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We should draft for either win-now w/ melo vs. build for life beyond and regardless of melo
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dk7th
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i thought i'd volunteer some come choices to filter decision-making or wish-listing. and no: "take the best player available" is an invalid response or a copout.
build a team from "triangle scratch" even if melo is here
acquire a player to hide melo's flaws while trying to win now
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WaltLongmire
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6/14/2015  9:50 PM
stopstandthere wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:After investing $120 million in an older dude like Carmelo, it really makes no sense to try to build a roster that will win ten years from now.

Yes agree. We have to be practical. Some creative ideas are appreciated though but they can't work in reality.

Melo is here and will be here. He is an ended-product. Just build around him at this stage.


Which can also lead mediocrity and rapid decline.

We did this with our geriatric vets a few years ago and look what happened. We did this when we traded a #1 for Bargs, which was done for Anthony and done for the now.

You want to support Anthony, but you don't build around him as if he is a foundational player, which he is not at this point.


The Knicks are not an "ended-product." A team should never be considered such a thing.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
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StarksEwing1
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6/14/2015  9:56 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
stopstandthere wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:After investing $120 million in an older dude like Carmelo, it really makes no sense to try to build a roster that will win ten years from now.

Yes agree. We have to be practical. Some creative ideas are appreciated though but they can't work in reality.

Melo is here and will be here. He is an ended-product. Just build around him at this stage.


Which can also lead mediocrity and rapid decline.

We did this with our geriatric vets a few years ago and look what happened. We did this when we traded a #1 for Bargs, which was done for Anthony and done for the now.

You want to support Anthony, but you don't build around him as if he is a foundational player, which he is not at this point.


The Knicks are not an "ended-product." A team should never be considered such a thing.

well said walt. Trying to appease melo will only put us in the same position we are in now. Its time to build for next year without sacrifice the future. Lets be honest its possible we may not make the playoffs next year but progress and looking for sustainable success is key
EwingsGlass
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6/14/2015  10:13 PM
build a franchise, not a team.
You know I gonna spin wit it
masud
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6/14/2015  11:54 PM
We can try (and fail) to build a contender around Melo though free agency . The pick should be used on who we think is the best player, screw how they fit with Melo or the triangle for that matter.
stopstandthere
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6/14/2015  11:56 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
stopstandthere wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:After investing $120 million in an older dude like Carmelo, it really makes no sense to try to build a roster that will win ten years from now.

Yes agree. We have to be practical. Some creative ideas are appreciated though but they can't work in reality.

Melo is here and will be here. He is an ended-product. Just build around him at this stage.


Which can also lead mediocrity and rapid decline.

We did this with our geriatric vets a few years ago and look what happened. We did this when we traded a #1 for Bargs, which was done for Anthony and done for the now.

You want to support Anthony, but you don't build around him as if he is a foundational player, which he is not at this point.


The Knicks are not an "ended-product." A team should never be considered such a thing.

Fully understand the reasoning behind but the question is how? Shall we adopt what Philly is doing?
crzymdups
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6/15/2015  12:15 AM
Why even debate this when it is so clear the Knicks are building around Melo.
¿ △ ?
StarksEwing1
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6/15/2015  12:20 AM
crzymdups wrote:Why even debate this when it is so clear the Knicks are building around Melo.
probably because we want to at least dream the knicks will make the right move instead of continuously messing up
stopstandthere
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6/15/2015  12:30 AM
The debate should starts again after 2.5-3 years from now.
stopstandthere
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6/15/2015  12:51 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Why even debate this when it is so clear the Knicks are building around Melo.
probably because we want to at least dream the knicks will make the right move instead of continuously messing up

We know they will mess up in every single chance. Things just didn't go smooth as wish all the time.
nixluva
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6/15/2015  12:55 AM
Phil is trying to build a franchise that can have sustained success. He's going to be stocking the shelves in D league but at the same time have a winning NBA squad. He's been saying that's his goal. He's not looking to lose for 3-4 years hoping to land the next Lebron. How many teams have tried that only to still be losing teams. You have to have more to your plan than that.

This team doesn't have a 1st rd pick next year. The reality is we can build completely thru the draft. Phil is taking the only realistic path.
tj23
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6/15/2015  1:04 AM
Just take the bpa, A guy with high potential that isn't too much of a risk/project. *Cough* E-Man
blkexec
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6/15/2015  7:44 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
wargames wrote:Can't we do both?
This. Just wondering who the pick would be to hide Melo's flaws/win now and who the pick would be to build for life beyond Melo?

Thats a new thread or what this thread should be.

Stein helps now.
Mudiay longterm after they scrap the triangle.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
blkexec
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6/15/2015  7:46 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
stopstandthere wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:After investing $120 million in an older dude like Carmelo, it really makes no sense to try to build a roster that will win ten years from now.

Yes agree. We have to be practical. Some creative ideas are appreciated though but they can't work in reality.

Melo is here and will be here. He is an ended-product. Just build around him at this stage.

i just dont think you can go far building around him especially at this point in his career, great scorer just doesnt have the overall talent

Clearly phil has 120 million reasons why he disagrees with you.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
blkexec
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6/15/2015  7:47 AM
masud wrote:We can try (and fail) to build a contender around Melo though free agency . The pick should be used on who we think is the best player, screw how they fit with Melo or the triangle for that matter.

+1

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Nalod
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6/15/2015  8:56 AM
A work in progress has Melo as our star now, but as the team gets better around him he could still have some decent trade value to a team trying to get to that next level.

I don't see it as an "either/Or" but more a fluid process.

Dolan has to still sell seats like most teams but Phil has to move the team into the future.
newyorker4ever
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6/15/2015  9:55 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:
stopstandthere wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:After investing $120 million in an older dude like Carmelo, it really makes no sense to try to build a roster that will win ten years from now.

Yes agree. We have to be practical. Some creative ideas are appreciated though but they can't work in reality.

Melo is here and will be here. He is an ended-product. Just build around him at this stage.


Which can also lead mediocrity and rapid decline.

We did this with our geriatric vets a few years ago and look what happened. We did this when we traded a #1 for Bargs, which was done for Anthony and done for the now.

You want to support Anthony, but you don't build around him as if he is a foundational player, which he is not at this point.


The Knicks are not an "ended-product." A team should never be considered such a thing.


This is why if we do sign Monroe and draft a young stud at 4 we'd have those two guys to take over in 4 years since Monroe is only 24. It wouldn't be bad to have Mudiay and Monroe to take over when Melo is done and his money comes off the books and the cap is way up we can build around whoever our pick is and Monroe but if we sign a 30 year old LMA or Gasol then it's win now and start pretty much fresh in 4 years with our draft pick which I guess isn't a horrible thing. What I'm getting at is that it would be nice to already have a couple good/great players on the team when Melo is done.
newyorker4ever
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6/15/2015  10:01 AM
crzymdups wrote:Why even debate this when it is so clear the Knicks are building around Melo.

If we signed Monroe I wouldn't look at that as building around Melo cause he'll be in his prime when Melo is gone.
wargames
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6/15/2015  10:25 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/15/2015  10:26 AM
newyorker4ever wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Why even debate this when it is so clear the Knicks are building around Melo.

If we signed Monroe I wouldn't look at that as building around Melo cause he'll be in his prime when Melo is gone.

Monroe is the type of move that I put under the "both" category. He could be a 20/10 guy next year. He could be a 20/10 (or better) when Melo leaves. I hope that same type of logic is used when it comes to the draft rookie. Draft a player who can contribute in some strong ways now but has potential and the work ethic to improve.

The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
Sangfroid
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6/15/2015  10:58 AM
newyorker4ever wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:You take the bpa the guy you think at his peak will be the best player

That's what we should do but it sure looks like Phil will go for fit before he goes for BPA. Hopefully the best fit will end up being the BPA.

Here's hoping that they are one and the same.

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
y2zipper
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6/15/2015  12:39 PM
Agree with BRIGGS here. This thing should basically be treated as a long-term asset. Get the guy who's going to be the best player when he peaks.
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We should draft for either win-now w/ melo vs. build for life beyond and regardless of melo
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