BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Kenyon martin was a dominant college basketball player on both ends. He showed up every game and dominated

That said, Martin was the first pick in one of the weakest drafts in recent memory. Could you imagine how much his game would get picked a part now. Limited upside, no range, tweener etc.

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I remember Tyson showing a jump shot before he left. Looked like he had added a weapon to his arsenal and then just stopped shooting. WCS apparently shoots in practice but not in games. You never know if WCS will take the next step.
At 4 that is a big if.

You can never go wrong drafting a big who dominated the collegiate ranks on defense with a top four pick. Kenyon Martin was the first pick of his draft and he had a crest career.

Howard was the first pick of his draft, and I for one did not think he would outshine Okafor

This is an opportunity for the Knicks to FINALLY pick a player that can play NY style if basketball. One who is a monster on defense and can help this entire roster to look good. He is a no brainer pick if you ask me. The two guys I would deer to over him are: Russell and Towns

I did pick Howard to be a better pro before the draft. I remember him being more active around the rim. Kmart was better in transition than WCS IMO. The names you mentioned were closer to all around players than WCS. I know he definitely brings something to the table but there are also question marks about his motor at times and his ability to do more on offense.

WCS is excellent in Transition. He scored at 1.4 ppp in transition.

Offensively, Cauley-Stein is not particularly prolific, but nevertheless finds ways to contribute in small doses. He is a voracious floor-runner, getting out in transition frequently to beat guards and big men alike, and converting 77% of his field goal attempts in these situations when he does, one of the best rates in college basketball.

He's also a significant weapon to have as a cutter and roller off the ball, where he finishes 61% of his attempts around the basket in non-post-up situations. This was his most frequent source of production in college, especially off lob plays, and will likely continue to be so in the NBA, particularly in pick and roll situations where his ability to just spring up off the floor off two feet for emphatic finishes is a highly coveted skill.

Beyond that, Cauley-Stein is fairly limited, relegated to occasional flashes of offense creating in a straight line from the high post with an extremely quick first step and very rudimentary ball-handling ability. He also showed some improvement with his jump-shot as a junior, knocking down a handful of jumpers on the season, and increasing his free throw percentage from a dismal 37% as a freshman to a much more acceptable 62% as a junior.

He'll also contribute as an offensive rebounder (career 3.9 per-40), as his superior quickness and leaping ability allows him to go well out of his area at times, and his terrific second bounce gives him the ability to convert putbacks off multiple efforts.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz3cLF1cd00
http://www.draftexpress.com

WCS isn't totally devoid of ability offensively. He just needs to gain the confidence in his Post ups and Face up opportunities. He has the touch on his shots and the agility and coordination to execute post moves. He'd get a ton of touches and opps in the Triangle.

Nix Im not saying he sucks in transition, just remember KMart being more creative, but that was a long time ago.

I understand what you mean. Even tho WCS is 7' he has the speed, agility and explosion of a much smaller player. You don't normally see 7'ers who have his athletic ability. IMO his biggest problem wasn't so much that he was awful offensively, but just lacking the confidence to consistently look for his offense. It's what gives me hope he can develop his offense. He doesn't have to have it all together on day one.

that's why he needs to get on a heavy pnr team... for us it'd be a waste...

FistOfOakley wrote:stein's biggest problem is that he is very weak ball skills... he looks like terrified out there dribbling the ball... and shooting with ppl running around him.. forget about it...

that's why he needs to get on a heavy pnr team... for us it'd be a waste...

Maybe. Maybe not. You're talking about basic skills that anyone can work on and gain more facility. He didn't look uncomfortable with the ball in his workout. I'd say he just needs more work in scrimmages and games to gain confidence. I know for a fact that here on the Knicks he'd be learning how to handle the ball in the Triangle as a big man MUST gain comfort in making passes and looking to score in the flow of the offense. Goodness knows we had bigs who never handled the ball as much as they did with the Knicks. Lou Amundson in particular was never asked to handle the ball and look to score as much has in NY and he actually showed improvement to the point of being functional. WCS has more talent than Amundson.

A 7'er shouldn't be dribbling like he's a guard when there's lot of players close to him. He'll do as other Triangle bigs have done and that is catch the ball and let his teammates cut thru. Then when no other defender is near he can take a dribble or 2 at most and make his post move or face up and either shoot it or 1 dribble drive. If a defender comes to double he'll have to pass. It's basic stuff he be asked to do in practice every single day. No different than Amundson had to learn. WCS will be put in the same situations that Amundson was put in which is how the Triangle works. You don't really hide bigs in this offense. They're featured. So WCS will have no choice but to get comfortable having a bigger role.

FistOfOakley wrote:dribbling in an empty gym without hands flying at you from all sorts of directions is one thing... doing it on the court with some of the best athletes on the planet is another....

it's very hard to not have good proficiency in an area and all of a sudden become good at it in the pros... it can take a long time if at all...

WCS is raw and tentative but he has the basic talent needed to actually be able to develop his skills. He needs to be coached up on how to score and be physical inside. Nothing IMO that he can't be taught. IMO the raw talent is there.

nixluva wrote:

tj23 wrote:Mudiay - John Wall
Russell - Kevin Martin
Towns - Ibaka/Bynum
Okafor - Al Jefferson
Stein - Chris Anderson
Porzingis - Bargnani

If Mudiay was destined to be like John Wall that's pretty darned good.
I think Russell can be more than Kevin Martin, but I can see the comparison
Towns is IMO way more versatile than Ibaka or Bynum
Okafor should be more than Al Jeff. He's just a more fluid overall player.
WCS should be better than Anderson. He's working with more overall talent, tho very similar types of players.
KrisP could be another Bargs. It's hard to say at this point.

I don't see the Harden comparisons with Russell at all. Harden is a master at getting to the rim and Russell struggles especially with finishing. I can see Curry a bit but he's a rare breed. I said Martin because he's an excellent shooter and scorer but a not an overwhelming athlete.

For Towns I just don't see a dominant scorer. I see a capable scorer who is very versatile. Ibaka can spread the floor, Bynum has/had a post game and both defended/protected the rim.

Okafor has some really polished post moves that are superior to Jefferson however I question his ability to finish through contact at the next level and i predict he will heavily struggle on the defensive end. I also don't believe he consistently sees the floor well and forces shots through double teams.

I didn't go with Tyson for Stein like many have because I'm not convinced he will be a defensive anchor. I see him lose focus defensively. Great athlete and shot blocker with a bit more upside offensively but overall I think he'll be a liability on offense who can provide a spark on defense. Maybe Larry Sanders is more accurate?

With Porzingis I see a very talented athlete and good scorer with a horrendous basketball IQ. That's why I went with Bargs. But we'll see. I also thought Greg Oden was the wise choice for Portland...

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Kenyon martin was a dominant college basketball player on both ends. He showed up every game and dominated

that is the most ridiculous statement from you yet.

Kenyon averaged 19, 10, and almost 4 blocks a game as a senior. He was player of the year. Stein ad a good career but it wasn't close to what Kenyon did.

12 points and 7 rebounds in the nba and horrific shooting.

good defender, TERRIBLE offensive player.

He looked like a guy that was going to put up 16 and 8 for 8-10 years prior to his first micro fracture surgery.

his WS48 is a very measly .100 for his career. the only thing that he could do was play defense.

You realize he said dominant college player? Why are you citing his NBA stats?

good point ... missed that :-)

so used to his wild declarations

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Kenyon martin was a dominant college basketball player on both ends. He showed up every game and dominated

that is the most ridiculous statement from you yet.

Kenyon averaged 19, 10, and almost 4 blocks a game as a senior. He was player of the year. Stein ad a good career but it wasn't close to what Kenyon did.

12 points and 7 rebounds in the nba and horrific shooting.

good defender, TERRIBLE offensive player.

He looked like a guy that was going to put up 16 and 8 for 8-10 years prior to his first micro fracture surgery.

his WS48 is a very measly .100 for his career. the only thing that he could do was play defense.

You realize he said dominant college player? Why are you citing his NBA stats?

good point ... missed that :-)

so used to his wild declarations

nixluva wrote:WCS is a 7'er, which puts him in a different class. You get a 7'er that has his kind of speed, agility, length and hops and you have a very known quantity in the NBA. We already know what kind of impact that kind of player has in the league. He's already a great PnR defender, rim protector and should only get better overall as he learns and perfects his game.

As for this idea that WCS should slow down as he puts on weight, that's not necessarily true. Sure if it's fat and not functional muscle, he might be slowed down. WCS won't be slowed down by functional muscle. They train these athletes for explosion and not like a body builder just getting big. Lebron was 240 lbs coming into the NBA, he isn't significantly slower now that he weighs about 250.

WCS is still a prospect and not a finished product. He still has upside and is actually already a pretty impactful player. The Knicks need what he brings to the table.

Straight to the "Dream" school for this one.

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Kenyon martin was a dominant college basketball player on both ends. He showed up every game and dominated

that is the most ridiculous statement from you yet.

Kenyon averaged 19, 10, and almost 4 blocks a game as a senior. He was player of the year. Stein ad a good career but it wasn't close to what Kenyon did.

12 points and 7 rebounds in the nba and horrific shooting.

good defender, TERRIBLE offensive player.

He looked like a guy that was going to put up 16 and 8 for 8-10 years prior to his first micro fracture surgery.

his WS48 is a very measly .100 for his career. the only thing that he could do was play defense.

You realize he said dominant college player? Why are you citing his NBA stats?

good point ... missed that :-)

so used to his wild declarations

Its OK reinman you're incredible insight to this forum is truly appreciated by everyone!