holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Moonangie wrote:Orlando would give ALL that to NY to move up 1 spot? Unlikely. But if so, I'd STRONGLY urge the team to take that deal. We'd probably still be able to draft Mudiay.

One man's potential junk is another man's potential treasure.

For them, that one spot might actually be trading up to #1.

I'm speculating, of course. Did read that they told the Latvian last year that they would take him in the lottery if he was in the draft.

Inside outside with Vucevich.

Question- If, for some reason, Towns fell to 4, and you had the 5th pick, and you believed he was hands down the best player in the draft.

What would you offer to get Towns?

Are we talking about the Knicks and what we have now to offer up in a trade?? Because we don't have much.

If you had the 5th, a 2nd this year, and next year's 1st & 2nd, would you give them up for Towns if he fell for some strange reason?

Towns became a mythical figure after his workout video..He really didn't have any offensive moves at Kentucky..But after seeing his workouts where he couldn't miss a jumper then people want to trade future first round picks for him..Its like college never happened..

I agree in many ways with this, same was true with Stein in that workout, but Towns was supposedly knocking down 3s in HS, and is good at the line. I also saw some nice moves in the post vs Wisc- he and Kaminsky had some good battles down low, too. He was protected on D by guys like Stein and Lyles, and their other bigs, too.

My thing with Towns is that there is no way he and his size 20 feet can play the 4 in this league the way it is developing. Don't see the movement. Has to be a 5, and Minny already has a decent center, who I don't think can play PF.

My KG 2.0 theory is that Saunders, who loves Porzingis, flips with LA, who then gets a very happy Towns. Minny gets LA's 27th and their very early #2 (34th).

Just a theory, but who knows.

I'm amazed..U just went thru this discussion about overhyped players because of workout video and then u propose an insane trade of the best player in the draft for the biggest overhyped 4 minute video star in the 2015 draft..

By the way, what team workouts has Towns participated in? Do we have any official agility measurements for him on record? How many minutes did he average with KU? Do we have game footage of him hitting 3s like he did in the video he put out? Has he had significant time playing on the perimeter as a defender? Was he the only big player on his team?

I'm talking about Saunders, who likes him a great deal and has traveled out of the country to see him this year- he is the guy who compared him to KG, not me.

I don't think Saunders would make the trade, but this is the kind of stuff we thrown around on this forum, since nothing we say really matters are far as who gets chosen by whom.

Honestly, some folks don't know how the overseas players have been scrutinized. You do know that we started sending "Dream Teams" to the Olympics because the world was catching up with the U.S. in BB, and I've heard rumors that they even lost one year.

Remember, he pulled out of the draft last year, despite an offer from Orlando, allegedly. Teams have now looked at his draftworthiness two years in a row. He's not a former volleyball player who decided to play for the money 6 months ago.

For a player like Porzingis, the workout video was for two groups:

-Some GMs might have seen him in person for the first time- others might have seen some new moves he's worked on- but there are a core of GMs and teams who have seen him last year and this year in Europe, and the bloody workout is somewhat meaningless for them, since they already have an idea of what he can, can't, and may someday do.

-The other group includes folks like you and me who have not traveled to Europe to see him play during the 2+ years he was competing against grown men in a highly regarded league, and getting their Rising Star Award. I've watched parts of game and the highlight vids out there, which look at strengths and weaknesses, but I thought is was interesting to see him a little closer up.

Some folks were impressed by the video to the point where if the Knicks, or another team, takes him, they won't be as unhappy as they might have been. That, I think,is one reason this kind of workout was shown, but don't think that the guys who get paid to draft these players are only basing their decision on a scripted workout video...or is that what you believe?

holfresh wrote:Knicks have one NBA caliber starter..This is a chance to add another starter at a fair wage...So Phil is considering trading down to add to our overflowing roster of bench players??..Hard to believe...

i don't see a problem with stocking up on bench talent when winning a title with melo as the main piece is highly unlikely.

melo was brought in by dolan to put asses in seats and he will continue to do that job superbly. he is branding himself and most new yorkers going to the garden don't know jack about the game, they just want to spend big bucks to be entertained. for some reason beyond my ability to comprehend, some people find melo entertaining. i mean think of the box seats. i have been in them several times over the years. it's basically a small catered affair with "oh yeah there's a game" in the background, and afterthought really. melo has been up there no doubt so he knows what the deal is. it is not about winning it's about being a part of an "event." yes he is maybe an nba-caliber starter-- he is really best served as a sixth man-- but that's really besides the point, an attitude that is as plain as day whenever you hear him speak.

if the knicks trade down it is a sure sign of patiently building from scratch with player development as the priority. i am absolutely in favor of that approach.

what free agents are going to be acquired that will get the knicks to become legitimate contenders? the answer is "there are none."

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Knicks have one NBA caliber starter..This is a chance to add another starter at a fair wage...So Phil is considering trading down to add to our overflowing roster of bench players??..Hard to believe...

i don't see a problem with stocking up on bench talent when winning a title with melo as the main piece is highly unlikely.

melo was brought in by dolan to put asses in seats and he will continue to do that job superbly. he is branding himself and most new yorkers going to the garden don't know jack about the game, they just want to spend big bucks to be entertained. for some reason beyond my ability to comprehend, some people find melo entertaining. i mean think of the box seats. i have been in them several times over the years. it's basically a small catered affair with "oh yeah there's a game" in the background, and afterthought really. melo has been up there no doubt so he knows what the deal is. it is not about winning it's about being a part of an "event." yes he is maybe an nba-caliber starter-- he is really best served as a sixth man-- but that's really besides the point, an attitude that is as plain as day whenever you hear him speak.

if the knicks trade down it is a sure sign of patiently building from scratch with player development as the priority. i am absolutely in favor of that approach.

what free agents are going to be acquired that will get the knicks to become legitimate contenders? the answer is "there are none."

It's pretty sad that your disdain for Melo have allow you to give the front offices a pass in getting pieces around him to win..This helps you continue your rhetoric of despair with Melo on the roster...I just ask for another all star caliber player to take the scoring load off Melo..Bron seems to be able to get 2 or 3 everywhere he goes...Just one other guy...

Your anti-Melo soliloquy has become boring and old...Some how I know you are smarter than u are pretending..Then again maybe not...

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Knicks have one NBA caliber starter..This is a chance to add another starter at a fair wage...So Phil is considering trading down to add to our overflowing roster of bench players??..Hard to believe...

i don't see a problem with stocking up on bench talent when winning a title with melo as the main piece is highly unlikely.

melo was brought in by dolan to put asses in seats and he will continue to do that job superbly. he is branding himself and most new yorkers going to the garden don't know jack about the game, they just want to spend big bucks to be entertained. for some reason beyond my ability to comprehend, some people find melo entertaining. i mean think of the box seats. i have been in them several times over the years. it's basically a small catered affair with "oh yeah there's a game" in the background, and afterthought really. melo has been up there no doubt so he knows what the deal is. it is not about winning it's about being a part of an "event." yes he is maybe an nba-caliber starter-- he is really best served as a sixth man-- but that's really besides the point, an attitude that is as plain as day whenever you hear him speak.

if the knicks trade down it is a sure sign of patiently building from scratch with player development as the priority. i am absolutely in favor of that approach.

what free agents are going to be acquired that will get the knicks to become legitimate contenders? the answer is "there are none."

It's pretty sad that your disdain for Melo have allow you to give the front offices a pass in getting pieces around him to win..This helps you continue your rhetoric of despair with Melo on the roster...I just ask for another all star caliber player to take the scoring load off Melo..Bron seems to be able to get 2 or 3 everywhere he goes...Just one other guy...

Your anti-Melo soliloquy has become boring and old...Some how I know you are smarter than u are pretending..Then again maybe not...

i am smarter than most people, and smarter than most people not so smart as me are capable of assessing. no brag just fact. that's the thing about most people: they do not know and they do not know that they do not know. that's my experience with most people, with the inevitable downstream effect of their becoming uncomfortable and defensive once properly asked questions are posed and they either give misdirection responses or <crickets> and <bullfrogs>.

you should think about your vision for the knicks for the next 3 years. do you foresee any legitimate chance of the knicks making the conference finals? yes or no? because if you don't then your retort to my post is just noise.

i am not rooting for the knicks to lose while melo is here, but it is practically a certainty that the knicks will not be withing striking distance of a title so long as melo is here. if he gets moved to the bench that will be a good sign because that would mean that phil built a solid team of two-way players, with the luxury of melo coming off the bench abusing the opponents' benches.

again: do you foresee any legitimate chance of the knicks making the conference finals? yes or no?

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Knicks have one NBA caliber starter..This is a chance to add another starter at a fair wage...So Phil is considering trading down to add to our overflowing roster of bench players??..Hard to believe...

i don't see a problem with stocking up on bench talent when winning a title with melo as the main piece is highly unlikely.

melo was brought in by dolan to put asses in seats and he will continue to do that job superbly. he is branding himself and most new yorkers going to the garden don't know jack about the game, they just want to spend big bucks to be entertained. for some reason beyond my ability to comprehend, some people find melo entertaining. i mean think of the box seats. i have been in them several times over the years. it's basically a small catered affair with "oh yeah there's a game" in the background, and afterthought really. melo has been up there no doubt so he knows what the deal is. it is not about winning it's about being a part of an "event." yes he is maybe an nba-caliber starter-- he is really best served as a sixth man-- but that's really besides the point, an attitude that is as plain as day whenever you hear him speak.

if the knicks trade down it is a sure sign of patiently building from scratch with player development as the priority. i am absolutely in favor of that approach.

what free agents are going to be acquired that will get the knicks to become legitimate contenders? the answer is "there are none."

So why is it that everyone states NY fans have the most knowledge. There a lot of suites at MSG, and i don't doubt it's mostly corporate, but stating that most MOST msg fans are there to see melo, is a insult.

As far as FA, you can't look for the most talented, it's all about the fit. I strongly believe no matter what phil does, the coaching staff needs changing..

Markji wrote:If Towns, Okafor and Russell are taken 1-2-3 then it makes sense to trade the #4 pick for a 7 thru 9 pick. That is, unless Phil and the mgmt are really impressed with any of Mudiay, Porzingis or Winslow, which I don't think they are. In my thought, Mudiay, Porzingis and Winslow are all young (19 yrs old) with 1 year of playing (Freshman) and need time to develop. If we aren't going to take the time to develop them because we want to put experienced players around Melo, then let someone else take them 4, 5, and 6. If we pick 7 or 8 we can get a Willie Stein Cauley(Jr) or a Kaminski (Sr) who are solid players with more college experience. They could contribute sooner. And if one of the 3 - M, P, or Winslow fall to us at 7 or 8, then we get the same player for at a lower pick plus whatever else was part of the trade.

Also the salary for #4 pick is $3,105,500 while the #8 pick is $2,136,100 so there would be a savings of $1 million on the cap space for this year and future yrs.

Again, your not trading the pick, your trading the players you pick with. Thus, the draft has to go the way you want it. If Boston comes up to 5 or 6th and takes WCS, then what? Still do a deal?
What if the deal has say Denver wanting Kristaps with our pick, and we want Winslow. If Kristaps is off the board, and say OKA4 drops to us, how does that change? We don't know whats on Knicks board, but fact is we can't trade the pick, we trade the resulting player after.

This is what makes pre draft trades so difficult and why "we have a trade to announce" comes after the pick.

If Kristaps is on the board and someone really wants him I can see us having a deal in principle in place, but part two is that the player we want at the low pick might have to be there as well.
We have a lot of holes to fill on the roster and we have Melo. At the same time if we get a roster changing player when is the player to be ready?

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Knicks have one NBA caliber starter..This is a chance to add another starter at a fair wage...So Phil is considering trading down to add to our overflowing roster of bench players??..Hard to believe...

i don't see a problem with stocking up on bench talent when winning a title with melo as the main piece is highly unlikely.

melo was brought in by dolan to put asses in seats and he will continue to do that job superbly. he is branding himself and most new yorkers going to the garden don't know jack about the game, they just want to spend big bucks to be entertained. for some reason beyond my ability to comprehend, some people find melo entertaining. i mean think of the box seats. i have been in them several times over the years. it's basically a small catered affair with "oh yeah there's a game" in the background, and afterthought really. melo has been up there no doubt so he knows what the deal is. it is not about winning it's about being a part of an "event." yes he is maybe an nba-caliber starter-- he is really best served as a sixth man-- but that's really besides the point, an attitude that is as plain as day whenever you hear him speak.

if the knicks trade down it is a sure sign of patiently building from scratch with player development as the priority. i am absolutely in favor of that approach.

what free agents are going to be acquired that will get the knicks to become legitimate contenders? the answer is "there are none."

It's pretty sad that your disdain for Melo have allow you to give the front offices a pass in getting pieces around him to win..This helps you continue your rhetoric of despair with Melo on the roster...I just ask for another all star caliber player to take the scoring load off Melo..Bron seems to be able to get 2 or 3 everywhere he goes...Just one other guy...

Your anti-Melo soliloquy has become boring and old...Some how I know you are smarter than u are pretending..Then again maybe not...

I'm with you on this 100%. It sure would be nice to give Melo some actual talent to see what he can do with an actual team around him. The only time Melo had an actual team around him was in Denver and they were a pretty good team but not good enough to beat the other west teams like the Lakers and Spurs that were stacked back then but even with those stacked teams Denver was pretty good and he still didn't have a great cast around him. The best player was a older Billups.

crzymdups wrote:Chad ford is terrible.

WaltLongmire wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Chad ford is terrible.

pretty much this. He hasnt added much

He's a conduit for the stuff he picks up from his sources- not much more.

The would have been a time in the past where you might excitedly wait for his stuff to come out in a weekly BB magazine, but the web changed everything, and you can get some twitter feeds from the better reporters and pretty much get everything Ford is putting out, and sometimes more.

I won't necessarily discount what he puts out, but he is just one of a herd, these days.