BRIGGS wrote:Some of you dudes are going to have a heart attack when you find out WCS is a glorified role player who doesnt bring it all the time.

You need to stop! So far WCS has been doing everything he needed to do in order to show he is more than what people may have thought. With regard to his concentration level I think he'll be much more focused in our system which won't ignore him. He'll be totally involved and that will prevent lapses he may have had in the past.

With regard to this idea that he's a role player, well that role is a really important role in today's NBA. His strength is shutting down PnR and being able to slow down penetration and guard smaller players out in space. All of those things are exactly what you need against the offense teams are playing. We could build a team capable of slowing down what all these teams want to do. You may undervalue that ability but it's a very big deal.

I'm hoping we can land WCS. What he does he can bring every night regardless of what he does on offense. He doesn't need the ball in order to have a huge impact. He was a plus player even without being given a lot of touches on offense. Those are all huge benefits.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Some of you dudes are going to have a heart attack when you find out WCS is a glorified role player who doesnt bring it all the time.

You need to stop! So far WCS has been doing everything he needed to do in order to show he is more than what people may have thought. With regard to his concentration level I think he'll be much more focused in our system which won't ignore him. He'll be totally involved and that will prevent lapses he may have had in the past.

With regard to this idea that he's a role player, well that role is a really important role in today's NBA. His strength is shutting down PnR and being able to slow down penetration and guard smaller players out in space. All of those things are exactly what you need against the offense teams are playing. We could build a team capable of slowing down what all these teams want to do. You may undervalue that ability but it's a very big deal.

I'm hoping we can land WCS. What he does he can bring every night regardless of what he does on offense. He doesn't need the ball in order to have a huge impact. He was a plus player even without being given a lot of touches on offense. Those are all huge benefits.

Most NBA post players are going to outweigh WCS and take advantage of his weak base. If you watch Kentucky you will notice how easily smaller player are able to drive him out of position(hence the rebounding totals being some what smallish for a guy just focused on rebounding) There are pluses and minuses of WCS he's going to be wait and see project player. I think hes going to be much more of a workout warrior than any type of material basketball player--going by his CBB games.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Some of you dudes are going to have a heart attack when you find out WCS is a glorified role player who doesnt bring it all the time.

You need to stop! So far WCS has been doing everything he needed to do in order to show he is more than what people may have thought. With regard to his concentration level I think he'll be much more focused in our system which won't ignore him. He'll be totally involved and that will prevent lapses he may have had in the past.

With regard to this idea that he's a role player, well that role is a really important role in today's NBA. His strength is shutting down PnR and being able to slow down penetration and guard smaller players out in space. All of those things are exactly what you need against the offense teams are playing. We could build a team capable of slowing down what all these teams want to do. You may undervalue that ability but it's a very big deal.

I'm hoping we can land WCS. What he does he can bring every night regardless of what he does on offense. He doesn't need the ball in order to have a huge impact. He was a plus player even without being given a lot of touches on offense. Those are all huge benefits.

Most NBA post players are going to outweigh WCS and take advantage of his weak base. If you watch Kentucky you will notice how easily smaller player are able to drive him out of position(hence the rebounding totals being some what smallish for a guy just focused on rebounding) There are pluses and minuses of WCS he's going to be wait and see project player. I think hes going to be much more of a workout warrior than any type of material basketball player--going by his CBB games.

I do think that he would be a good fit for Orlando, where he can team up with Vucevic like he did with Towns.

WaltLongmire wrote:

crzymdups wrote:It is sounding more and more like the Sixers may favor Mudiay. In which case we would get Okafor or Russell. You absolutely 100% have to take Okafor or Russell if they are there.

If Phil takes WCS over Russell, I'll puke.. And I love WCS.

Yet you also hear that OK4 is liked by Saunders more than Towns.

Hard to believe anything you hear at this point.

I've heard Minny linked to OK$ and Porzingis, as well as the presumptive #1, Towns.

LA linked to Russell or Mudiay

Philly linked to Russell and Mudiay, and Hinkie has seen Porzingis overseas

I've heard "Sources say the Knicks like" attached to more guys than I feel like putting down right now.

I want some reliable sources telling how individual team workouts came out, and no stuff which comes from a kid's bloody agent.

You want a reliable source its going to be Chad Ford just seconds before the draft pick is announced. At that point you won't care. There are no reliable sources just a bunch of speculations. You can bet that the Knicks draft board will have the usual suspects on it.

H1AND1 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Some of you dudes are going to have a heart attack when you find out WCS is a glorified role player who doesnt bring it all the time.

I think a lot of people may overrate WCS as a prospect but I think you underrate him. There was an article posted in another thread that he ranks 2nd all time in defensive win shares among college players in the last couple decades. That's pretty impressive no matter how you slice it. All that being said I wouldn't want to draft WCS unless Towns, Russell, Okador, and even Mudiay or Winslow were off the board. I think the Knicks need to swing for the fences and try to nab a future star. WCS will be a terror on D but i dont think hell ever be more than a 9-10 ppg game player or someone other teams have to game plan for on offense.

if the Knicks had a pick in the second half of the lotto he'd make sense... but if he gets taken 4th?

H1AND1 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Some of you dudes are going to have a heart attack when you find out WCS is a glorified role player who doesnt bring it all the time.

I think a lot of people may overrate WCS as a prospect but I think you underrate him. There was an article posted in another thread that he ranks 2nd all time in defensive win shares among college players in the last couple decades. That's pretty impressive no matter how you slice it. All that being said I wouldn't want to draft WCS unless Towns, Russell, Okador, and even Mudiay or Winslow were off the board. I think the Knicks need to swing for the fences and try to nab a future star. WCS will be a terror on D but i dont think hell ever be more than a 9-10 ppg game player or someone other teams have to game plan for on offense.

Do you think that Dwight Howard was better then Stein the year he was drafted?

BRIGGS wrote:Some of you dudes are going to have a heart attack when you find out WCS is a glorified role player who doesnt bring it all the time.

On the flip side....you will get hit with a barrage of "I told you so" emails.....And this could be the down fall of your scouting credibility. The best you can do is slow down on the WCS hate, and let it play out.

Otherwise, you are just building your own rock that will eventually fall on you when Stein has the Garden rocking. Thats If we select him. Russell / Ok4 are still in play. Especially when Mudiay's video comes out and shows that he is an above average shooter....With good form. Him and his agent sees all the positive feedback on the current videos, highlighting their shooting touch. It's not hard to do the same with Mudiay, which will increase his value and even cause some WCS fans to change their minds. So it aint over until I hear her singing!

But you like so many other players, it's all a big set up.....Once Stein shines, all you will say is look at Kaminsky's one NBA game where he put up 20 and 10....or look who Stein was playing against. I think you will always be an offensive guy, but claim to like defense.

Moonangie wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:What everyone always says is that Defense wins Championships, but when it comes time to actually put that to the test, no one wants to actually go for the great defensive talent. Everyone gets excited by the prospect of a player that can score and they hope that player will be the next big thing. neither Russell nor Okafor would improve the Knicks defense one bit. Sure we'd score a bit more but not being able to stop the better teams would continue to haunt our post seasons for years.

We can always get scoring in Free Agency. The best defensive bigs won't be coming to NY in Free Agency and if they did it would be at a substantial cost. WCS solves that problem for years. Not only can we get scoring in FA but we can get additional 2 way players to make the WCS selection stand up even more. We could actually build one of the better defensive teams in the league. I know it would be the most unpopular move for Phil to make. It's just my personal feeling about it.

The difference is that Okafor and Russell are potentially transcendent offensive players who the Knicks can build their team around for years to come. They are the types of players you drop everything for and rethink your roster so you can build around them. Don't worry, there's about a one percent chance one of these two guys is there when we pick.

This ^^^

Drafting OK4 or Russell means we can aggressively shop Melo for additional picks and assets.

I don't think that's what it means. I don't think Melo is going anywhere.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Some of you dudes are going to have a heart attack when you find out WCS is a glorified role player who doesnt bring it all the time.

You need to stop! So far WCS has been doing everything he needed to do in order to show he is more than what people may have thought. With regard to his concentration level I think he'll be much more focused in our system which won't ignore him. He'll be totally involved and that will prevent lapses he may have had in the past.

With regard to this idea that he's a role player, well that role is a really important role in today's NBA. His strength is shutting down PnR and being able to slow down penetration and guard smaller players out in space. All of those things are exactly what you need against the offense teams are playing. We could build a team capable of slowing down what all these teams want to do. You may undervalue that ability but it's a very big deal.

I'm hoping we can land WCS. What he does he can bring every night regardless of what he does on offense. He doesn't need the ball in order to have a huge impact. He was a plus player even without being given a lot of touches on offense. Those are all huge benefits.

Brigg's,
Everyone has their own opinions and the truth is we have a lot of holes/needs to fill
Thing is how to catagorize the priority, as we all know we eventually NEED TOP TIER TALENT IN ORDER TO WIN A RING
I would say we need 2 players that are better than CA with some quality role players/2nd tier players, for the NYK's

Truth is I do not like WCS at 4 and I don't think most here like him at 4 with Kamisnki either
However, ONLY ONE of the posters here would have traded CA 2 years ago for the NEXT Dirk and the NEXT Nash
Which was, In YOUR OPINOIN, Kelly Olynicks and Nate Walters, to build a franchise around....
You were willing to trade CA for both those bench players and glorified them to be the NEXT HOF talent that you have the vision to see
EVERY MOVE YOU THINK, you say it as it is with 110% accuracy and the best possible move, while the moves changes every couple of days

Just on CA's contract alone, you went form WE MUST TRADE HIM to WE ARE BEST TO KEEP HIM, NO WAY WE CAN REPLACE HIS PRODUCTION, blah blah blah
You flip flipped over 10x on this one subject alone

You state 1million possible scenarios that even if 10 hit, SO WHAT?
You want to glorify yourself by reaching for a player that you know will be there 20 picks later, just to say, "I TOLD YOU SO"
Sometime in between these past couple of years, you have stopped evuluating talent, watching games, and basiing your opinions on BOXSCORES and HIGHLIGHTS
Using the information you want to your advantage but disregarding them when it doesn't favor your argument

You lose credibility and no one can take your thoughts seriously as you come up with the best possible scenario/player every couple of days...

You were one of the most respected ones here and it might sound like I am knocking you but I want you to realize the things that come out of your mouth sometimes
However, the past couple of years you seem to look to try to REACH and SHOW you can pick a dark horse to outbeat Vucevic, Bynum, and many other successfull posts that you have made in the past that many here do not know off

I get the Twovles trade you mentioned and I am surprised so many posters wouldn't even engage in it when Twolves are getting ripped off for the #4 pick that you suggest for all those players
And we still have about 30m, if you add in the FULL 6m MLE, in the process...
I think you are right about that Fuzaro kid and would like to take a chance on him but I wouldn't bank on him being my #1 PG alone

Many posters have been saying OK4 is closer to a Center but you kept putting him as a PF because you felt that he had an advantage there, which he can not defend in today's game for the most part
You value players that produce STATS and do not value players that do not produce STATS, well that isn't evaluating talent
Which was why you had Iman Shumpert as a D LEAGUE SCRUB....

Because Carroll was playing well, you would rather pay him a near MAX contract with little apart from Draymond Green despite Green being much younger and having a great impact on the game, leadership, ability to make others better

You were evaluating GS halfway in the season witout watching them play, you said you watched them play 4x, and it was all Curry/Klay THompson, while they are a GREAT DEFENSIVE TEAM and play great team ball
Instead of praising them, you took a stab at them when Memphis was up 2-1 in the series, implying GS can not win without a "pivot" which you deleted...

Yet Kanter is wortha MAX contract when the teams are focusing on Westbrook and they have the BIGS and talents that we do not have, the same reason why you say Draymond Green is role player for us and Kanter is a STAR without Westbrook and their BIGS in OKC

WCS might be a role player but he also can be an effective one as well, as he could be right between a YOUNG Tyson Chandler and could work hard on his athleticism like DeAndre Jordan did (another player you liked with McGee/Hibbert/Blatche that were in the same draft I believe...

I could think of a lot of ridiculous statements you have said like trading a TOP 3-5 pick for Greg Smith being the best player in the draft and we should trade our #1 pick easily for him, think it was Shumpert or Tim Hardaway JR's pick..

I do not mind if you are wrong but you say every move you state is the 1000% best thing with complete tunnel vision
I told you multiple times you could not offer a no trade clause for Ernes Kanter yet you kept bringing it up because OKC will not match it, which they traded a 1st rounder to acquire
But Draymond Green wasn't worth it and their payroll is much higher than OKC's, yet they surely will match Green's

You give crap about giving Cleveland the Championship with Iman/JR Smith but you took huge dumps on them while they were here...

IMO,
I still enjoy reading your posts and thoughts from time to time but the past 2 years it really seeems like you are trying to outdue your previous "hits" rather than actually evaluating talent

GL, I know you like doing this as a hobby and it is unlikely you will read this essay but I hope at some point THE REAL BRIGGS that I have read for over a decade will come back

BRIGGS wrote:Some of you dudes are going to have a heart attack when you find out WCS is a glorified role player who doesnt bring it all the time.

I'm having a heart attack right now about the fact that you can see the future.