Ultimateknicks.com Forums: Willie Stein weakness

All of these kids have weaknesses. i think everyone needs to distinguish between
1. the knicks shouldnt draft him at #4 and 2. WCS will not be a good NBA player

With the knicks need for a PG and the assumption that monroe is coming, drafting WCS would be a mistake. But whoever gets him, will get a very very talented prospect

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better

nixluva
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5/29/2015 12:15 AM

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Knicks don't need a PG as much as they need a defensive anchor like WCS. With this system you could find a good Combo guard that can do similar things to what Shved did, but with better D and that's pretty much all that's needed from that position. WCS provides a major boost to the teams overall defensive posture. People are underestimating the importance of that for this team. We can get scoring but there are so few defensive bigs with the talent WCS has that I feel he's exactly what we need.

Just for reference, in Tyson's 1st year here this team ended the year #5 in Defensive Efficiency. It shows just how much a great defensive big can mean to a team. If we added WCS and on top of that brought in a good defensive SG it would transform this team defensively. That would make a huge difference to this teams ability to win games.

BRIGGS
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5/29/2015 12:41 AM LAST EDITED: 5/29/2015 12:41 AM

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nixluva wrote:Knicks don't need a PG as much as they need a defensive anchor like WCS. With this system you could find a good Combo guard that can do similar things to what Shved did, but with better D and that's pretty much all that's needed from that position. WCS provides a major boost to the teams overall defensive posture. People are underestimating the importance of that for this team. We can get scoring but there are so few defensive bigs with the talent WCS has that I feel he's exactly what we need.
Just for reference, in Tyson's 1st year here this team ended the year #5 in Defensive Efficiency. It shows just how much a great defensive big can mean to a team. If we added WCS and on top of that brought in a good defensive SG it would transform this team defensively. That would make a huge difference to this teams ability to win games.

nixluva--our guards and our offense is just so speculative. I think its MORE important to find perimeter defense--guys who can defend the wings and PG straight up(but I want these guys to play BOTH ways). But I think this draft you can find players like Fuzaro Mickey and really a bunch more to be honest in rd 2(now can we get some additional picks and will we have a coach who will play them?). I want the BPA at 4. Is that Russell--is that Mudiay is that Kaminsky is that Winslow--We have a month to decide on that or even trade down. But my man you dont reach for a one way player AFTER we trade Tyson Chandler for NEGATIVE EQUITY. You are acting like Stein is the 2nd coming of Bill Russell which he is not. Nixluva in each year at Kentucky WCS ws NOT the BP on his own team? And he got play this year and Calipari really counted on him in the tournament and except for a few moments I think Stein was a bg let down. He was outplayed against ND and outplayed with Wisconsin.

NO team in the NBA has just a defensive player in the top 5. Willie Stein would have to give 10 points and 8-9 rebounds to start and he didnt do that in college. I would expect more from Stein right? Hes a junior. When ever good teams matched up with Kentucky WCS did not dominate the game LSU? both post players played VERY well---Kentucky did not plays well against the higher ranked teams and gosh they had 3 guys who ere near 7 feet guarding the basket on EVEY play.

RIP Crushalot😞

BRIGGS
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5/29/2015 1:01 AM LAST EDITED: 5/29/2015 1:22 AM

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Here s a good video and a great analysis of Towns Stein and Kaminsky.

First off I want to mention in this game Frank Kamnisky played a VERY solid game defensively. Look at the odds stacked against him and he simply held down the fort. To me that was the number 1 factor to this game. In some ways you can say Kamnisky played the best defense in that game out of all of them.

Ill go right to Stein and the guy says it perfectly--and if you saw the game you know ist true and really its a microcosm of his career.

Willie made a few VERY nice defensive plays he ALSO fell asleep on several plays did not rebound well and had no effect on the offense. Nixluva if you are having no effect on the offense--you better be fetching a HUGE amount of rebounds and taking NO plays off--thats fair right? In 3 years WCS was the same plays sans a few great games out of 110.

Some negatives with Towns in this game but it doesnt matter.

Watch Stein on the video at 1:38 fall asleep and allow Kaminsky to role to the hoop for a dunk.
He did not fight through a screen at 1:35 which allowed Kaminsky a good look at a 3.
Again at the 2:00 mark Stein gets caught in traffic and Kaminsky simply rolls into a lay up
Again 3:09 Stein lets Kaminsky go around him where he finds an open 3 point shooter
3:30 he bites on a pump fake but recovers
3:45 Kaminsky from the 3 pt line takes Stein right off the dribble right to the hole for an +1.
5:00 ANOTHER layup by Kaminsky on WCS on an easy move
5:35 and %:45 Kamnisnky pins Stein the passer missed him on this first one but the seodn one Kaminsky drove and got fouled for 2 FT's
On defense Wisconsin covered Stein with 6-5 Nigel hayes he did NOTHING all game
7:06 Willie Stein has been passed the ball--watch his indecision
7:33 watch Willie Stein NOT move on offense for 7 seconds
7:45 effort LESS play watch Stein give 0 effort for rebound
9;22 Stein WIDE open jump shot not even close
9:30 Nigel hayes moves Stein well out of play for offensive rebound Stein gives no effort none.
9:48 Stein takes an unbalanced poor form jumper WAY off doesnt crash the boards
10;00 WATCH closely Hayes at 6-5 pushes Stein 10 feet out of the play Stein gives no resistance
Ill stop here I noticed the ENTIRE tape that WCS played with VERY little passion he was outrmuscled horribly by a 6-5 player and gave no resistance. He made a few nice defensive plays but overall his effort was ABYSMAL

He is FAR FAR FAR from what is being depicted

RIP Crushalot😞

nixluva
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5/29/2015 1:43 AM

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BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:Knicks don't need a PG as much as they need a defensive anchor like WCS. With this system you could find a good Combo guard that can do similar things to what Shved did, but with better D and that's pretty much all that's needed from that position. WCS provides a major boost to the teams overall defensive posture. People are underestimating the importance of that for this team. We can get scoring but there are so few defensive bigs with the talent WCS has that I feel he's exactly what we need.
Just for reference, in Tyson's 1st year here this team ended the year #5 in Defensive Efficiency. It shows just how much a great defensive big can mean to a team. If we added WCS and on top of that brought in a good defensive SG it would transform this team defensively. That would make a huge difference to this teams ability to win games.
nixluva--our guards and our offense is just so speculative. I think its MORE important to find perimeter defense--guys who can defend the wings and PG straight up(but I want these guys to play BOTH ways). But I think this draft you can find players like Fuzaro Mickey and really a bunch more to be honest in rd 2(now can we get some additional picks and will we have a coach who will play them?). I want the BPA at 4. Is that Russell--is that Mudiay is that Kaminsky is that Winslow--We have a month to decide on that or even trade down. But my man you dont reach for a one way player AFTER we trade Tyson Chandler for NEGATIVE EQUITY. You are acting like Stein is the 2nd coming of Bill Russell which he is not. Nixluva in each year at Kentucky WCS ws NOT the BP on his own team? And he got play this year and Calipari really counted on him in the tournament and except for a few moments I think Stein was a bg let down. He was outplayed against ND and outplayed with Wisconsin.
NO team in the NBA has just a defensive player in the top 5. Willie Stein would have to give 10 points and 8-9 rebounds to start and he didnt do that in college. I would expect more from Stein right? Hes a junior. When ever good teams matched up with Kentucky WCS did not dominate the game LSU? both post players played VERY well---Kentucky did not plays well against the higher ranked teams and gosh they had 3 guys who ere near 7 feet guarding the basket on EVEY play.

You're putting WAY too much stock in the results of College games. I would only say that the NBA is a much different game from college. You seem to be of the opinion that the college game is equally advantageous too all players. There are kids who dominate in college and are TRASH when they get to the NBA. It happens all the time. It's a different game. What i'm telling you is that WCS's game translates better to the NBA and he will perform better than he did in college. Meanwhile there are a lot of players that will not fair as well in the NBA as they did in college. That's why you see the rankings for prospects end up the way they do. People are projecting how players talent and skills will fit in the NBA game.

Drafting WCS has nothing to do with trading Tyson. I see WCS as a player that makes everyone else's job easier in terms of slowing down PnR and Penetration. There are other defensive bigs in the NBA who aren't skilled offensive players so I don't know why you're talking like it's unheard of.

My plan includes improving perimeter defense and you know that, so I don't know why you're making it sound like we can't have both. You make good perimeter defenders even better with a rim protector with range behind them. I'm thinking in terms of team construction and i'm building the team on the foundation of Defense at it's core.

Even with a lack of scoring WCS does enough to actually impact a game positively with almost all defense. WCS will have more space to attack the basket in the NBA. In College the game is too congested and UK doesn't run any PnR for him. It won't be hard to get WCS the kind of looks other bigs like him get in the NBA. Kaminsky is gonna be a good offensive player but what we need is what WCS brings to the table.


National Leaders - +/- Avg
Rank	Value	Player	                Yr	Ht	Wt	Gms	Team
1	16.8	Kevin Pangos	        Sr	6-2	182	38	Gonzaga
2	15.6	Frank Kaminsky	        Sr	7-0	242	39	Wisconsin
3	15.0	Gary Bell Jr.	        Sr	6-2	214	38	Gonzaga
4	14.7	Kyle Wiltjer	        Jr	6-10	240	38	Gonzaga
5	14.6	Tyus Jones	        Fr	6-1	190	39	Duke
6	14.3	Willie Cauley-Stein	Jr	7-0	240	39	Kentucky
7	14.1	Quinn Cook	        Sr	6-2	185	39	Duke
7	14.1	Thomas Walkup	        Jr	6-4	195	34	Stephen F. Austin
7	14.1	Tyler Ulis	        Fr	5-9	155	37	Kentucky
10	13.9	Aaron Harrison	        So	6-6	212	39	Kentucky

WaltLongmire
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5/29/2015 1:49 AM

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BRIGGS wrote:Here s a good video and a great analysis of Towns Stein and Kaminsky.
First off I want to mention in this game Frank Kamnisky played a VERY solid game defensively. Look at the odds stacked against him and he simply held down the fort. To me that was the number 1 factor to this game. In some ways you can say Kamnisky played the best defense in that game out of all of them.
Ill go right to Stein and the guy says it perfectly--and if you saw the game you know ist true and really its a microcosm of his career.
Willie made a few VERY nice defensive plays he ALSO fell asleep on several plays did not rebound well and had no effect on the offense. Nixluva if you are having no effect on the offense--you better be fetching a HUGE amount of rebounds and taking NO plays off--thats fair right? In 3 years WCS was the same plays sans a few great games out of 110.
Some negatives with Towns in this game but it doesnt matter.
Watch Stein on the video at 1:38 fall asleep and allow Kaminsky to role to the hoop for a dunk.
He did not fight through a screen at 1:35 which allowed Kaminsky a good look at a 3.
Again at the 2:00 mark Stein gets caught in traffic and Kaminsky simply rolls into a lay up
Again 3:09 Stein lets Kaminsky go around him where he finds an open 3 point shooter
3:30 he bites on a pump fake but recovers
3:45 Kaminsky from the 3 pt line takes Stein right off the dribble right to the hole for an +1.
5:00 ANOTHER layup by Kaminsky on WCS on an easy move
5:35 and %:45 Kamnisnky pins Stein the passer missed him on this first one but the seodn one Kaminsky drove and got fouled for 2 FT's
On defense Wisconsin covered Stein with 6-5 Nigel hayes he did NOTHING all game
7:06 Willie Stein has been passed the ball--watch his indecision
7:33 watch Willie Stein NOT move on offense for 7 seconds
7:45 effort LESS play watch Stein give 0 effort for rebound
9;22 Stein WIDE open jump shot not even close
9:30 Nigel hayes moves Stein well out of play for offensive rebound Stein gives no effort none.
9:48 Stein takes an unbalanced poor form jumper WAY off doesnt crash the boards
10;00 WATCH closely Hayes at 6-5 pushes Stein 10 feet out of the play Stein gives no resistance
Ill stop here I noticed the ENTIRE tape that WCS played with VERY little passion he was outrmuscled horribly by a 6-5 player and gave no resistance. He made a few nice defensive plays but overall his effort was ABYSMAL
He is FAR FAR FAR from what is being depicted

More good stuff by DraftExpress.

The refs really let Towns and Kaminsky battle down low. Both guys showed some toughness. As Towns matures he will really be a load down low. Was it Towns who was criticized by Jackson's friend about not having a big enough butt?

Some good boxing out by Kaminsky, thought he was a bit out of control on some of his moves in the post (had to pass out of trouble now and then). He was more of a post threat in this game than he usually is, and he was moving a lot without the ball.

Towns and Kaminsky come away looking pretty good.

Not a good college career ending game for Stein. The fact that Hayes was on him at times and KU could not exploit that in the post is revealing.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?

BRIGGS
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5/29/2015 1:52 AM

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nixluva wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:Knicks don't need a PG as much as they need a defensive anchor like WCS. With this system you could find a good Combo guard that can do similar things to what Shved did, but with better D and that's pretty much all that's needed from that position. WCS provides a major boost to the teams overall defensive posture. People are underestimating the importance of that for this team. We can get scoring but there are so few defensive bigs with the talent WCS has that I feel he's exactly what we need.
Just for reference, in Tyson's 1st year here this team ended the year #5 in Defensive Efficiency. It shows just how much a great defensive big can mean to a team. If we added WCS and on top of that brought in a good defensive SG it would transform this team defensively. That would make a huge difference to this teams ability to win games.
nixluva--our guards and our offense is just so speculative. I think its MORE important to find perimeter defense--guys who can defend the wings and PG straight up(but I want these guys to play BOTH ways). But I think this draft you can find players like Fuzaro Mickey and really a bunch more to be honest in rd 2(now can we get some additional picks and will we have a coach who will play them?). I want the BPA at 4. Is that Russell--is that Mudiay is that Kaminsky is that Winslow--We have a month to decide on that or even trade down. But my man you dont reach for a one way player AFTER we trade Tyson Chandler for NEGATIVE EQUITY. You are acting like Stein is the 2nd coming of Bill Russell which he is not. Nixluva in each year at Kentucky WCS ws NOT the BP on his own team? And he got play this year and Calipari really counted on him in the tournament and except for a few moments I think Stein was a bg let down. He was outplayed against ND and outplayed with Wisconsin.
NO team in the NBA has just a defensive player in the top 5. Willie Stein would have to give 10 points and 8-9 rebounds to start and he didnt do that in college. I would expect more from Stein right? Hes a junior. When ever good teams matched up with Kentucky WCS did not dominate the game LSU? both post players played VERY well---Kentucky did not plays well against the higher ranked teams and gosh they had 3 guys who ere near 7 feet guarding the basket on EVEY play.

You're putting WAY too much stock in the results of College games. I would only say that the NBA is a much different game from college. You seem to be of the opinion that the college game is equally advantageous too all players. There are kids who dominate in college and are TRASH when they get to the NBA. It happens all the time. It's a different game. What i'm telling you is that WCS's game translates better to the NBA and he will perform better than he did in college. Meanwhile there are a lot of players that will not fair as well in the NBA as they did in college. That's why you see the rankings for prospects end up the way they do. People are projecting how players talent and skills will fit in the NBA game.
Drafting WCS has nothing to do with trading Tyson. I see WCS as a player that makes everyone else's job easier in terms of slowing down PnR and Penetration. There are other defensive bigs in the NBA who aren't skilled offensive players so I don't know why you're talking like it's unheard of.
My plan includes improving perimeter defense and you know that, so I don't know why you're making it sound like we can't have both. You make good perimeter defenders even better with a rim protector with range behind them. I'm thinking in terms of team construction and i'm building the team on the foundation of Defense at it's core.
Even with a lack of scoring WCS does enough to actually impact a game positively with almost all defense. WCS will have more space to attack the basket in the NBA. In College the game is too congested and UK doesn't run any PnR for him. It won't be hard to get WCS the kind of looks other bigs like him get in the NBA. Kaminsky is gonna be a good offensive player but what we need is what WCS brings to the table.
National Leaders - +/- Avg
Rank	Value	Player	                Yr	Ht	Wt	Gms	Team
1	16.8	Kevin Pangos	        Sr	6-2	182	38	Gonzaga
2	15.6	Frank Kaminsky	        Sr	7-0	242	39	Wisconsin
3	15.0	Gary Bell Jr.	        Sr	6-2	214	38	Gonzaga
4	14.7	Kyle Wiltjer	        Jr	6-10	240	38	Gonzaga
5	14.6	Tyus Jones	        Fr	6-1	190	39	Duke
6	14.3	Willie Cauley-Stein	Jr	7-0	240	39	Kentucky
7	14.1	Quinn Cook	        Sr	6-2	185	39	Duke
7	14.1	Thomas Walkup	        Jr	6-4	195	34	Stephen F. Austin
7	14.1	Tyler Ulis	        Fr	5-9	155	37	Kentucky
10	13.9	Aaron Harrison	        So	6-6	212	39	Kentucky

You have very little understanding of basketball. I've outlined series after series of plays where WCS was pushed around by a 6-5 guy--nixluva HOW DOES that translate to the NBA? Play after play little resistance no effort--HOW DOES that transfer to the NBA? He is guarded by a 6-5 player and just cant make a play and seems to panic with the ball in hi hands as a junior--tell me nix--HOW does that TRANSLATE to the NBA. This is a game where he is playing against NBA players and he played POORLY and the game meant everything. Why did Towns and Kaminsky play so hard push for their position gave heart and WCS DID NOT AND it showed in his stats. He is NO anchor you cant be anchor and get pushed around by small player mnixluva sorry nothing personal but he is NO anchor. He needs to learn how to play with 110% effort.

RIP Crushalot😞

nixluva
Posts: 56258
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5/29/2015 2:13 AM

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BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:Knicks don't need a PG as much as they need a defensive anchor like WCS. With this system you could find a good Combo guard that can do similar things to what Shved did, but with better D and that's pretty much all that's needed from that position. WCS provides a major boost to the teams overall defensive posture. People are underestimating the importance of that for this team. We can get scoring but there are so few defensive bigs with the talent WCS has that I feel he's exactly what we need.
Just for reference, in Tyson's 1st year here this team ended the year #5 in Defensive Efficiency. It shows just how much a great defensive big can mean to a team. If we added WCS and on top of that brought in a good defensive SG it would transform this team defensively. That would make a huge difference to this teams ability to win games.
nixluva--our guards and our offense is just so speculative. I think its MORE important to find perimeter defense--guys who can defend the wings and PG straight up(but I want these guys to play BOTH ways). But I think this draft you can find players like Fuzaro Mickey and really a bunch more to be honest in rd 2(now can we get some additional picks and will we have a coach who will play them?). I want the BPA at 4. Is that Russell--is that Mudiay is that Kaminsky is that Winslow--We have a month to decide on that or even trade down. But my man you dont reach for a one way player AFTER we trade Tyson Chandler for NEGATIVE EQUITY. You are acting like Stein is the 2nd coming of Bill Russell which he is not. Nixluva in each year at Kentucky WCS ws NOT the BP on his own team? And he got play this year and Calipari really counted on him in the tournament and except for a few moments I think Stein was a bg let down. He was outplayed against ND and outplayed with Wisconsin.
NO team in the NBA has just a defensive player in the top 5. Willie Stein would have to give 10 points and 8-9 rebounds to start and he didnt do that in college. I would expect more from Stein right? Hes a junior. When ever good teams matched up with Kentucky WCS did not dominate the game LSU? both post players played VERY well---Kentucky did not plays well against the higher ranked teams and gosh they had 3 guys who ere near 7 feet guarding the basket on EVEY play.

You're putting WAY too much stock in the results of College games. I would only say that the NBA is a much different game from college. You seem to be of the opinion that the college game is equally advantageous too all players. There are kids who dominate in college and are TRASH when they get to the NBA. It happens all the time. It's a different game. What i'm telling you is that WCS's game translates better to the NBA and he will perform better than he did in college. Meanwhile there are a lot of players that will not fair as well in the NBA as they did in college. That's why you see the rankings for prospects end up the way they do. People are projecting how players talent and skills will fit in the NBA game.
Drafting WCS has nothing to do with trading Tyson. I see WCS as a player that makes everyone else's job easier in terms of slowing down PnR and Penetration. There are other defensive bigs in the NBA who aren't skilled offensive players so I don't know why you're talking like it's unheard of.
My plan includes improving perimeter defense and you know that, so I don't know why you're making it sound like we can't have both. You make good perimeter defenders even better with a rim protector with range behind them. I'm thinking in terms of team construction and i'm building the team on the foundation of Defense at it's core.
Even with a lack of scoring WCS does enough to actually impact a game positively with almost all defense. WCS will have more space to attack the basket in the NBA. In College the game is too congested and UK doesn't run any PnR for him. It won't be hard to get WCS the kind of looks other bigs like him get in the NBA. Kaminsky is gonna be a good offensive player but what we need is what WCS brings to the table.
National Leaders - +/- Avg
Rank	Value	Player	                Yr	Ht	Wt	Gms	Team
1	16.8	Kevin Pangos	        Sr	6-2	182	38	Gonzaga
2	15.6	Frank Kaminsky	        Sr	7-0	242	39	Wisconsin
3	15.0	Gary Bell Jr.	        Sr	6-2	214	38	Gonzaga
4	14.7	Kyle Wiltjer	        Jr	6-10	240	38	Gonzaga
5	14.6	Tyus Jones	        Fr	6-1	190	39	Duke
6	14.3	Willie Cauley-Stein	Jr	7-0	240	39	Kentucky
7	14.1	Quinn Cook	        Sr	6-2	185	39	Duke
7	14.1	Thomas Walkup	        Jr	6-4	195	34	Stephen F. Austin
7	14.1	Tyler Ulis	        Fr	5-9	155	37	Kentucky
10	13.9	Aaron Harrison	        So	6-6	212	39	Kentucky
You have very little understanding of basketball. I've outlined series after series of plays where WCS was pushed around by a 6-5 guy--nixluva HOW DOES that translate to the NBA? Play after play little resistance no effort--HOW DOES that transfer to the NBA? He is guarded by a 6-5 player and just cant make a play and seems to panic with the ball in hi hands as a junior--tell me nix--HOW does that TRANSLATE to the NBA. This is a game where he is playing against NBA players and he played POORLY and the game meant everything. Why did Towns and Kaminsky play so hard push for their position gave heart and WCS DID NOT AND it showed in his stats. He is NO anchor you cant be anchor and get pushed around by small player mnixluva sorry nothing personal but he is NO anchor. He needs to learn how to play with 110% effort.

You don't end up at the top of the college Plus Minus as a defensive player unless you are bringing it most nights. WCS had a defensive rating of 80 while covering a tremendous amount of ground. I'm not saying he's perfect. All these players have some kind of issues they have to work on.

Also once again i'd remind you that the college game and NBA game are 2 different animals. The ground WCS will have to cover defensively in the NBA will be different than in college. His physical talent makes him well suited to excelling in the NBA where players have to deal with greater spacing, bigger, faster and stronger players. WCS is actually heavier than Tyson was coming into the NBA and they both weigh the same right now. WCS can still add more weight as he matures and continues on pro training programs.

BRIGGS
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5/29/2015 2:20 AM

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nixluva wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:Knicks don't need a PG as much as they need a defensive anchor like WCS. With this system you could find a good Combo guard that can do similar things to what Shved did, but with better D and that's pretty much all that's needed from that position. WCS provides a major boost to the teams overall defensive posture. People are underestimating the importance of that for this team. We can get scoring but there are so few defensive bigs with the talent WCS has that I feel he's exactly what we need.
Just for reference, in Tyson's 1st year here this team ended the year #5 in Defensive Efficiency. It shows just how much a great defensive big can mean to a team. If we added WCS and on top of that brought in a good defensive SG it would transform this team defensively. That would make a huge difference to this teams ability to win games.
nixluva--our guards and our offense is just so speculative. I think its MORE important to find perimeter defense--guys who can defend the wings and PG straight up(but I want these guys to play BOTH ways). But I think this draft you can find players like Fuzaro Mickey and really a bunch more to be honest in rd 2(now can we get some additional picks and will we have a coach who will play them?). I want the BPA at 4. Is that Russell--is that Mudiay is that Kaminsky is that Winslow--We have a month to decide on that or even trade down. But my man you dont reach for a one way player AFTER we trade Tyson Chandler for NEGATIVE EQUITY. You are acting like Stein is the 2nd coming of Bill Russell which he is not. Nixluva in each year at Kentucky WCS ws NOT the BP on his own team? And he got play this year and Calipari really counted on him in the tournament and except for a few moments I think Stein was a bg let down. He was outplayed against ND and outplayed with Wisconsin.
NO team in the NBA has just a defensive player in the top 5. Willie Stein would have to give 10 points and 8-9 rebounds to start and he didnt do that in college. I would expect more from Stein right? Hes a junior. When ever good teams matched up with Kentucky WCS did not dominate the game LSU? both post players played VERY well---Kentucky did not plays well against the higher ranked teams and gosh they had 3 guys who ere near 7 feet guarding the basket on EVEY play.

You're putting WAY too much stock in the results of College games. I would only say that the NBA is a much different game from college. You seem to be of the opinion that the college game is equally advantageous too all players. There are kids who dominate in college and are TRASH when they get to the NBA. It happens all the time. It's a different game. What i'm telling you is that WCS's game translates better to the NBA and he will perform better than he did in college. Meanwhile there are a lot of players that will not fair as well in the NBA as they did in college. That's why you see the rankings for prospects end up the way they do. People are projecting how players talent and skills will fit in the NBA game.
Drafting WCS has nothing to do with trading Tyson. I see WCS as a player that makes everyone else's job easier in terms of slowing down PnR and Penetration. There are other defensive bigs in the NBA who aren't skilled offensive players so I don't know why you're talking like it's unheard of.
My plan includes improving perimeter defense and you know that, so I don't know why you're making it sound like we can't have both. You make good perimeter defenders even better with a rim protector with range behind them. I'm thinking in terms of team construction and i'm building the team on the foundation of Defense at it's core.
Even with a lack of scoring WCS does enough to actually impact a game positively with almost all defense. WCS will have more space to attack the basket in the NBA. In College the game is too congested and UK doesn't run any PnR for him. It won't be hard to get WCS the kind of looks other bigs like him get in the NBA. Kaminsky is gonna be a good offensive player but what we need is what WCS brings to the table.
National Leaders - +/- Avg
Rank	Value	Player	                Yr	Ht	Wt	Gms	Team
1	16.8	Kevin Pangos	        Sr	6-2	182	38	Gonzaga
2	15.6	Frank Kaminsky	        Sr	7-0	242	39	Wisconsin
3	15.0	Gary Bell Jr.	        Sr	6-2	214	38	Gonzaga
4	14.7	Kyle Wiltjer	        Jr	6-10	240	38	Gonzaga
5	14.6	Tyus Jones	        Fr	6-1	190	39	Duke
6	14.3	Willie Cauley-Stein	Jr	7-0	240	39	Kentucky
7	14.1	Quinn Cook	        Sr	6-2	185	39	Duke
7	14.1	Thomas Walkup	        Jr	6-4	195	34	Stephen F. Austin
7	14.1	Tyler Ulis	        Fr	5-9	155	37	Kentucky
10	13.9	Aaron Harrison	        So	6-6	212	39	Kentucky
You have very little understanding of basketball. I've outlined series after series of plays where WCS was pushed around by a 6-5 guy--nixluva HOW DOES that translate to the NBA? Play after play little resistance no effort--HOW DOES that transfer to the NBA? He is guarded by a 6-5 player and just cant make a play and seems to panic with the ball in hi hands as a junior--tell me nix--HOW does that TRANSLATE to the NBA. This is a game where he is playing against NBA players and he played POORLY and the game meant everything. Why did Towns and Kaminsky play so hard push for their position gave heart and WCS DID NOT AND it showed in his stats. He is NO anchor you cant be anchor and get pushed around by small player mnixluva sorry nothing personal but he is NO anchor. He needs to learn how to play with 110% effort.
You don't end up at the top of the college Plus Minus as a defensive player unless you are bringing it most nights. WCS had a defensive rating of 80 while covering a tremendous amount of ground. I'm not saying he's perfect. All these players have some kind of issues they have to work on.
Also once again i'd remind you that the college game and NBA game are 2 different animals. The ground WCS will have to cover defensively in the NBA will be different than in college. His physical talent makes him well suited to excelling in the NBA where players have to deal with greater spacing, bigger, faster and stronger players. WCS is actually heavier than Tyson was coming into the NBA and they both weigh the same right now. WCS can still add more weight as he matures and continues on pro training programs.

Nixluva--I dont give a sht if someone is 180 pounds--effort is effort. And I will freely say this WCS will NEVER be a good offensive player EVER(very little feel). I think Willie better start getting his arse ready to be pushed around--where is Triple Threat's arse evaluation--i think he might have a case here.

RIP Crushalot😞

smackeddog
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5/29/2015 3:22 AM

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BRIGGS wrote:First off for a lottery pick his weakness video has the most of any of them 16-20 possible lottery picks--they really pick him a part
Offensive limitations---
14 points per 40 puts him at 92/100 top prospects that NINETY TWO
INCONSISTENT SHOOTER OUT OF CONTROL Struggles VS pressure LACKS TOUCH Does not have a good feel for the game on offense
Mechanics on shot change every time he shoots. Flat trajectory lacks touch and feel. BELOW average Handle forces plays poor passer.

DEFENSIVE rebounding
Struggles on glass due to strength awareness range and roll Gives up rebounding position to easily.
In 3 years the best he has done is 21/100 top prospects
Pushed around because of weak base. TOUGHNESS questioned
Shies away from physicality
Does not handle contact well
CONSISTENCY
Reliability comes into question after 3 years
Plays hot and cold way too much
Lack of focus
Too many poor performances Y-Y game to game
Example had 2 points and 5 rebounds in the biggest game of his life

STRENGTH--Frame is tapped out at 240 weak base awkward gate Cant follow through plays
Nixluva--this is a BIG list of problems and Ill come back to his consistency he has NONE nixluva why dont you call Phil up and ask him if he asked Willie why he scored 2 points in the final 4?
He wont be a bust but the red flags of what this guy is are HUGE. No other prospect in the top 10 have a list like this.

You obviously haven't looks at the video on Porzingis's weaknesses because they are:

Strength
Feel for the Game
Fundamentals on defense
Role in the nba?
No back to the basket game
Doesn't like playing in the post
Not a good passer

On the downside, Porzingis still looks a long ways away from reaching his full potential here, starting with his body, which remains very frail and could make him susceptible to injuries if not developed carefully. He also lacks something in the ways of toughness and awareness, as he tends to avoid contact in the paint and regularly gets pushed around on the interior, not always offering up as much resistance as you might hope. The game moves a little too fast for him at times, and he doesn't appear to be the quickest thinker around, often looking a half-step slow in his reaction time. All of these things show up in his surprisingly pedestrian rebounding numbers (2.4 offensive and 5.8 defensive per-40).
Porzingis also isn't a great passer, dishing out just 41 assists in his last 1813 minutes of action over the the last three years (spanning the ACB, EuroCup, NIJT and U18 European Championship), or one assist for every 44 minutes he plays. His assist percentage this season (and over the course of career) is one of the lowest of any player in this draft class, which is not ideal for a stretch-4 that teams may hope to run a significant amount of offense through on the perimeter.
While Porzingis' superior size for his position is certainly attractive, at the moment he has very few ways of utilizing his height to his advantage besides his shooting stroke, as he has no back to the basket game and very little interest in playing inside the paint.

http://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz3bVfnNJbu

Why do only WCS weaknesses matter?

Nalod
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5/29/2015 7:45 AM

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Cuz he is 22.

callmened
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5/29/2015 8:14 AM

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BRIGGS wrote:You have very little understanding of basketball.

HA! i love it when BRIGGS gets mad. he gets gangsta! smh.

WaltLongmire
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5/29/2015 11:00 AM

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smackeddog wrote:
Why do only WCS weaknesses matter?

If you are comparing him to Porzingis, age is a significant issue. If Porzingis has not improved his game in 3 years that would be telling and problematic for anyone who ends up drafting him.

Stein finished his college career on a bad note personally, and a member of a great team that did not accomplish its goal.

Not sure how many times I have said this... He played 3 years with some very good big men on a great team, and this year he finished on a squad with the guy who will probably go 1 in this draft, and two other bigger players who will be drafted this year, AND YET his game has shown few changes of any significance during his KU days, and it would seem that Calipari never trusted him enough to give him a greater role in their offense.

In his final game he lost to a player, Kaminsky, who improved every year- a guy who went from a 3PPG player his first two years to the college player of the year.

That is why his weaknesses matter.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?

nixluva
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5/29/2015 11:05 AM

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callmened wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:You have very little understanding of basketball.
HA! i love it when BRIGGS gets mad. he gets gangsta! smh.

Yeah I got a kick out of that one. It's OK. Everyone has moments where they go over the top a bit.

My thing is that we've had a lot of scoring before. That's not the part of the game i'm worried about. There's a reason Phil has gone on about Defense. This team won't have any kind of realistic shot at winning a title one day if they can't stop people. IMO WCS would be a great start to the process of building a team that can play championship defense. It will take more players like maybe a DeMarre Carroll, Patrick Beverly or Danny Green but the process would start with adding a great defensive big like WCS. I originally was hoping for the #1 pick so we could take Towns, but at #4 I think WCS would be the best option or if there's a deal to trade down and get WCS plus an asset that would be even better.

Phil has been pretty clear that this team needs a Rim Protector and a big that can also guard in space against faster players. He wants a big that can help shut down PnR. Towns and WCS are the 2 top bigs who could do those things. I don't see anyone we could get in Free Agency that can do that on the level WCS can.

I realize it's not the sexy pick. I like Frank Kaminsky as well, but for different reasons. I would have no problem with Kaminsky. I just think this team needs a big like WCS even more than a kid like Kaminsky. There are things WCS can do defensively that Kaminsky can't do. Things this team needs help with on D.

WaltLongmire
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5/29/2015 11:57 AM LAST EDITED: 5/29/2015 11:57 AM

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nixluva wrote:
callmened wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:You have very little understanding of basketball.
HA! i love it when BRIGGS gets mad. he gets gangsta! smh.
Yeah I got a kick out of that one. It's OK. Everyone has moments where they go over the top a bit.
My thing is that we've had a lot of scoring before. That's not the part of the game i'm worried about. There's a reason Phil has gone on about Defense. This team won't have any kind of realistic shot at winning a title one day if they can't stop people. IMO WCS would be a great start to the process of building a team that can play championship defense. It will take more players like maybe a DeMarre Carroll, Patrick Beverly or Danny Green but the process would start with adding a great defensive big like WCS. I originally was hoping for the #1 pick so we could take Towns, but at #4 I think WCS would be the best option or if there's a deal to trade down and get WCS plus an asset that would be even better.
Phil has been pretty clear that this team needs a Rim Protector and a big that can also guard in space against faster players. He wants a big that can help shut down PnR. Towns and WCS are the 2 top bigs who could do those things. I don't see anyone we could get in Free Agency that can do that on the level WCS can.
I realize it's not the sexy pick. I like Frank Kaminsky as well, but for different reasons. I would have no problem with Kaminsky. I just think this team needs a big like WCS even more than a kid like Kaminsky. There are things WCS can do defensively that Kaminsky can't do. Things this team needs help with on D.

Stein does disappear at times, and, unfortunately for him, one of those times was his final game, the biggest game in his career.

I also wonder how hard it would be to find a purely defensive big man somewhere else, because that is all Stein can give you at this time. Add to this is my opinion that Stein is probably a better help defender than a pure post defender. Wish I could have seen Stein defending Towns in the KU practices. Wonder what our scouts saw?

If you were to tell me that we could get Mudiay at #4 and then Stein later in this draft, I could live with that- but I would not look forward to only getting Stein with our #4. Would I root as hard for him as I would do for any rookie of ours- sure- he seems like an entertaining individual, and he will do some good things on the court- but I would be upset with the pick and constantly looking at the box scores of the guys we could have had.

If we take him I'll probably feel the same way some fans in Charlotte might have felt when they picked up Bismack Biyombo at #7. Clay Thompson, Vucevic, Leonard, and others were available, but they took the athletic freak with a limited offensive game and a lot of "potential"...

...you think Charlotte feels good about that pick now?

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?

nixluva
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5/29/2015 12:17 PM

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WaltLongmire wrote:
nixluva wrote:
callmened wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:You have very little understanding of basketball.
HA! i love it when BRIGGS gets mad. he gets gangsta! smh.
Yeah I got a kick out of that one. It's OK. Everyone has moments where they go over the top a bit.
My thing is that we've had a lot of scoring before. That's not the part of the game i'm worried about. There's a reason Phil has gone on about Defense. This team won't have any kind of realistic shot at winning a title one day if they can't stop people. IMO WCS would be a great start to the process of building a team that can play championship defense. It will take more players like maybe a DeMarre Carroll, Patrick Beverly or Danny Green but the process would start with adding a great defensive big like WCS. I originally was hoping for the #1 pick so we could take Towns, but at #4 I think WCS would be the best option or if there's a deal to trade down and get WCS plus an asset that would be even better.
Phil has been pretty clear that this team needs a Rim Protector and a big that can also guard in space against faster players. He wants a big that can help shut down PnR. Towns and WCS are the 2 top bigs who could do those things. I don't see anyone we could get in Free Agency that can do that on the level WCS can.
I realize it's not the sexy pick. I like Frank Kaminsky as well, but for different reasons. I would have no problem with Kaminsky. I just think this team needs a big like WCS even more than a kid like Kaminsky. There are things WCS can do defensively that Kaminsky can't do. Things this team needs help with on D.

Stein does disappear at times, and, unfortunately for him, one of those times was his final game, the biggest game in his career.
I also wonder how hard it would be to find a purely defensive big man somewhere else, because that is all Stein can give you at this time. Add to this is my opinion that Stein is probably a better help defender than a pure post defender. Wish I could have seen Stein defending Towns in the KU practices. Wonder what our scouts saw?
If you were to tell me that we could get Mudiay at #4 and then Stein later in this draft, I could live with that- but I would not look forward to only getting Stein with our #4. Would I root as hard for him as I would do for any rookie of ours- sure- he seems like an entertaining individual, and he will do some good things on the court- but I would be upset with the pick and constantly looking at the box scores of the guys we could have had.
If we take him I'll probably feel the same way some fans in Charlotte might have felt when they picked up Bismack Biyombo at #7. Clay Thompson, Vucevic, Leonard, and others were available, but they took the athletic freak with a limited offensive game and a lot of "potential"...
...you think Charlotte feels good about that pick now?

WCS is a completely different kind of player than Biyombo. People keep making that mistake. WCS is special on D. Very few defensive bigs have the kind of agility and speed that he has.

                   3/4 Sprint    Agility    Max Vert
John Wall          3.14          10.84      39.0"
WCS                3.15          10.45      37.0"
Tyson Chandler     3.36		 12.13	    33.5"

Moonangie
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5/29/2015 12:19 PM LAST EDITED: 5/29/2015 12:27 PM

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nixluva wrote:Knicks don't need a PG as much as they need a defensive anchor like WCS. With this system you could find a good Combo guard that can do similar things to what Shved did, but with better D and that's pretty much all that's needed from that position. WCS provides a major boost to the teams overall defensive posture. People are underestimating the importance of that for this team. We can get scoring but there are so few defensive bigs with the talent WCS has that I feel he's exactly what we need.
Just for reference, in Tyson's 1st year here this team ended the year #5 in Defensive Efficiency. It shows just how much a great defensive big can mean to a team. If we added WCS and on top of that brought in a good defensive SG it would transform this team defensively. That would make a huge difference to this teams ability to win games.

Nix, we have the effing #4 pick with an opportunity to draft possibly the next John Wall or Steph Curry. You don't "waste" such a gift on drafting a defensive 5. We are not trying to shore up everything this summer. Let's focus on the best player available, and fashion a team around talent, not a system.

Chances are better than average that both Melo and Phil will be gone well before we are contending again.

When drafting talent, the new MO for the Knicks must be... FUTURE > Short term winning %. Again, we need to focus on a longer term rebuild, not maximizing Melo's declining years. It's about building a team, not grasping at threads of a superstar's fading career.

With the #4 pick, we must take the best player available. Nada mas.

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