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The case for Monroe
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nixluva
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5/30/2015  12:21 PM
smackeddog wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Greg Monroe is sort of the interior version of Andrea Bargnani So the points should be a little more consistent and hes a very solid rebounder. But he will give back in gains with slow court movements up and down and playing against other smaller C's especially who simply can go right around him.

Except he is an exceptional rebounder and good passer whereas Barg is neither of those. Monroe averaged 10 rpg next to Drummond. He'll probably get 12 per game in NY, and average 4 assists with the way the offense runs thru the high post. He could be a 18/12/4 and 50% player here next season.

Yep the Bargs comparison is ridiculous- he's like Bargs except consistent and good at rebounding and doesn't shoot. WTF?!

When you come into a discussion Biased, then you spout things not based on facts but emotions. I'm glad there are more of us who see that Monroe would be a worthy FA option. IMO he represents stability at the PF/C spot. You know what you're gonna get from him and that is important. We didn't have any consistent big men and it was a problem. Having a player like Monroe gives the team one less thing to worry about. Also I posted the videos above to show that he does have the ability to raise his level of play and have some outstanding performances. It's not all pedestrian ho hum stuff.

AUTOADVERT
Knicks1969
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5/30/2015  1:03 PM
A combo of Monroe, Melo, and High motor player like draymond Green or Stein could prove to be a good winning formula.
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
nixluva
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5/30/2015  1:10 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:A combo of Monroe, Melo, and High motor player like draymond Green or Stein could prove to be a good winning formula.

I'm pretty sure that's the plan. Then you add a wing like DeMarre Carroll and you should have a pretty good rotation.

smackeddog
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5/30/2015  1:19 PM
I still think people re overestimating Monroe's salary- if the Lakers draft a C, I don't see many teams out there who would give Monroe the max. No need to bid against ourselves, if we decide we want him.
Vmart
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5/30/2015  2:01 PM
nixluva wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:A combo of Monroe, Melo, and High motor player like draymond Green or Stein could prove to be a good winning formula.

I'm pretty sure that's the plan. Then you add a wing like DeMarre Carroll and you should have a pretty good rotation.

WCS is not in the plan. That would be disastrous move on the Knicks part. Phil won't go for a center without offense he is looking for a two way player. Why do you think Chandler got shipped out he just didn't bring any offense to the table. People need to move in from this silly notion of WCS. Why on earth would you pick him in the top portion of the first round. WCS is a project low first round possibly second rounder by the time draft day rolls around.

nixluva
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5/30/2015  2:41 PM
Vmart wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:A combo of Monroe, Melo, and High motor player like draymond Green or Stein could prove to be a good winning formula.

I'm pretty sure that's the plan. Then you add a wing like DeMarre Carroll and you should have a pretty good rotation.

WCS is not in the plan. That would be disastrous move on the Knicks part. Phil won't go for a center without offense he is looking for a two way player. Why do you think Chandler got shipped out he just didn't bring any offense to the table. People need to move in from this silly notion of WCS. Why on earth would you pick him in the top portion of the first round. WCS is a project low first round possibly second rounder by the time draft day rolls around.

You pick WCS because he's a rare defensive specialist with outstanding quickness, agility, athletic ability and he's 7' tall. WCS is not a project on defense which is the main reason he'd be drafted. Phil has said they want a Tyson Chandler like big that can defend PnR and the Rim. WCS is even quicker and more agile than Tyson. Based on what Phil has said WCS could be the perfect defensive big for this team.

The NBA isn't the NCAA. There's more space and way more possessions in the NBA. Phil and Fish will be able to figure out how to get WCS easy scoring opps at the rim in addition to put backs and fast break opps. He's gonna be able to score enough points to stay on the floor. It's all about Ball and Player movement in this system. He doesn't have to be a highly skilled offensive player in order to have an impact. In this offense you need to be able to move which WCS is very capable of doing. WCS actually does have the ability to hit a mid range jumper and he has a Jump Hook. With more work he may be able to further develop those parts of his game.

Vmart
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5/30/2015  2:50 PM
nixluva wrote:
Vmart wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:A combo of Monroe, Melo, and High motor player like draymond Green or Stein could prove to be a good winning formula.

I'm pretty sure that's the plan. Then you add a wing like DeMarre Carroll and you should have a pretty good rotation.

WCS is not in the plan. That would be disastrous move on the Knicks part. Phil won't go for a center without offense he is looking for a two way player. Why do you think Chandler got shipped out he just didn't bring any offense to the table. People need to move in from this silly notion of WCS. Why on earth would you pick him in the top portion of the first round. WCS is a project low first round possibly second rounder by the time draft day rolls around.

You pick WCS because he's a rare defensive specialist with outstanding quickness, agility, athletic ability and he's 7' tall. WCS is not a project on defense which is the main reason he'd be drafted. Phil has said they want a Tyson Chandler like big that can defend PnR and the Rim. WCS is even quicker and more agile than Tyson. Based on what Phil has said WCS could be the perfect defensive big for this team.

The NBA isn't the NCAA. There's more space and way more possessions in the NBA. Phil and Fish will be able to figure out how to get WCS easy scoring opps at the rim in addition to put backs and fast break opps. He's gonna be able to score enough points to stay on the floor. It's all about Ball and Player movement in this system. He doesn't have to be a highly skilled offensive player in order to have an impact. In this offense you need to be able to move which WCS is very capable of doing. WCS actually does have the ability to hit a mid range jumper and he has a Jump Hook. With more work he may be able to further develop those parts of his game.

Nix you simply do not take a defensive specialist that high up. It is just not a good move it becomes a wasted pick at that point. You can find defensive specialists all over the place. It goes against all principles of the Chandler trade it actually would make Phil look really bad if he did draft WCS.

Knixkik
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5/30/2015  3:08 PM
And how about the fact that Monroe actually plays a full 82 game season each year. Doesn't get hurt almost ever. If we are going to pay max, that is an underrated factor no one seems to talk about. Durability is a key.
nixluva
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5/30/2015  3:47 PM
Vmart wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Vmart wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:A combo of Monroe, Melo, and High motor player like draymond Green or Stein could prove to be a good winning formula.

I'm pretty sure that's the plan. Then you add a wing like DeMarre Carroll and you should have a pretty good rotation.

WCS is not in the plan. That would be disastrous move on the Knicks part. Phil won't go for a center without offense he is looking for a two way player. Why do you think Chandler got shipped out he just didn't bring any offense to the table. People need to move in from this silly notion of WCS. Why on earth would you pick him in the top portion of the first round. WCS is a project low first round possibly second rounder by the time draft day rolls around.

You pick WCS because he's a rare defensive specialist with outstanding quickness, agility, athletic ability and he's 7' tall. WCS is not a project on defense which is the main reason he'd be drafted. Phil has said they want a Tyson Chandler like big that can defend PnR and the Rim. WCS is even quicker and more agile than Tyson. Based on what Phil has said WCS could be the perfect defensive big for this team.

The NBA isn't the NCAA. There's more space and way more possessions in the NBA. Phil and Fish will be able to figure out how to get WCS easy scoring opps at the rim in addition to put backs and fast break opps. He's gonna be able to score enough points to stay on the floor. It's all about Ball and Player movement in this system. He doesn't have to be a highly skilled offensive player in order to have an impact. In this offense you need to be able to move which WCS is very capable of doing. WCS actually does have the ability to hit a mid range jumper and he has a Jump Hook. With more work he may be able to further develop those parts of his game.

Nix you simply do not take a defensive specialist that high up. It is just not a good move it becomes a wasted pick at that point. You can find defensive specialists all over the place. It goes against all principles of the Chandler trade it actually would make Phil look really bad if he did draft WCS.


Phil himself said that he wanted a younger Tyson Chandler like big. Tyson was too old, making too much money, but what he brought to the defense was good. WCS is even more physically gifted than Tyson and he'll be cheap. His impact on this team's defense would be immense. You can't underestimate how WCS would improve the team's defense.

I also totally disagree with the idea that you can find a defender like WCS "all over the place". If that was the case the Knicks would already have a defensive big like WCS. There isn't a player like WCS in Free Agency either. Just cuz some guy is big and can block a shot doesn't make him the equal of what WCS gives you. He's a very rare player. WCS can guard on the perimeter and still cover the paint. That's a huge deal.

Also WCS is not a total zero on offense. He's been inconsistent but he's had some good performances. Part of the problem was the UK offense and the roster being so loaded with talent. There really aren't enough possessions in college nor enough minutes. It doesn't directly correlate to the NBA.

I think Monroe and WCS would be a good pair. I know some think that Monroe can't score away from the basket but in truth he won't really have to worry about that. The same goes for WCS. The way this offense works bigs are placed close to the basket and any defensive adjustment to deal with our wings will create a very easy lane to the rim. WCS doesn't have to be a post threat in order to be a threat near the basket. He can finish at the rim with just a little space if a defender isn't locked onto him the entire time. The player movement creates defensive shifts and that will allow WCS openings to get to the rim. When Monroe attacks the basket WCS will be there to help with an offensive rebound if needed.

NardDogNation
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5/30/2015  9:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/30/2015  9:05 PM
Has anyone stopped to consider that Greg Monroe could very well end up with the Pelicans? He and Davis are perfect fits for one another and I do believe that Monroe is a Louisana native. Needless to say, I don't think we can continue to presume that Monroe to the Knicks is a done deal or even likely.
FistOfOakley
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5/30/2015  9:35 PM
pelicans are over the cap so unless it's a sign and trade it's unlikely he goes there...

monroe's young.. he's not perfect but if he was.. he wouldn't be available...

NardDogNation
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5/30/2015  9:45 PM
FistOfOakley wrote:pelicans are over the cap so unless it's a sign and trade it's unlikely he goes there...

monroe's young.. he's not perfect but if he was.. he wouldn't be available...

If the cap remains the same, they should still have about $7 million in cap space and can easily create max money for Monroe by dumping Pondexter and renouncing Norris Cole's rights.

ramtour420
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5/30/2015  9:58 PM
FistOfOakley wrote:pelicans are over the cap so unless it's a sign and trade it's unlikely he goes there...

monroe's young.. he's not perfect but if he was.. he wouldn't be available...


I thought you could no longer do sign and trades?
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
yellowboy90
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5/30/2015  10:36 PM
The only way I am cool with WCS is if Kevin Love has given Phil a hand shake promise. WCS and Monroe is too crowded. Love and WCS makes much more sense.
FistOfOakley
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5/30/2015  10:46 PM
ramtour420 wrote:I thought you could no longer do sign and trades?

you can still do sign and trades but you can't do a sign and trade for a 5yr max deal... you can only do a 4yr max deal..

blkexec
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5/30/2015  10:51 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/30/2015  10:52 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:The only way I am cool with WCS is if Kevin Love has given Phil a hand shake promise. WCS and Monroe is too crowded. Love and WCS makes much more sense.

Agree....Never been a Monroe fan. Signing him reminds me when we SETTLED with Amari....after missing out on James. Signing Monroe after missing out on Towns. We need to learn from our past and not settle just because he likes the knicks. Would you settle down with a chick just because she like you? I don't see what he adds as amax player that you cant get from other cheaper options. Like another pick to grab a big later in the first.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
nixluva
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5/30/2015  11:10 PM
blkexec wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:The only way I am cool with WCS is if Kevin Love has given Phil a hand shake promise. WCS and Monroe is too crowded. Love and WCS makes much more sense.

Agree....Never been a Monroe fan. Signing him reminds me when we SETTLED with Amari....after missing out on James. Signing Monroe after missing out on Towns. We need to learn from our past and not settle just because he likes the knicks. Would you settle down with a chick just because she like you? I don't see what he adds as amax player that you cant get from other cheaper options. Like another pick to grab a big later in the first.

Monroe isn't settling. He was likely in the plans no matter who we took with the exception of Okafor. If it was Towns, Russell, Mudiay, Winslow... Monroe would be a likely target.

With regard to playing WCS and Monroe, it's not that big of a deal. People keep saying there will be congestion which indicates to me that a lot of us still don't understand how the Triangle works. There will be no congestion with 2 post players. The Base Half Court set always has 2 post players. The PF and C are always on opposite sides of the paint. In the Triangle the spacing is a big key to how it works.

Both bigs are in a position that if the ball is rotated you can form a triangle on either side of the floor if you want to. All it takes is for the PG to run baseline to the opposite side and you have a new Triangle. One Big is in the strong side Triangle and the other is in the Pinch Post on the opposite side of the paint. Both are within range of the basket, but in the Pinch Post you can work a 2 Man game with the 2nd Guard. That side of the floor is wide open. You can work PnR, Give and Go or just ISO the big after the guard cuts thru.

FistOfOakley
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5/30/2015  11:19 PM
one of the reasons why post play is diminishing is that they front the post guy with the big on the other side hovering just outside the paint.... it makes for a very tough entry pass and a pretty tough shot for any big even if the pass comes through...

so that's why you need your center camped out on the weakside corner ready to spot up to prevent that...

nixluva
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5/30/2015  11:37 PM
FistOfOakley wrote:one of the reasons why post play is diminishing is that they front the post guy with the big on the other side hovering just outside the paint.... it makes for a very tough entry pass and a pretty tough shot for any big even if the pass comes through...

so that's why you need your center camped out on the weakside corner ready to spot up to prevent that...

The thing about the Triangle is it's flexible enough that if you see a team is trying to front the post with backside help you can easily rotate the ball and form a Triangle on the opposite side. It's very hard to stop the post in the Triangle because there are 2 posts and a very short pass gets you to another post option pretty quickly. That's why it was hard to stop the Lakers from posting when they had Bynum and Pau. You front Pau and it's a quick reverse of the ball back to the top and you can feed Bynum on the opposite side.

yellowboy90
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5/31/2015  12:09 AM
nixluva wrote:
blkexec wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:The only way I am cool with WCS is if Kevin Love has given Phil a hand shake promise. WCS and Monroe is too crowded. Love and WCS makes much more sense.

Agree....Never been a Monroe fan. Signing him reminds me when we SETTLED with Amari....after missing out on James. Signing Monroe after missing out on Towns. We need to learn from our past and not settle just because he likes the knicks. Would you settle down with a chick just because she like you? I don't see what he adds as amax player that you cant get from other cheaper options. Like another pick to grab a big later in the first.

Monroe isn't settling. He was likely in the plans no matter who we took with the exception of Okafor. If it was Towns, Russell, Mudiay, Winslow... Monroe would be a likely target.

With regard to playing WCS and Monroe, it's not that big of a deal. People keep saying there will be congestion which indicates to me that a lot of us still don't understand how the Triangle works. There will be no congestion with 2 post players. The Base Half Court set always has 2 post players. The PF and C are always on opposite sides of the paint. In the Triangle the spacing is a big key to how it works.

Both bigs are in a position that if the ball is rotated you can form a triangle on either side of the floor if you want to. All it takes is for the PG to run baseline to the opposite side and you have a new Triangle. One Big is in the strong side Triangle and the other is in the Pinch Post on the opposite side of the paint. Both are within range of the basket, but in the Pinch Post you can work a 2 Man game with the 2nd Guard. That side of the floor is wide open. You can work PnR, Give and Go or just ISO the big after the guard cuts thru.

That diagram is so pretty, It makes me wonder how the knicks were a lotto team but anyway, show me that diagram with Melo in the post.

The case for Monroe

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