mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:as long as the triangle still highlights the 20 footer, I wan't know part of it.

I've pointed this out before but you really have to be aware that the Lakers had some very efficient offenses just 3-5 years before Phil took the Knicks job.

Warriors 2014-15 Off Rtg: 111.6 (2nd of 30)
Lakers   2010-11 Off Rtg: 111.0 (6th of 30)
Lakers   2009-10 Off Rtg: 108.8 (11th of 30) 
Lakers   2008-09 Off Rtg: 112.8 (3rd of 30)
Lakers   2007-08 Off Rtg: 113.0 (3rd of 30)

they had some extremely efficient players.

That's the point isn't it??? The style of offense they played had a part in the process as well. If it was a bad offense it should've hampered their efficiency. The clearly were a very efficient team and the Triangle proved to be an efficient offense. It's not just about taking 3's or long 2's. There's more to the game and more to the Triangle offense than mid range shots.

You think Phil isn't aware of the fact that his teams played efficiently and had efficient players? The idea is to build a team that has the talent to play efficient and smart basketball and can defend at a high level. If he is successful in adding more efficient and smart two way players you'll see the team execute the offense at a higher level and take fewer bad shots.

did the triangle make shaq an efficient player? Or was he a damn giant who could not really be stopped?

You do realize that this only underscores what Phil is trying to do here? You aren't refuting the point at all. Phil is trying to build the team along the lines of his principles. Phil identified Shaq as a perfect Triangle big before he even came to the Lakers. It only makes sense that in an offense built around a low post big at it's core that you would expect a player like Shaq to be great in it.

It's not about the Triangle "making" Shaq an efficient player. It's about employing efficient players in a format to create an efficient overall offense. You can have singularly efficient players but not an efficient offense!!! You make a player like Shaq even more effective in a system like the Triangle and he makes everyone else more effective.

The whole point of the Triangle is the low post player in the strong side Triangle and the mid post player on the weak side Pinch Post. So you want at least one great post player for establishing the Triangle. There's no point in making an issue of having efficient players when that's the point of the system. It's designed for 2 post players and a 3rd wing post player as well.

ok ... so if phil gets me a shaq with his eye for talent then I am sold on phil as my savior

Phil knows he needs a low post big for his team. He knows he needs a lot of wings who have multiple skills and high BB IQ. His scouts will have their eyes out for those specific types of players. He knows that he can add another big in the mold of a Pau type and what his role will be in the offense. Between the Draft and Free Agency and Trades Phil will be able to fill the roles in this system.

nixluva wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:In the interview Phil mentioned that the Bulls hit for an NBA record in 3's in the playoffs in one series...might have said the finals.

He highlighted the idea that the offense is one which is intended to reward a player's effort to create an open shot for himself.

I would also expect that a good post scorer, or someone who can penetrate would be able to open things up for 3 point shots.

I think he probably goes crazy watching THJ or JR, when with the Knicks, jack up 3s without making any effort to move the ball around.

Don't here folks making many criticism of SA, and they feature a great deal of movement- and there are some aspects of the triangle in it. The big thing is that they have some guys who can open up things by driving, and the threat of a guy like Duncan in the post.

If you have the right personnel, as was said above, there is no reason why this offense can't fit in today.

My biggest issue is Anthony's fit.

One of the reasons Russell is an intriguing player for me, and I've said this in another post, is that he might be the only guy in the draft who would butt heads with Anthony on offense(at least I hope he would) if Phil and Fisher can win him over to their view on offense.

Melo isn't the issue just as Kobe and Jordan were resistant to the confines of the Triangle he will always be pushing against the flow of the Triangle. That's not the end of the world, but he has to try and blend more often than not and if he does then he'll be fine. The offense can survive some amount of freelancing. It's better if you save that for later in the shot clock.

The real important thing isn't one player but upgrading the rest of the team so that it can function at a higher level regardless of Melo or anyone else that has more selfish tendencies. You need the bulk of your roster to buy in completely and to be able to execute team ball at a high level. It will have a net positive effect on everyone including Melo. Then we should see more of Olympic Melo than Woodson Melo.

The dream would be that Russell falls to the Knicks, but i'm not getting my hopes up about that. If it happens then we'll all celebrate.

You saw guys defer too much to James in the finals, and ultimately that hurts a team. We've seen the same thing with Anthony on the Knicks, especially with the kind of inexperienced/pedestrian players we had last year.

When I played pickup BB games I was one of those Bill Bradley/Redick types who would run around and try to get some screens so I would be open to take a pass for a jumper since I was pathetic slashing and getting open for a pass to score inside.

You completely lose you energy when you play with a guy who won't recognize your effort to get open because he is going 1/1 or just jacking it up. It's a team killer in a pickup game and in the NBA.

Why do you think THJ had issues last year- was not just his D- he was playing in an offense where you have to move, and there were many games where he thought he was in the Woodson ISO offense.

You don't think that the GS offense does not reward players for doing the right thing? San Antonio? You are totally correct about the Olympic Team Melo, but he was on a dream team, not waiting for a pass from Galloway. This is why the best teams Anthony has played on had a championship winning PG on them. This is also why Anthony was the original target to play with James and Wade in a big 3, but couldn't do it because he wanted the $$ from the Knicks.

I know that you want, and even need, some hero-ball freelancing, but that will only get you so far, IMO.

We will see with him, but I will interested to see how he buys into the Triangle next season.

nixluva wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

nixluva wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:In the interview Phil mentioned that the Bulls hit for an NBA record in 3's in the playoffs in one series...might have said the finals.

He highlighted the idea that the offense is one which is intended to reward a player's effort to create an open shot for himself.

I would also expect that a good post scorer, or someone who can penetrate would be able to open things up for 3 point shots.

I think he probably goes crazy watching THJ or JR, when with the Knicks, jack up 3s without making any effort to move the ball around.

Don't here folks making many criticism of SA, and they feature a great deal of movement- and there are some aspects of the triangle in it. The big thing is that they have some guys who can open up things by driving, and the threat of a guy like Duncan in the post.

If you have the right personnel, as was said above, there is no reason why this offense can't fit in today.

My biggest issue is Anthony's fit.

One of the reasons Russell is an intriguing player for me, and I've said this in another post, is that he might be the only guy in the draft who would butt heads with Anthony on offense(at least I hope he would) if Phil and Fisher can win him over to their view on offense.

Melo isn't the issue just as Kobe and Jordan were resistant to the confines of the Triangle he will always be pushing against the flow of the Triangle. That's not the end of the world, but he has to try and blend more often than not and if he does then he'll be fine. The offense can survive some amount of freelancing. It's better if you save that for later in the shot clock.

The real important thing isn't one player but upgrading the rest of the team so that it can function at a higher level regardless of Melo or anyone else that has more selfish tendencies. You need the bulk of your roster to buy in completely and to be able to execute team ball at a high level. It will have a net positive effect on everyone including Melo. Then we should see more of Olympic Melo than Woodson Melo.

The dream would be that Russell falls to the Knicks, but i'm not getting my hopes up about that. If it happens then we'll all celebrate.

Love yu...even though you're a Steinboy, but you are wrong about Anthony and his impact on the offense.

You saw guys defer too much to James in the finals, and ultimately that hurts a team. We've seen the same thing with Anthony on the Knicks, especially with the kind of inexperienced/pedestrian players we had last year.

When I played pickup BB games I was one of those Bill Bradley/Redick types who would run around and try to get some screens so I would be open to take a pass for a jumper since I was pathetic slashing and getting open for a pass to score inside.

You completely lose you energy when you play with a guy who won't recognize your effort to get open because he is going 1/1 or just jacking it up. It's a team killer in a pickup game and in the NBA.

Why do you think THJ had issues last year- was not just his D- he was playing in an offense where you have to move, and there were many games where he thought he was in the Woodson ISO offense.

You don't think that the GS offense does not reward players for doing the right thing? San Antonio? You are totally correct about the Olympic Team Melo, but he was on a dream team, not waiting for a pass from Galloway. This is why the best teams Anthony has played on had a championship winning PG on them. This is also why Anthony was the original target to play with James and Wade in a big 3, but couldn't do it because he wanted the $$ from the Knicks.

I know that you want, and even need, some hero-ball freelancing, but that will only get you so far, IMO.

We will see with him, but I will interested to see how he buys into the Triangle next season.

Fisher was the one that often made the decision to move the ball away from Kobe early on in the offense and it will be the same here as we upgrade the talent on this roster and have more capable scorers and passers on the floor. Fisher will have his guards doing the same things. Things will flow as they should.

This idea that Melo will completely destroy the entire teams offensive flow is not true. No more than when we had Kidd and all those vets and the offense flowed very well. It's not a permanent state of dysfunction here. With better players you will see growth and trust develop even with Melo. When he sees that his teammates can get it done even without him, he will relax and play in the flow. I don't just believe this. I KNOW THIS WILL HAPPEN.

really? c'mon man