crzymdups wrote:

blkexec wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:There are still franchise potential guys available at 4. You don't trade down to minimize your chance at a franchise talent. We are desperate for a franchise changing player (who can eventually take over for Melo).

Knix the GS Warriors built their team on (2) 7 picks an 11 30 and 35.

It depends on the specifics of the deal but I agree with your approach. The same reason we want to trade down may be why other GMs won't want to trade up though

I think the attraction for WCS is going to be high. If I was the Knicks Id consider my position as number 1 in this draft and the compensation model that I agree with is the Chris Webber trade or close to it. Id stay tight too--Id be willing to pick WCS if I had multiple teams who wanted him and were just not coming up high enough--once hes on our team then he is truly our property. So lets ee who may want Mudiay or Stein and just how much they are willing to pay for him.

What if we could get WCS and Lawson.....pick Mudiay and trade him to denver. See the latest mock draft below......WCS goes to #7.

http://www.libertyballers.com/2015/6/1/8694611/lb-mock-draft-denver-nuggets-select-willie-cauley-stein-7th

Minnesota Timberwolves - Karl-Anthony Towns
Los Angeles Lakers - Jahlil Okafor
Philadelphia 76ers - D'Angelo Russell
New York Knicks - Emmanuel Mudiay
Orlando Magic - Mario Hezonja
Sacramento Kings - Justise Winslow
Denver Nuggets - Willie Cauley-Stein
Detroit Pistons - ???

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-turning-point-for-the-nuggets/

Even better.....Lawson....Farried. ....WCS

For

Mudiay and whatever it takes to make it work.

Fills multiple needs and still have cap room for a free agent splash....or save for next season.

WCS
Farried
Melo
Shved / Gallo
Lawson

WCS
Farried
Melo
Carrol
Lawson

Cant get any better than this.....Trading with Denver woukd be ideal. Assuming WCS isnt picked at 5 or 6.....if so, you still have Mudiay with superstar potential.

I would absolutely consider this trade... but I don't see Denver giving up Faried AND Lawson AND 7. If they did... that's a no brainer... though I don't think Stein makes it past Sacramento at 6.

Well.....if Mudiay has a good workout....and Farried / Lawson continue to voice their displeasure. Plus arent we saving the money by absorbing their contracts.....plus we have Thj to dangle and a trade exception. ....but this is the type of deals knicks are usually on the bad end.....now we can be on the good end on a trade for once......

I think Mudiay and WCS have the same ceiling. ....and Mudiay will be more valuable in Denvers system.

I don't like the idea of trading the pick for an established vet (plus a late pick), because we need the cap space,and a good, high picked player will be more cost effective.

Hopefully we won't have another season as bad as this for a while, it takes special skill to be as bad as we were. This is the highest pick we could have in years, so just take advantage of it.

I don't see a trade we could make with Denver that would guarantee we get WCS if he's who we want. I think Orlando could take WCS if he continues to look good offensively. Why risk it if you know you can just get the guy you want? The only safe deal is with Orlando. They're right behind us. If we can figure out who they want that could be a trade scenario which would guarantee us the ability to take who we want but also get some assets out of it.

holfresh wrote:We need starting NBA talent..We have one quality starter..We cannot afford to water down the talent going forward..We need quality not quantity...We have had teams with multiply players at the same talent plateau and it isn't a recipe for success..The higher the pick the better the opportunity for success...Phil better not screw this one up..

+1. We need to establish a core, then build from there, not do it backwards.

crzymdups wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Whatever our stance, the 4th pick is the prime one for attracting trade suitors- a ridiculous number of options and no clear certain player to be picked

This is a very good point - if some team is in love with say Mudiay or Winslow - they might feel they have to trade up to 4 to ensure they get their man.

That does give us a position of strength to deal from.

Not just those two- add in WCS, Kaminsky and Porz. Since the media has rumoured we take any and all of those players, any other teams who want any of those will be starting to sweat. Maybe the Knicks have actually gotten smart for a change and are actually leaking out all this BS.

holfresh wrote:Let's take a look at Kaminsky defense in the low post versus Okafor..The first two points and others, look where Okafor catches the ball and where he ends up taking the shot...This is Kaminsky vs. a college freshman..What happens against NBA players like Amare???

The thought of taking Kaminsky at 4 terrifies me. He can't play defense in the NBA. It's a more open court, a faster game, smaller paint area. He'll get eaten alive.

NardDogNation wrote:

Knixkik wrote:There are still franchise potential guys available at 4. You don't trade down to minimize your chance at a franchise talent. We are desperate for a franchise changing player (who can eventually take over for Melo).

How can you rile against the "starphuch" but then endorse the same concept in the draft? Better to trade down, especially given the Knicks drafting history, than risk drafting a bust. After all, there have been several stars drafted in recent years that have not been taken in the top 4 e.g. Stephen Curry (8th), Klay Thompson (11th), Paul George (11th), Rudy Gobert (26th), Jimmy Butler (30th), Nikola Mirotic (24th-ish), Nikola Vucevic (16th), etc. I think it's best to try and maximize our ability to find this type of player than to put all our eggs into one basket.

Take a deep breath. Very good NBA players get drafted all over the draft rankings but a LOT of luck and sometimes visionary scouting goes into that. Everybody can point to the lonely handful who do make it of the hundreds of good players who never make it. Statistically (and I know this is a hard thing for some to wrap their heads around) say that your chances at the very front of the draft to get a very good player are far and better than picking after say #5 AND the odds slide dramatically down the higher that draft number.

This is NOT about star-phukking at all. This is is just playing the odds. Now, if your argument is, "Who needs a superstar" there's a problem with your logic that nobody here can fix. This is all contingent on taking BPA. Drafting low for need is another really bad idea almost guaranteed to backfire from pressure, expectation, and more pressure.

To say "better trade down" is a bad idea - a really bad idea unless you are getting guaranteed a very desirable by-product. That's not to say we can't trade down. I'm sure we can. But it is not "better" in any sense of the word. It adds considerable risk.

I don't know why advocating filling the roster with tweeners is such a meme here. We do not have a wide open roster. We are solid in the backcourt, we have Melo and some great role players. If we land Carroll or Butler or Middleton, all things being equal we are playoff bound. This is not a bad team given the resources at our disposal.

Panic selling is just unwarranted.

H1AND1 wrote:If we trade this pick for Faried and Lawson it's a horrible move. Lawson is always injured and Faried is a good energy guy and rebounds guy and not much more. I would be very disappointed.

I know this team has many holes and many needs but man I would be disappointed if we traded the pick. At some frigging point we have to develop some internal talent. Take a shot at 4 and try and get a star or at least a very good player. Stars and solid starters get drafted in the middle of the lottery every year. I'm
Not sure I can handle a trade of this pick unless it's a major major haul. Lawson's injured azz would be a huge SNORE.

I don't think nobody will argue that. But I would say, if you can get a star, with vets or a pick, it's a no brainer. And at 4, with so many options to choose, the chances of getting a star becomes less in a 3 star draft. There will be stars all over the 1st round. You have to trust your scouting report!

CrushAlot wrote:A celtic blog is speculating that the Celtics might give up Olynk, 16, and 28 or 33 to move up to 8 to get Stein. Not sure that this is enough for the 4 pick but it is a place to start.
http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/28/8634713/the-boston-celtics-have-more-than-enough-assets-to-move-into-the-blatter-fiba-2015-nba-draft-lottery

When it comes to the Celtics they have 11 first rounders between 2015 - 2018. Any trade with them should include a few future first rounders. They could move up 8 spots but its going to take more than Olynk and 2 first rounders in this years draft. Especially when everyone knows they are looking to move Olynk before FA to make a legit run at Kevin Love going to Boston.