blkexec wrote:His scouting report video are clips from actual games, not a workout video. Granted it's just a small sample size, but they are from real games. And he has the pedigree, which usually turns out pretty well.....Curry and Thompson for example. His brother is or was an All Star baller. So he's bound to be something special.

He's performed similar moves in a real game before. The video just shows you what he can do as a go to guy. You can lean on his offensive skill right now. I don't understand how people say he's 2 years away. Away from what? This guy can hit any arsenal of offensive shots....step backs, catch and shoot....off the dribble. Lobs....

Porzingus will contribute right away and could be rookie of the year, depending on the system and minutes. Because he's the type that can fill up a stat sheet. Blocks, Rebound, 3's, Steals

The only thing he hasn't been known for is passing. The good thing about the Triangle is what....passing. The Triangle forces you to be more of a passer first, and scorer second. So the Triangle will actually help his development even more.

Porzingus will help keep a big guy out of the paint.....So Melo and Monro would just eat up any remaining big thats left in the paint. Remember, he's a catch and shoot big.....so in half court, he's like Novak. In crunch time, he can create his own shot with step backs, or that ugly 1 leg fade away Dirk type jumper. The kid is legit, whether anybody believes it or not.

I think thats got a good shot to be your starting frontcourt, and while there are always question marks that is a group that can certainly compliment each other. Center with a big ass who passes and scores down low and two forwards with great range and spacing. Porzingis could end up being a great helper and Melo has shown to be a very good rebounder even at the 4.

Jose and Galloway probably start...

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:His scouting report video are clips from actual games, not a workout video. Granted it's just a small sample size, but they are from real games. And he has the pedigree, which usually turns out pretty well.....Curry and Thompson for example. His brother is or was an All Star baller. So he's bound to be something special.

He's performed similar moves in a real game before. The video just shows you what he can do as a go to guy. You can lean on his offensive skill right now. I don't understand how people say he's 2 years away. Away from what? This guy can hit any arsenal of offensive shots....step backs, catch and shoot....off the dribble. Lobs....

Porzingus will contribute right away and could be rookie of the year, depending on the system and minutes. Because he's the type that can fill up a stat sheet. Blocks, Rebound, 3's, Steals

The only thing he hasn't been known for is passing. The good thing about the Triangle is what....passing. The Triangle forces you to be more of a passer first, and scorer second. So the Triangle will actually help his development even more.

Porzingus will help keep a big guy out of the paint.....So Melo and Monro would just eat up any remaining big thats left in the paint. Remember, he's a catch and shoot big.....so in half court, he's like Novak. In crunch time, he can create his own shot with step backs, or that ugly 1 leg fade away Dirk type jumper. The kid is legit, whether anybody believes it or not.

another interesting article

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/06/18/mitnick-kristaps-porzingis-is-not-a-top-five-pick/

Kristaps Porzingis Is Not a Top-Five Pick

Latvian big man Kristaps Porzingis is flat-out not worth a top-five pick in the 2015 NBA draft. He’s not even the best European prospect this year; that would be Mario Hezonja.

With the draft just 10 days away, Porzingis’ stock has taken a dramatic rise that has put him in the conversation to be among the first three players selected, with some even debating if it may be worth it to take him first overall ahead of Karl-Anthony Towns.

While Porzingis is a lottery lock with great potential, after seeing him a great deal these past two years, I can tell you he is being overvalued right now.

This season for Spanish club Baloncesto Sevilla, Porzingis made big strides in his game – improving his skills, his body and his confidence – on his way to being named the European rising star of this year’s Eurocup. While Sevilla had a rough season in the Spanish ACB League, it played well enough in the Eurocup to qualify for the round of 32 (the competition’s second stage), where Porzingis got extremely valuable experience for someone still shy of his 20th birthday.

For a 7-1 player, Porzingis possesses incredible mobility with great legs. Not only is he an excellent catch-and-shoot player, he can set a screen for a high pick-and-roll and end up finishing with a sweet alley-oop dunk. Porzingis gets out very quickly in transition, where he is a quality finisher, and does a great job coming from outside for offensive rebounds. There is no question that Porzingis should be a lottery prospect in this draft, but the hype surrounding him over the past few days since his ballyhooed Las Vegas workout is way over the top.

ASM, the agency spearheaded by Andy Miller, made a brilliant move running its own workout and inviting every NBA team, rather than having Porzingis work out individually for teams. With full control over the environment, ASM put Porzingis in the perfect situation to showcase his strengths, and he hit the ball out of the park, leaving both NBA staffers and media drooling over his potential. Unfortunately for the Pistons, Bucks and Nuggets – who used lottery picks on Darko Milicic, Yi Jianlian and Nikoloz Tskitishvili, respectively, mostly on the merit of how they looked in workouts – a predraft workout is almost irrelevant when looking at the potential of a player.

The reality is that Porzingis was a 20-minute per game player for a Spanish team that failed to make the playoffs and did not have an American at his position. American coach Scott Roth, a former NBA player who had multiple stints as an NBA assistant, was fired in January and essentially paid the price for giving Porzingis a bigger role instead of building a team that could reach the postseason.

Last season, Dario Saric played on a Cibona team that was struggling financially and didn’t have the strongest roster. But Saric was able to put the team on his back and singlehandedly lead it to great heights. If you have the type of length and mobility of Porzingis, what excuse do you have for grabbing three rebounds or fewer in 19 of 50 games this season, especially when you are second on your team in minutes?

ESPN draft expert Chad Ford said that if Porzingis were in college this past season, “I have no doubt – and a number of scouts have said this – we’d be talking about him as a potential No. 1.”

PorzingisTo be honest, I would say absolutely the opposite. If Porzingis played in college and had lost in the first round of the NCAA Tournament, maybe he would be going back to school because he didn’t think he would be a lottery pick. I don’t buy the idea that he would have been as dominant as Towns, Jahlil Okafor and Frank Kaminsky were in college this season. I would even go one step further and say that if Hezonja played for Sevilla instead of Porzingis, Sevilla would have made the playoffs and Hezonja would’ve been on the All-ACB First Team.

A lot of American journalists like to label European players as unknown because they don’t watch international basketball. The average reader doesn’t, either. But in 2015, every NBA team has access to every European league game, and with Google Translate, you can follow everything going on with every top prospect in every country. NBA teams have had every chance to see Porzingis many times, and anyone tasked with making a draft decision has been watching Porzingis for a while.

So how could a workout just two weeks before the draft greatly impact the stock of a player that teams have had many opportunities to see over the past years?

The answer is the herd mentality. If you put enough basketball personnel in one room to see a player in an ideal, controlled environment and he impresses, teams not only are more interested because of his potential, but also because they saw that other teams were impressed. For what it’s worth, the biggest winner of the workout was ASM, because their pre-draft strategy for Porzingis was brilliant. I’m sure other players and agents will take notice.

Porzingis certainly is no draft bust like Milicic or Tskitishvili, but he doesn’t seem to be Dirk Nowitzki, either. Whichever team drafts him likely will be very happy, but at this point it doesn’t look like a good idea to pick Porzingis ahead of Towns, Okafor, D’Angelo Russell, Emmanuel Mudiay, Justise Winslow, Willie Cauley-Stein or even Hezonja.

By all rights Bargnani should be a far better player than he is based on his actual talent level. He's not the only player we can say that about. There are many limiting factors including Drive and Desire to be the best and also some guys just don't have the ability to sustain a high rate of player over 30-35 minutes of NBA level basketball. Some guys don't have a high motor. I mean there are any number of things that limit a player from maximizing their full potential. The tough job is for scouts and GM's to figure out who has the "IT FACTOR" and who doesn't. That's really hard to ascertain.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:His scouting report video are clips from actual games, not a workout video. Granted it's just a small sample size, but they are from real games. And he has the pedigree, which usually turns out pretty well.....Curry and Thompson for example. His brother is or was an All Star baller. So he's bound to be something special.

He's performed similar moves in a real game before. The video just shows you what he can do as a go to guy. You can lean on his offensive skill right now. I don't understand how people say he's 2 years away. Away from what? This guy can hit any arsenal of offensive shots....step backs, catch and shoot....off the dribble. Lobs....

Porzingus will contribute right away and could be rookie of the year, depending on the system and minutes. Because he's the type that can fill up a stat sheet. Blocks, Rebound, 3's, Steals

The only thing he hasn't been known for is passing. The good thing about the Triangle is what....passing. The Triangle forces you to be more of a passer first, and scorer second. So the Triangle will actually help his development even more.

Porzingus will help keep a big guy out of the paint.....So Melo and Monro would just eat up any remaining big thats left in the paint. Remember, he's a catch and shoot big.....so in half court, he's like Novak. In crunch time, he can create his own shot with step backs, or that ugly 1 leg fade away Dirk type jumper. The kid is legit, whether anybody believes it or not.

another interesting article

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/06/18/mitnick-kristaps-porzingis-is-not-a-top-five-pick/

Kristaps Porzingis Is Not a Top-Five Pick

Latvian big man Kristaps Porzingis is flat-out not worth a top-five pick in the 2015 NBA draft. He’s not even the best European prospect this year; that would be Mario Hezonja.

With the draft just 10 days away, Porzingis’ stock has taken a dramatic rise that has put him in the conversation to be among the first three players selected, with some even debating if it may be worth it to take him first overall ahead of Karl-Anthony Towns.

While Porzingis is a lottery lock with great potential, after seeing him a great deal these past two years, I can tell you he is being overvalued right now.

This season for Spanish club Baloncesto Sevilla, Porzingis made big strides in his game – improving his skills, his body and his confidence – on his way to being named the European rising star of this year’s Eurocup. While Sevilla had a rough season in the Spanish ACB League, it played well enough in the Eurocup to qualify for the round of 32 (the competition’s second stage), where Porzingis got extremely valuable experience for someone still shy of his 20th birthday.

For a 7-1 player, Porzingis possesses incredible mobility with great legs. Not only is he an excellent catch-and-shoot player, he can set a screen for a high pick-and-roll and end up finishing with a sweet alley-oop dunk. Porzingis gets out very quickly in transition, where he is a quality finisher, and does a great job coming from outside for offensive rebounds. There is no question that Porzingis should be a lottery prospect in this draft, but the hype surrounding him over the past few days since his ballyhooed Las Vegas workout is way over the top.

ASM, the agency spearheaded by Andy Miller, made a brilliant move running its own workout and inviting every NBA team, rather than having Porzingis work out individually for teams. With full control over the environment, ASM put Porzingis in the perfect situation to showcase his strengths, and he hit the ball out of the park, leaving both NBA staffers and media drooling over his potential. Unfortunately for the Pistons, Bucks and Nuggets – who used lottery picks on Darko Milicic, Yi Jianlian and Nikoloz Tskitishvili, respectively, mostly on the merit of how they looked in workouts – a predraft workout is almost irrelevant when looking at the potential of a player.

The reality is that Porzingis was a 20-minute per game player for a Spanish team that failed to make the playoffs and did not have an American at his position. American coach Scott Roth, a former NBA player who had multiple stints as an NBA assistant, was fired in January and essentially paid the price for giving Porzingis a bigger role instead of building a team that could reach the postseason.

Last season, Dario Saric played on a Cibona team that was struggling financially and didn’t have the strongest roster. But Saric was able to put the team on his back and singlehandedly lead it to great heights. If you have the type of length and mobility of Porzingis, what excuse do you have for grabbing three rebounds or fewer in 19 of 50 games this season, especially when you are second on your team in minutes?

ESPN draft expert Chad Ford said that if Porzingis were in college this past season, “I have no doubt – and a number of scouts have said this – we’d be talking about him as a potential No. 1.”

PorzingisTo be honest, I would say absolutely the opposite. If Porzingis played in college and had lost in the first round of the NCAA Tournament, maybe he would be going back to school because he didn’t think he would be a lottery pick. I don’t buy the idea that he would have been as dominant as Towns, Jahlil Okafor and Frank Kaminsky were in college this season. I would even go one step further and say that if Hezonja played for Sevilla instead of Porzingis, Sevilla would have made the playoffs and Hezonja would’ve been on the All-ACB First Team.

A lot of American journalists like to label European players as unknown because they don’t watch international basketball. The average reader doesn’t, either. But in 2015, every NBA team has access to every European league game, and with Google Translate, you can follow everything going on with every top prospect in every country. NBA teams have had every chance to see Porzingis many times, and anyone tasked with making a draft decision has been watching Porzingis for a while.

So how could a workout just two weeks before the draft greatly impact the stock of a player that teams have had many opportunities to see over the past years?

The answer is the herd mentality. If you put enough basketball personnel in one room to see a player in an ideal, controlled environment and he impresses, teams not only are more interested because of his potential, but also because they saw that other teams were impressed. For what it’s worth, the biggest winner of the workout was ASM, because their pre-draft strategy for Porzingis was brilliant. I’m sure other players and agents will take notice.

Porzingis certainly is no draft bust like Milicic or Tskitishvili, but he doesn’t seem to be Dirk Nowitzki, either. Whichever team drafts him likely will be very happy, but at this point it doesn’t look like a good idea to pick Porzingis ahead of Towns, Okafor, D’Angelo Russell, Emmanuel Mudiay, Justise Winslow, Willie Cauley-Stein or even Hezonja.

I think the reaction to the hype comes more from the people who were seeing him for the first time. Doubt that anyone who has been following him over the past two years made that much of a thing out of the video that came out of the workout, or the workout itself, for that matter. Anyone really think that Hinkie went running back to Philly and told his people,"gosh, you guys have to see this kid...he's amazing.

I've said it before, I think the workout, but more so the video, were also a mechanism for exposing him to an American populace that had not seen him.

Funny, but Porzingis was playing well after January, and was getting the same minutes, after Roth was gone. Why wouldn't Sheridan mention this or get a quote from a present coach?? Sounds like Ross might have been trying to develop him, to be honest.

The Towns and Cauley Stein video put out by CAA served the same purpose, and folks around UK jumped on that initial video, like a pit bull on a poodle, as some kind justification for their belief that Stein was some kind of offensive monster who would be unleashed from Calipari's chains once he came to the NBA, and do things as a pro that he had never shown as collegiate player.

Porzingis had talks with a lot of teams following the workout, and the Lakers asked him in for a private workout.

Sounds like the Knicks have had a much greater interest in him than we initially thought.

I think it is pretty well established that his impact in the NBA will be more gradual as he matures physically, even though there are some things he can do immediately.

I'm obviously a supporter for us taking him- I would love to have him and think he could (I would use this word with any player in the top 5 or 6) be a great player, but if Russell or OK4 were to be present when we pick, I could easily argue against myself and take them over Porzingis.

I would have a tougher job doing that with Winslow, and a very tough job doing that with Mudiay and Stein.

Like Hezonja a great deal, and am on record as saying he could be the most talented guy in the draft- with him its about character. He might end up being the most exciting and dynamic player from this draft, though, if he shapes up the right way. I would be surprised, but not unhappy if we took him.

blkexec wrote:Very interesting....It's definitely a gamble to select Porzingus.....And with Stein, there's really no gamble. You know what you get. Same with the other guys like Winslow and even Mudiay. Well, hopefully our international scouts are doing their job. I tried to look at a real game and didn't see anything really positive....But the scouting video must have just cut out all the negatives and put together the positives, like they do with most videos.

Hezonja (eventhough I haven't seen him) sounds like somebody that always has a chip on his shoulder. Mix in his shooting / scoring skill, and he might be a steal. Porzingus will not be drafted on production....Same with Mudiay and Stein. They are drafted on potential. Unlike Durrant, who played one year....He was killing every stat you can think of in his first year. You knew he was a star. You don't have anybody with that level of college production. Ok4 is the closest one. Everybody else is purely ranked on potential.

If i'm Phil I would have put WCS thru a typical basic Triangle Primer Course and drilled the footwork, passing and shots he would have to execute. Not a very difficult process to test and see where his level is at right now and if he has any aptitude for success. He and his staff would at least have a more direct idea of what his true skill level is at and what his potential for the future could be.

WaltLongmire wrote:

crzymdups wrote:There's this idea on this forum that Porzingis is some airtight, can't miss prospect. Just wanted to post that there are people who watch the game and study the game and scout Europe extensively who do not share that view.

You can poo poo their opinions all you want, but Porzingis is not some can't miss prospect. He's got huge question marks and his body is two years away from being ready to play in the NBA.

People are comparing him to Gasol - Gasol was much bigger, and I believe a year or two older. He came into the league averaging 17ppg and 9rpg his rookie season and won ROY. The idea that Porzingis will do that is pretty farfetched.

Also, for instance that Wojo article on Porzingis... you realize that one of Wojo's sources is agent Andy Miller. Andy Miller is Porzingis's agent who organized that VERY well covered workout in Vegas. How do you think Wojo gets his #WojBombs stories? From agents. Agents like Andy Miller. Wojo was doing that guy a favor. There has been a very big publicity push on this prospect. He's a good prospect, but I believe he is being overvalued at the moment.

You get misinformation from everywhere, and history shows us that few in the draft are truly can't miss prospects before they actually pay.

I would never say anyone is a can't miss prospect.

Stein will be 22 in a few months, and he had the same criticism made about his body as Porzingis- I've seen him in a HS video- and he was lighter as a freshman than Porzingis is now.

You guys are never consistent with the application of your principles for looking at players- which is why it is so easy to pick apart arguments some make around here.

Guys are going to find conclusion to support their beliefs- especially when it come sot people they did not know about.

I was not a Porzingis supporter till I started researching him- I always figured we would get 1 or 2, and figured we would argue about Towns, OK4, and Russell. He can play and has a very solid background in the game.

By the way, you do realized that Sheridan, like Wojo (if that is true-which I have no proof of), might have a particular bias. He might also be reacting to the fools who suddenly discovered that Porzingis was not a mystery man and was not bad, and started going gaga over him because of the video.

Agents are all over the place pushing their guys- I expect it, but I try to reach my own conclusions.

U were killing me yesterday as I inquired if KP sudden rise in drat projection was off a video...Seems like I was right...

WaltLongmire wrote:
You get misinformation from everywhere, and history shows us that few in the draft are truly can't miss prospects before they actually pay.

I would never say anyone is a can't miss prospect.

Stein will be 22 in a few months, and he had the same criticism made about his body as Porzingis- I've seen him in a HS video- and he was lighter as a freshman than Porzingis is now.

You guys are never consistent with the application of your principles for looking at players- which is why it is so easy to pick apart arguments some make around here.

Guys are going to find conclusion to support their beliefs- especially when it come sot people they did not know about.

I was not a Porzingis supporter till I started researching him- I always figured we would get 1 or 2, and figured we would argue about Towns, OK4, and Russell. He can play and has a very solid background in the game.

By the way, you do realized that Sheridan, like Wojo (if that is true-which I have no proof of), might have a particular bias. He might also be reacting to the fools who suddenly discovered that Porzingis was not a mystery man and was not bad, and started going gaga over him because of the video.

Agents are all over the place pushing their guys- I expect it, but I try to reach my own conclusions.

I agree agents are all over the place, pushing their guys. CAA has their clients, Andy Miller has his, etc. That's why these workout tapes shouldn't be looked at too closely.

I remember hearing Tony Douglas used to never miss in practice or alone in the gym. Come game time, he froze right the heck up and couldn't hit the side of the backboard.

I think Porzingis can eventually be quite good. One of my big questions is if he'll be given the necessary development and handled the right way here in NY with our beloved Knicks and Melo and Dolan and Phil wanting very badly to make the playoffs. I just think it'd be a horrible environment for a kid that is gonna need a fair amount of development and transitioning to the league. I think guys like Winslow, Stein, Mudiay would probably adapt more quickly and easily to this sh!t show that is the New York Knicks.

Anyway, hopefully Russell drops and all this is moot. Though I am doubting the top three is anything other than Towns, Okafor, Russell, in that order.

holfresh wrote:Phil had 7 Knick front office types out to see KP in Vegas...I am so scared...

because they are doing their due diligence?

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil had 7 Knick front office types out to see KP in Vegas...I am so scared...

because they are doing their due diligence?

Nothing I have seen so far has made me think Phil has done his due diligence...

and what have you seen?

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil had 7 Knick front office types out to see KP in Vegas...I am so scared...

because they are doing their due diligence?

Nothing I have seen so far has made me think Phil has done his due diligence...

The scout he is said to trust the most-Gaines- was the guy sent over with some others to look at him in actual games.

You may believe that Porzingis will never be a good player in the NBA, and we all fight over this kind of thing-providing various arguments to support our side, but believing that his potential value to a team is being decided upon by a video is completely unsupported by evidence to the contrary.

So if you told me that you believe gravity does not apply to you in your daily life I somehow have to make an allowance for this exemption from the laws of physics because you declare it to be some sacrosanct belief that is beyond examination?

Coaches, GMs, and team execs, including Phil's top scout, and others, had seen him during this year and last, and already had opinions about him that were not going to be radically changed by a 1/0 workout. Orlando and at least one other team wanted him to come out last year before he withdrew from the draft. He was a top draft prospect looked at over two seasons before you seemingly found out he exists.

Beliefs and opinions can always be examined and be criticized.
A fact is a fact whether or not an individual believes or doesn't believe it.

We may not take him and he may never be the star some think he can be, but it boggles the mind that you cannot conceive that teams had an idea of his talent before that stupid workout video.

This video is for you:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil had 7 Knick front office types out to see KP in Vegas...I am so scared...

because they are doing their due diligence?

Nothing I have seen so far has made me think Phil has done his due diligence...

The scout he is said to trust the most-Gaines- was the guy sent over with some others to look at him in actual games.

You may believe that Porzingis will never be a good player in the NBA, and we all fight over this kind of thing-providing various arguments to support our side, but believing that his potential value to a team is being decided upon by a video is completely unsupported by evidence to the contrary.

So if you told me that you believe gravity does not apply to you in your daily life I somehow have to make an allowance for this exemption from the laws of physics because you declare it to be some sacrosanct belief that is beyond examination?

Coaches, GMs, and team execs, including Phil's top scout, and others, had seen him during this year and last, and already had opinions about him that were not going to be radically changed by a 1/0 workout. Orlando and at least one other team wanted him to come out last year before he withdrew from the draft. He was a top draft prospect looked at over two seasons before you seemingly found out he exists.

Beliefs and opinions can always be examined and be criticized.
A fact is a fact whether or not an individual believes or doesn't believe it.

We may not take him and he may never be the star some think he can be, but it boggles the mind that you cannot conceive that teams had an idea of his talent before that stupid workout video.

This video is for you:

?????..Whats the gravity bit???..Come on dude..Try to make sense when having a discussion...