WaltLongmire wrote:Actually think the Russell results are the most intriguing.

If you remember, Curry was considered to be a less than wonderful athlete until the pre-draft measurements, at which point he impressed people at the combine, and started being looked at differently.

If the Lakers take him at #2, I can't see Philly going big, especially if Mudiay's workouts are good. We can then pick up OK4 if he impresses.

But now does the question of if we'd take WCS even over OK4 start if WCS keeps impressing in workouts and in his workout for us because Phil wants a big man that can play defense??

JesseDark wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:The thing that negates Larry Browns praise is the fact he pushed for and praised Steve Francis back in 2006

the thing that negates Larry Brown praise is that he is more interested in pulling a juice card than actually recognizing and respecting potential.

Don't forget Larry Brown had Detroit pick Darko over Melo. Maybe the way to go is find out what he wants to do and do the opposite.

It's so easy for people to look at the Darko pick and call it a bad pick after the fact but I'm pretty sure you won't find many if any GM's that thought Darko would be a bust before the draft. There's still a part of judging how these kids will be at the next level that NOBODY can predict and that's if they have what it takes mentally to make it in the NBA. There's been hundreds of players that plenty of people thought would be good/great in the NBA but didn't end up making it. All we can do is go by what we see in their games and on tape but we can't judge how strong they are mentally.

newyorker4ever wrote:

JesseDark wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:The thing that negates Larry Browns praise is the fact he pushed for and praised Steve Francis back in 2006

the thing that negates Larry Brown praise is that he is more interested in pulling a juice card than actually recognizing and respecting potential.

Don't forget Larry Brown had Detroit pick Darko over Melo. Maybe the way to go is find out what he wants to do and do the opposite.

It's so easy for people to look at the Darko pick and call it a bad pick after the fact but I'm pretty sure you won't find many if any GM's that thought Darko would be a bust before the draft. There's still a part of judging how these kids will be at the next level that NOBODY can predict and that's if they have what it takes mentally to make it in the NBA. There's been hundreds of players that plenty of people thought would be good/great in the NBA but didn't end up making it. All we can do is go by what we see in their games and on tape but we can't judge how strong they are mentally.

Theres no way of knowing if a player will be a bust or not.....Welcome to the analytic era.....this is why analytics is picking up steam. It provides bust insurance. ...more than what they had during Darkos draft. It might be better than a gut feel....but its not bust proof. But teams are using it which is why players will continue to move up and down mock drafts.

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Actually think the Russell results are the most intriguing.

If you remember, Curry was considered to be a less than wonderful athlete until the pre-draft measurements, at which point he impressed people at the combine, and started being looked at differently.

If the Lakers take him at #2, I can't see Philly going big, especially if Mudiay's workouts are good. We can then pick up OK4 if he impresses.

But now does the question of if we'd take WCS even over OK4 start if WCS keeps impressing in workouts and in his workout for us because Phil wants a big man that can play defense??

I don't see Phil passing on OK4 if he has the chance to get him.

I guess it depends on what Phil thinks will really mean the most to the potential of the Knicks. OK4 is so capable in the post and still has a ton of upside to round out the rest of his game. It's gonna come down to how Phil thinks OK4 can improve defensively at the next level.

WCS is clearly the top defensive big in terms of defending today's offenses. He may have more untapped offensive potential than many people thought. If WCS shows he's making very real progress offensively it makes it a much tougher call than you might think. WCS helps so much defensively that it makes up for his lack of scoring but if he actually can score at least at a functional level in the flow of the offense, that could be enough to push him over the top. See we can get a big that can post up at least close to what OK4 can do, but who are we going to get that can defend like WCS at his size? No one in Free Agency that we're likely to get.

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Actually think the Russell results are the most intriguing.

If you remember, Curry was considered to be a less than wonderful athlete until the pre-draft measurements, at which point he impressed people at the combine, and started being looked at differently.

If the Lakers take him at #2, I can't see Philly going big, especially if Mudiay's workouts are good. We can then pick up OK4 if he impresses.

But now does the question of if we'd take WCS even over OK4 start if WCS keeps impressing in workouts and in his workout for us because Phil wants a big man that can play defense??

I don't see Phil passing on OK4 if he has the chance to get him.

I like ok4 a lot....but if hes on the knicks....he will not be the focal point like in college. Can he impact the game with less touches? Not even Melo can do that. If melo didnt lead the league in shoot attempts....he wouldnt be a max player. Im not saying take WCS over Ok4.....but think about who impacts the game more with limited minutes....the only way a rookie will get major minutes and shot attempts if a team with no star or triangle system draft them. Ok4 on the knicks will look average vs ok4 on philly.....where he would be the go to guy......philly can always trade one of their bigs to make room. Hes not dropping to 4......But if WCS shows any kind of half court offense during workouts.....he will be the knicks pick at 4....him and winslow show similar highlights. ...both like to score close to the rim.....both have perimeter and shot blocking defense.....but WCS is 8inches taller.....and plays in a position of need.

blkexec wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Actually think the Russell results are the most intriguing.

If you remember, Curry was considered to be a less than wonderful athlete until the pre-draft measurements, at which point he impressed people at the combine, and started being looked at differently.

If the Lakers take him at #2, I can't see Philly going big, especially if Mudiay's workouts are good. We can then pick up OK4 if he impresses.

But now does the question of if we'd take WCS even over OK4 start if WCS keeps impressing in workouts and in his workout for us because Phil wants a big man that can play defense??

I don't see Phil passing on OK4 if he has the chance to get him.

I like ok4 a lot....but if hes on the knicks....he will not be the focal point like in college. Can he impact the game with less touches? Not even Melo can do that. If melo didnt lead the league in shoot attempts....he wouldnt be a max player. Im not saying take WCS over Ok4.....but think about who impacts the game more with limited minutes....the only way a rookie will get major minutes and shot attempts if a team with no star or triangle system draft them. Ok4 on the knicks will look average vs ok4 on philly.....where he would be the go to guy......philly can always trade one of their bigs to make room. Hes not dropping to 4......But if WCS shows any kind of half court offense during workouts.....he will be the knicks pick at 4....him and winslow show similar highlights. ...both like to score close to the rim.....both have perimeter and shot blocking defense.....but WCS is 8inches taller.....and plays in a position of need.

I honestly think that Okafor would start in NY and the Triangle with him and Melo would be pretty damn near great to watch... on offense.

I have no idea what the defense would look like.

I'm with you on WCS. He's the guy I'd probably take at 4 with a gun to my head. But if Okafor is there... I mean, I think you have to take him. That's a superstar at center who will anchor your team for the next 10-15 years. I think Okafor can score 25ppg in the NBA, maybe 30ppg. He's going to be a tough tough cover. Anthony Davis will eat him alive, maybe Towns (man, I wish we'd gotten to see Towns/Stein v Okafor), but I think the rest of the NBA will have a HARD time covering Okafor. A post center in the Triangle is hard to stop, particularly if he can pass, which Okafor can. I think Phil would've taken Okafor #1 overall, honestly, if he'd had the chance (I would have taken Towns, but I think Phil's preference was Okafor)

If Phil did nothing else, at least he could say - "hey, I got you guys Okafor."

I tend to think Okafor cannot possibly slip past 2. But if the Lakers are cool on him and hot on Mudiay, we should definitely talk trade with them.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/605471146985836544/photo/1

nixluva wrote:Some Porzingis info and commentary.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/605760619917258752

Phil Jackson might just get chased back to California from the Big Apple if he chooses Latvian big manCGgUo8-W8AEKjp0 Kristaps Porzingis with the No. 4 pick in the NBA Draft.

“Knicks fans will go ballistic if he’s taken especially because [Andrea] Bargnani is looked at as a bust but this kid’s 19, he’s 7-1 growing to 7-2, range out to three,” ESPN’s Fran Fraschilla recently told SNY.tv. “Incredible athlete, shot-blocker, but the big thing with him is going to be his strength early in his career.”

Still, after a workout Tuesday at Brooklyn Bridge Park, Porzingis said he would love to play for the Knicks.

“It would be amazing to play for the Knicks,” he told Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress.com, who attended the workout. “But happy to play in the NBA for any team.”

One thing that has made me warm a little to Porz is finding out his parents played ball and he was brought up with it- you can't teach passion and love for the game. He isn't just some tall guy who recently picked up a ball because he happened to be tall.