainly allows players to leave the extra money teams can pay to retain them on the table a lot easier.


I'm pretty sure that's wrong. Are you taking into account BOTH the jock tax and federal income tax deduction value of state and local taxes?
Bonn1997
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7/6/2015  5:27 PM
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think

He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.

I was not inferring anything from players not coming to NY. NY Stinks and is a shytty place to play when they stink.


OK - then I misunderstood your comment before.
mreinman
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7/6/2015  5:29 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think

He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.

I was not inferring anything from players not coming to NY. NY Stinks and is a shytty place to play when they stink.


OK - then I misunderstood your comment before.

But how about Texas over another City with a reasonable cost of living?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
holfresh
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7/6/2015  5:33 PM
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:Don't discount general hatred NY fans have for their top players..Ewing hate, Melo hate..

Jeter, Eli, Clyde, etc ... you need to win here.

Mattingly was loved without winning but that may have been because he was not a self centered jerk.

Ewing had a lot of people who did not like him but he deserved better. Part of the issue was that he had a terrible personality and hating sharing the rock. NY is too smart for excuses.

JR, Shump, Tyson. etc...I think we saw an article where Billups said it casually to Melo after being traded to NY..
Bonn1997
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7/6/2015  5:33 PM
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think

He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.

I was not inferring anything from players not coming to NY. NY Stinks and is a shytty place to play when they stink.


OK - then I misunderstood your comment before.

But how about Texas over another City with a reasonable cost of living?


Or do people think they get more from NYC? Almost no one would go to NYC if it didn't have so many draws. True employers can offer more without a salary cap to compensate for the cost of living but they don't offer 2.5x more.
y2zipper
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7/6/2015  5:35 PM
The State Tax doesn't issue doesn't play a huge role if you aren't a national superstar like LeBron/Durant/Curry because you can recoup endorsement dollars you wouldn't get elsewhere. Look at how many National ads Blake Griffin had before Chris Paul got there and he's not even that great a player. It only becomes a factor when the other factors, like what a player's role is going to be and what the basketball situation is, aren't liked.

What Jordan wanted was more touches. He wants to be a franchise player and wants more shots, and that's how he chose his team. Whether Jordan is or isn't a franchise player, Dallas recruited him and sold him by pitching that to him and you can hear it when Cuban says things like "We see him as a potential Shaq-type franchise player." We all know it's a load, but that's the pitch Dallas made and he's from Texas, and they have Carlisle and Cuban there as well.
mreinman
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7/6/2015  5:35 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think

He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.

I was not inferring anything from players not coming to NY. NY Stinks and is a shytty place to play when they stink.


OK - then I misunderstood your comment before.

But how about Texas over another City with a reasonable cost of living?


Or do people think they get more from NYC? Almost no one would go to NYC if it didn't have so many draws. True employers can offer more without a salary cap to compensate for the cost of living but they don't offer 2.5x more.

its not 2.5 x more.

Are you calculating the cost of living in manhattan? NJ? LI?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Bonn1997
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7/6/2015  5:36 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
SwishAndDish13 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think

He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.

He would actually take home probably closer to 5 mil less. That is a significant amount of money we are talking about (over 5% of the contract). While it probably wasn't an issue for LMA, it has been in the past and it certainly allows players to leave the extra money teams can pay to retain them on the table a lot easier.


I'm pretty sure that's wrong. Are you taking into account BOTH the jock tax and federal income tax deduction value of state and local taxes?

Actually I think there's a cap of federal income tax deductions and so the second part of my question doesn't apply. So I think you're right that we would have to offer closer to 85 mil to match their 80 mil.
mreinman
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7/6/2015  5:37 PM
holfresh wrote:
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:Don't discount general hatred NY fans have for their top players..Ewing hate, Melo hate..

Jeter, Eli, Clyde, etc ... you need to win here.

Mattingly was loved without winning but that may have been because he was not a self centered jerk.

Ewing had a lot of people who did not like him but he deserved better. Part of the issue was that he had a terrible personality and hating sharing the rock. NY is too smart for excuses.

JR, Shump, Tyson. etc...I think we saw an article where Billups said it casually to Melo after being traded to NY..

You get killed here if you are part of a losing team

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Bonn1997
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7/6/2015  5:37 PM
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think

He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.

I was not inferring anything from players not coming to NY. NY Stinks and is a shytty place to play when they stink.


OK - then I misunderstood your comment before.

But how about Texas over another City with a reasonable cost of living?


Or do people think they get more from NYC? Almost no one would go to NYC if it didn't have so many draws. True employers can offer more without a salary cap to compensate for the cost of living but they don't offer 2.5x more.

its not 2.5 x more.

Are you calculating the cost of living in manhattan? NJ? LI?


Yeah, I used Manhattan and Dallas in CNN's calculator. It was about 2.4x.
mreinman
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7/6/2015  5:38 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think

He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.

I was not inferring anything from players not coming to NY. NY Stinks and is a shytty place to play when they stink.


OK - then I misunderstood your comment before.

But how about Texas over another City with a reasonable cost of living?


Or do people think they get more from NYC? Almost no one would go to NYC if it didn't have so many draws. True employers can offer more without a salary cap to compensate for the cost of living but they don't offer 2.5x more.

its not 2.5 x more.

Are you calculating the cost of living in manhattan? NJ? LI?


Yeah, I used Manhattan and Dallas in CNN's calculator. It was about 2.4x.

Jump over the bridge and its a new ball game.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
franco12
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7/6/2015  5:39 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:it really does look like the state tax in texas may be playing a bigger role than we think

He'd take home about 2 mil less of that 80 mil if he were in NY. That seems unlikely. You're observing the outcome (NY didn't get free agents) and inferring a highly unlikely cause IMO. Although I doubt money was the issue at all, the cost of living differences between NYC and Dallas are WAY bigger than the tax issues.

I was not inferring anything from players not coming to NY. NY Stinks and is a shytty place to play when they stink.


OK - then I misunderstood your comment before.

But how about Texas over another City with a reasonable cost of living?


Or do people think they get more from NYC? Almost no one would go to NYC if it didn't have so many draws. True employers can offer more without a salary cap to compensate for the cost of living but they don't offer 2.5x more.

$80m is in the realm of generational wealth.

While I would struggle to live in Manhattan with my salary/family, no NBA star is going to really have that same problem.

Now, definitely the smaller contracts are different - that I understand. But a top star with top pay - NYC is not crushing him with COI & taxes.

Media, yes. The style of life - urban vs. suburban, maybe.
holfresh
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7/6/2015  5:40 PM
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:Don't discount general hatred NY fans have for their top players..Ewing hate, Melo hate..

Jeter, Eli, Clyde, etc ... you need to win here.

Mattingly was loved without winning but that may have been because he was not a self centered jerk.

Ewing had a lot of people who did not like him but he deserved better. Part of the issue was that he had a terrible personality and hating sharing the rock. NY is too smart for excuses.

JR, Shump, Tyson. etc...I think we saw an article where Billups said it casually to Melo after being traded to NY..

You get killed here if you are part of a losing team

Odds are that you are going to lose..
mreinman
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7/6/2015  5:41 PM
holfresh wrote:
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:Don't discount general hatred NY fans have for their top players..Ewing hate, Melo hate..

Jeter, Eli, Clyde, etc ... you need to win here.

Mattingly was loved without winning but that may have been because he was not a self centered jerk.

Ewing had a lot of people who did not like him but he deserved better. Part of the issue was that he had a terrible personality and hating sharing the rock. NY is too smart for excuses.

JR, Shump, Tyson. etc...I think we saw an article where Billups said it casually to Melo after being traded to NY..

You get killed here if you are part of a losing team

Odds are that you are going to lose..

not even talking about losing ... c'mon

I am talking about stinking

Mattingly never won. He did not even make the playoffs until the bitter end.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
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