BRIGGS wrote:

Does this look like a non athlete poor defender?

Also real numbers

last 2 years

each player had similar avg minutes

Kaminsky rebounds 560 Blocked shots 123 steals 60
Stein rebounds 476 Blocked shots 173 steals 91

No one is saying Kaminsky isn't a good player. I like Kaminsky. If we had him i'm sure he'd play great. My take on this is that we need to form an identity based on Defense. IMO to start that process we need a great defensive talent. Once you have that player you can build a great defense around him. Every good defender you add after having a player like WCS makes the defense better and better. You build your house on the foundation of a great defender like WCS and then add 2 way wings and we'd be set.

Phil loves long athletic players who get after it. He just needs a defensive anchor who can move sideline to sideline and shutdown PnR Penetration or defend a guard if he gets stuck in space on defense. A player like WCS makes the whole team better defensively. They have to cover less space with his ability to help and recover. I don't care if we trade down to get WCS. I just hope we get him.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Does this look like a non athlete poor defender?

Also real numbers

last 2 years

each player had similar avg minutes

Kaminsky rebounds 560 Blocked shots 123 steals 60
Stein rebounds 476 Blocked shots 173 steals 91

No one is saying Kaminsky isn't a good player. I like Kaminsky. If we had him i'm sure he'd play great. My take on this is that we need to form an identity based on Defense. IMO to start that process we need a great defensive talent. Once you have that player you can build a great defense around him. Every good defender you add after having a player like WCS makes the defense better and better. You build your house on the foundation of a great defender like WCS and then add 2 way wings and we'd be set.

Phil loves long athletic players who get after it. He just needs a defensive anchor who can move sideline to sideline and shutdown PnR Penetration or defend a guard if he gets stuck in space on defense. A player like WCS makes the whole team better defensively. They have to cover less space with his ability to help and recover. I don't care if we trade down to get WCS. I just hope we get him.

Phil has been pretty much wrong with everything he has done so far--what will change now? I mean think about it---defense is based on the perimeter. And what was Phil's great move to improve our perimeter trade for Jose Calderon undersized Shane Larkin and drafted poorly with 3 picks.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Does this look like a non athlete poor defender?

Also real numbers

last 2 years

each player had similar avg minutes

Kaminsky rebounds 560 Blocked shots 123 steals 60
Stein rebounds 476 Blocked shots 173 steals 91

No one is saying Kaminsky isn't a good player. I like Kaminsky. If we had him i'm sure he'd play great. My take on this is that we need to form an identity based on Defense. IMO to start that process we need a great defensive talent. Once you have that player you can build a great defense around him. Every good defender you add after having a player like WCS makes the defense better and better. You build your house on the foundation of a great defender like WCS and then add 2 way wings and we'd be set.

Phil loves long athletic players who get after it. He just needs a defensive anchor who can move sideline to sideline and shutdown PnR Penetration or defend a guard if he gets stuck in space on defense. A player like WCS makes the whole team better defensively. They have to cover less space with his ability to help and recover. I don't care if we trade down to get WCS. I just hope we get him.

Phil has been pretty much wrong with everything he has done so far--what will change now? I mean think about it---defense is based on the perimeter. And what was Phil's great move to improve our perimeter trade for Jose Calderon undersized Shane Larkin and drafted poorly with 3 picks.

OK he had a bad start to his rookie GM year. I think once he made the trade he was on the right track and probably much more clear on what he needed to do. He realized the patchwork stuff wasn't going to work and was a mistake. I don't think it was a smooth start but I think he has his bearings now.

So let's look at what Phil is actually proposing.

“Gotta have a defender,” Jackson said. “… That’s a good starting point — a guy like Tyson Chandler (whom the Knicks traded over the summer) is the defensive backup that we have to have. In this day and age in our game, there are so many screen and rolls, so many 3-point shooters, so many things that a player of size has to (do). Not only cover the paint and protect the basket but he has to be able to step out defensively and play a guard. And do some defensive work on the extreme part of the floor so it’s very important that that player have defensive capabilities.”

However, Jackson has told several associates that he admires Cauley-Stein, an athletic big man who has drawn favorable comparisons to Chicago’s Joakim Noah, a former Defensive Player of the Year and All-Star. Last summer, Jackson traded Tyson Chandler to Dallas and later said the Knicks need to find a player who does the things that Chandler does. That’s Cauley-Stein.

Kentucky big men have fared well in the NBA, and Cauley-Stein would be an upgrade to a weak Knicks front line. Is he an All-Star? Maybe. A future MVP? That may be reaching just a bit. But a star is out there somewhere.

Jackson said that taking a big man in the draft is a "priority" because he'd like to improve the Knicks' defense.

Like I said hes been pretty good at spotting raw offensive players which should work well in the NBA

callmened wrote:of course he will make a player like monroe better...but i doubt the knicks take kaminsky over mudiay

DRummond Monroe won 25 games and Drummond is an all star and they have good guards/ with a good coach. The Knicks remind me of a gambler who wants to get it all back in one bet. Id rather be patient build the right way--follow what the Spurs/Warriors do. They just want to satisfy the idiot Dolan and sad to say we will never seen a championship in our middle aged lifetimes. Im not even sure Id get Monroe--its just that I think its a done deal.

BRIGGS wrote:

callmened wrote:of course he will make a player like monroe better...but i doubt the knicks take kaminsky over mudiay

DRummond Monroe won 25 games and Drummond is an all star and they have good guards/ with a good coach. The Knicks remind me of a gambler who wants to get it all back in one bet. Id rather be patient build the right way--follow what the Spurs/Warriors do. They just want to satisfy the idiot Dolan and sad to say we will never seen a championship in our middle aged lifetimes. Im not even sure Id get Monroe--its just that I think its a done deal.

exactly man. im not even the biggest fan of Monroe but it looks like a done deal. he will score the quietest 17&9 ever. Monroe doesnt scream out "HERE COMES A CHAMPIONSHIP TO NY"

BRIGGS wrote:

callmened wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

callmened wrote:of course he will make a player like monroe better...but i doubt the knicks take kaminsky over mudiay

DRummond Monroe won 25 games and Drummond is an all star and they have good guards/ with a good coach. The Knicks remind me of a gambler who wants to get it all back in one bet. Id rather be patient build the right way--follow what the Spurs/Warriors do. They just want to satisfy the idiot Dolan and sad to say we will never seen a championship in our middle aged lifetimes. Im not even sure Id get Monroe--its just that I think its a done deal.

exactly man. im not even the biggest fan of Monroe but it looks like a done deal. he will score the quietest 17&9 ever. Monroe doesnt scream out "HERE COMES A CHAMPIONSHIP TO NY"

I think they made a couple of good moves in Galloway and Shvyed(if we keep him) other than that I dont completely understand what they are doing. Itsa perimeter based league you need good perimeter defenders and the first big move we make is Jose Calderon? And why didnt we be more fierce about getting MORE for TYson JR and Iman? Our best deal was trading Pablo--we actually got value--we won that trade. What exactly was Cleveland going to do--so they say no--ok either give us the 2016 #1 pick for two NBA starters or we pass Y N take it leave it ok leave it fine. What would be the change?
We pay a PREMIUM to get rid of players EVERY single time and its killed us.

All that matters now is what moves Phil makes from here. Make the right pick in the draft. Make the right Free Agent signings. If there are any deals to be made, they have to be the right moves. It's all about the moves Phil makes from here. He's got all he needs to improve this team and set it on a new direction. Phil knows what he wants that team to look like and how he wants it to perform. It's totally in his hands to build the team the way he wants.

codeunknown wrote:Mudiay is the best probability pick at #4. Ideally at this point, the alternatives sought shouldn't be Kaminsky and Stein, but rather using Carmelo in a trade with the Lakers to get pick 2 or in a larger deal swapping our picks.

Boom! There it is. That's what we ought to be doing. Max value of the roster for a 5 year rebuild. Adding pieces to tinker with our defensive or offensive stats while building around Melo? Not a good idea.

BPA baby, all day. (Probably gwine be Mudiay, but maybe Russell or OK4)

codeunknown wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Mudiay is the best probability pick at #4. Ideally at this point, the alternatives sought shouldn't be Kaminsky and Stein, but rather using Carmelo in a trade with the Lakers to get pick 2 or in a larger deal swapping our picks.

Boom! There it is. That's what we ought to be doing. Max value of the roster for a 5 year rebuild. Adding pieces to tinker with our defensive or offensive stats while building around Melo? Not a good idea.

BPA baby, all day. (Probably gwine be Mudiay, but maybe Russell or OK4)

One possibility (assuming the Laker's wouldn't trade out) is Carmelo and the 4th pick for the 2nd pick, Nick Young, the 27th pick, and a future 1st rounder.

Although I'd prefer Carmelo and the 2017 1st rounder (top 8-10 protected) for the 2nd pick outright.

callmened wrote:Melo wont be traded folks. lol

Yes that is why in the first post the word used was "ideally."

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, based on our needs I'd take Kaminsky ahead of Mudiay too. I might take Winslow ahead of both but haven't decided. I think you're right that Kaminsky is the most ready of the 3. I still really want D Russell though.

Hes a tough guard. Greg Monroe would get space hes NEVER had in the NBA and the load would be taken off Melo which should allow for more efficient scoring and hopefully the dishing is contagious. The bigs could play off each other and melo would NEVER be double teamed. It would also open up penetrating lanes for the guards. I was just thinking if we took the better defenders and put him on Kaminsky--Dray Green--Green is 6-6 230 Kaminsky is 7-1 230 hes SEVEN inches taller. Hes going to be bale to post shoot or pass right over the top of almost any player in the NBA and if they put a bigger player--he uses the pump fake. Hes going to be a handful and I think with his mobility and passing skills teams cab be very creative.

Ignoring where the height of their heads stop, Dray Green has a 7'1 wingspan. Kaminsky is 6'11. Effective reach is less than Dray - and most other bigs. He is not easily shooting over any PF in this league.