crzymdups wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:I actually do think Mudiay could play in the Triangle, but you would waste some of his ability, IMO. Winslow would fit fine.

Don't want to seem too trollish, but Kaminsky has more adaptability as a player than most others.

Can play in the Triangle or be a stretch 4 if and when our offensive philosophy changes. He has some moves in the post and can also pass the ball. Also provides some rebounding and shot blocking ability, although they are not at top of the class levels.

Not sure you would ever take Lyles at 4 before Kaminsky.

Lets face it- Phil did not get around much this year, so at this point he is not going to have a lot of players he can speak about.

This is the problem with having a part-time GM. Other guys are working around the clock 24/7/365, who knows what the heck Phil is doing right now? I honestly think he's probably put in less thought to this draft than some of us have.

I'm fine to take Kaminsky if we trade down get another asset. Hence my Lance Stephenson post. The trade gives us Kaminsky, Stephenson, pick 39 and we still have $26M in cap room and I think it's a fair-ish trade that Charlotte would actually listen to.

Pick 4 has some value in this draft, more value than 9 certainly, but not a ton - a lot of people view this as a three player draft. You have to find a team that truly covets Winslow or Mudiay in the 8-11 range to get good value in a trade IMHO.

Of course, I think it could be a massive mistake to not just take Winslow or Mudiay, but again, I think a fair amount of us agree that Phil is dead set on proving the Triangle works which has led to things like the obsession with Monroe, the uneven trades to rid the roster of Chandler, Shumpert, Smith, etc.

I think you have to remember that Phil isn't doing this alone. He has trusted scouts. In particular Clarence Gaines Jr. who knows exactly what players are best suited to what Phil needs. Mark Warkentien has built NBA teams before and won an Executive of the Year award. Mark is the one that 1st hired Dean Oliver who is the Godfather of NBA analytics. There is a lot that goes into this and I can tell you that Phil is probably well informed about players including foreign players.

You're talking about a man with a huge ego that cares what people think about him. He's not going to go into this not giving himself the best chance for success. How competitive do you think Phil is when he's only really known winning?

Phil doesn't have to "prove" the Triangle works. That has been settled already. What he knows best in terms of team make up is the Triangle and it only makes sense that he would build a team based on those principles. Sound basketball principles of well rounded players who are team oriented and have multiple skills. This is no different than what the Spurs look for. The exact same kind of players they look for is what also works for Phil.

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

I think you have to remember that Phil isn't doing this alone. He has trusted scouts. In particular Clarence Gaines Jr. who knows exactly what players are best suited to what Phil needs. Mark Warkentien has built NBA teams before and won an Executive of the Year award. Mark is the one that 1st hired Dean Oliver who is the Godfather of NBA analytics. There is a lot that goes into this and I can tell you that Phil is probably well informed about players including foreign players.

You're talking about a man with a huge ego that cares what people think about him. He's not going to go into this not giving himself the best chance for success. How competitive do you think Phil is when he's only really known winning?

Phil doesn't have to "prove" the Triangle works. That has been settled already. What he knows best in terms of team make up is the Triangle and it only makes sense that he would build a team based on those principles. Sound basketball principles of well rounded players who are team oriented and have multiple skills. This is no different than what the Spurs look for. The exact same kind of players they look for is what also works for Phil.

I think if it'd been settled, Phil wouldn't have come out of retirement. In his mind, I think he has to prove it. Hence his tweets chiding the new sabremetrics people and the 3pt shot and invoking basketball gods.

He thinks there is a right way to do things and I think that is his main objective - he wants the Knicks to win, but it has to be his way to prove he's right and the game hasn't evolved to the point where the Triangle isn't the most effective system.

That's a part of it but it ignores the bigger challenge of actually building a franchise from his own vision which actually goes beyond the Triangle. There's more to Phil's vision on things than the Triangle. The Triangle is just one means by which he feels he can get to a more team oriented and selfless style of ball. It's a means to an end and the THE END itself. He had his beliefs before he even learned the Triangle. When he was with the Albany Patroons he ran a Flex Offense because he felt the players needed a structure to base off of. Of course we know he came from the very team oriented tho systemless Red Holzman school of thought. It's not about the Triangle being the most "effective system". He has admitted that it's not the most efficient offense you could run but he is looking for more than just raw efficiency. He's also looking for a system that works well even in the crucible of the playoffs.

More importantly since Phil has spent so much time with the Triangle he knows it best and he knows how to build a team that can win based on the structure of the Triangle. So of course that is the direction he's going to go in. Like I said the same kind of players who can thrive with the Spurs would work well in the Triangle. All the Triangle is, is a Flow Offense. There are other Flow Offenses. You want and need players with good overall skills and a willing spirit. Players have to be a bit more patient at times in the half court part of the offense, but the offense actually starts with pushing the ball and looking for early offense and not just the structured half court set.

Phil has said that the Triangle isn't the ONLY way to win, it's just a way to win. There are other ways to win in basketball. He doesn't like an offense that is purely 4 out 1 in with no post option. GS has unreal 3pt shooting which is not easily replicated. They also aren't purely a spread High PnR team. They do have a mix of other principles that make it work. Even Houston has a post presence. So he's not against that at all. It's hard to really get a full expression of what Phil is talking about when he tweets. Obviously he's always had great 3pt shooters so he's not anti 3pt'ers. He just prefers Post and Motion offense, attacking the basket.