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Jared Dudley, "Carmelo is most overrated player in nba"? whom is Jared Dudley?
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Bonn1997
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5/28/2015  11:22 AM
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Jared Dudley, the most underrated NBA analyst on the planet.

I'm so glad a brilliant son like Jared has the guts and presence of mind to say what everyone, every single person on the planet already knows about Carmelo. Especially our idiot president, who gave mr. overrated $124 MM.

Jared Dudley, you see, has dragged several franchises to the playoffs on his back.

Jared is not making a franchise crippling $20+M per year, and no one expects him to lead his team to the playoffs.

franchise crippling would have been the Knicks letting Melo go for nothing. Even with trade clause, you get a lot for him if he wants to go.


Then we might have been bad enough to get the #1 pick this year!
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Moonangie
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5/28/2015  11:32 AM
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Jared Dudley, the most underrated NBA analyst on the planet.

I'm so glad a brilliant son like Jared has the guts and presence of mind to say what everyone, every single person on the planet already knows about Carmelo. Especially our idiot president, who gave mr. overrated $124 MM.

Jared Dudley, you see, has dragged several franchises to the playoffs on his back.

Jared is not making a franchise crippling $20+M per year, and no one expects him to lead his team to the playoffs.

franchise crippling would have been the Knicks letting Melo go for nothing. Even with trade clause, you get a lot for him if he wants to go.

^^^ This is the main point of the signing.

You simply DON'T let a franchise player walk. Yes, we signed him. He's a great scorer, possibly best of his generation. He's not much of a leader, but he never claimed to be "the one". If he can't lift the Knicks to at least the ECF, he may need to go elsewhere. Since we signed him, we will get to recognize the value of that contract on trade terms, such as for a lotto pick this year (if Lakers want him).
smackeddog
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5/28/2015  11:36 AM
Moonangie wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Jared Dudley, the most underrated NBA analyst on the planet.

I'm so glad a brilliant son like Jared has the guts and presence of mind to say what everyone, every single person on the planet already knows about Carmelo. Especially our idiot president, who gave mr. overrated $124 MM.

Jared Dudley, you see, has dragged several franchises to the playoffs on his back.

Jared is not making a franchise crippling $20+M per year, and no one expects him to lead his team to the playoffs.

franchise crippling would have been the Knicks letting Melo go for nothing. Even with trade clause, you get a lot for him if he wants to go.

^^^ This is the main point of the signing.

You simply DON'T let a franchise player walk. Yes, we signed him. He's a great scorer, possibly best of his generation. He's not much of a leader, but he never claimed to be "the one". If he can't lift the Knicks to at least the ECF, he may need to go elsewhere. Since we signed him, we will get to recognize the value of that contract on trade terms, such as for a lotto pick this year (if Lakers want him).

Also having him on the roster actually gives you a shot at MORE free agents. An empty roster with lots of space and no established players does not attract any meaningful free agent. We have enough space- to call his contract crippling is ridiculous.
Bonn1997
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5/28/2015  11:38 AM
smackeddog wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Jared Dudley, the most underrated NBA analyst on the planet.

I'm so glad a brilliant son like Jared has the guts and presence of mind to say what everyone, every single person on the planet already knows about Carmelo. Especially our idiot president, who gave mr. overrated $124 MM.

Jared Dudley, you see, has dragged several franchises to the playoffs on his back.

Jared is not making a franchise crippling $20+M per year, and no one expects him to lead his team to the playoffs.

franchise crippling would have been the Knicks letting Melo go for nothing. Even with trade clause, you get a lot for him if he wants to go.

^^^ This is the main point of the signing.

You simply DON'T let a franchise player walk. Yes, we signed him. He's a great scorer, possibly best of his generation. He's not much of a leader, but he never claimed to be "the one". If he can't lift the Knicks to at least the ECF, he may need to go elsewhere. Since we signed him, we will get to recognize the value of that contract on trade terms, such as for a lotto pick this year (if Lakers want him).

Also having him on the roster actually gives you a shot at MORE free agents. An empty roster with lots of space and no established players does not attract any meaningful free agent. We have enough space- to call his contract crippling is ridiculous.


That's a hypothesis. We'll find out soon if it's right or not.
Finestrg
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5/28/2015  11:46 AM
Saw this yesterday. Any response from Melo? Just looked at his twitter -- nothing. Funny how cukoo Phil takes to twitter all the time criticizing everything and everyone under the sun, even his own team and coach, and Melo has no reply to this?? Let's keep it real too btw -- Dudley should STFU but it's not like he's wrong about anything he said.
mreinman
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5/28/2015  11:48 AM
Finestrg wrote:Saw this yesterday. Any response from Melo? Just looked at his twitter -- nothing. Funny how cukoo Phil takes to twitter all the time criticizing everything and everyone under the sun, even his own team and coach, and Melo has no reply to this?? Let's keep it real too btw -- Dudley should STFU but it's not like he's wrong about anything he said.

he is an idiot but he spoke the truth which of course is uncool (unless you are funny (and good) like barkely)

so here is what phil is thinking ....
smackeddog
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5/28/2015  11:51 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Jared Dudley, the most underrated NBA analyst on the planet.

I'm so glad a brilliant son like Jared has the guts and presence of mind to say what everyone, every single person on the planet already knows about Carmelo. Especially our idiot president, who gave mr. overrated $124 MM.

Jared Dudley, you see, has dragged several franchises to the playoffs on his back.

Jared is not making a franchise crippling $20+M per year, and no one expects him to lead his team to the playoffs.

franchise crippling would have been the Knicks letting Melo go for nothing. Even with trade clause, you get a lot for him if he wants to go.

^^^ This is the main point of the signing.

You simply DON'T let a franchise player walk. Yes, we signed him. He's a great scorer, possibly best of his generation. He's not much of a leader, but he never claimed to be "the one". If he can't lift the Knicks to at least the ECF, he may need to go elsewhere. Since we signed him, we will get to recognize the value of that contract on trade terms, such as for a lotto pick this year (if Lakers want him).

Also having him on the roster actually gives you a shot at MORE free agents. An empty roster with lots of space and no established players does not attract any meaningful free agent. We have enough space- to call his contract crippling is ridiculous.


That's a hypothesis. We'll find out soon if it's right or not.

As is your claim that his contract is crippling, despite us having enough space to sign 2 max contracts if we wanted to this offseason, then the cap explodes the years after that. Please justify your claim- I'm curious to hear how much cap space is enough.

Just to recap:

Cap 2016-17= $89mil
Cap 2017-2018= $108mil
gunsnewing
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5/28/2015  11:55 AM
smackeddog wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Jared Dudley, the most underrated NBA analyst on the planet.

I'm so glad a brilliant son like Jared has the guts and presence of mind to say what everyone, every single person on the planet already knows about Carmelo. Especially our idiot president, who gave mr. overrated $124 MM.

Jared Dudley, you see, has dragged several franchises to the playoffs on his back.

Jared is not making a franchise crippling $20+M per year, and no one expects him to lead his team to the playoffs.

franchise crippling would have been the Knicks letting Melo go for nothing. Even with trade clause, you get a lot for him if he wants to go.

^^^ This is the main point of the signing.

You simply DON'T let a franchise player walk. Yes, we signed him. He's a great scorer, possibly best of his generation. He's not much of a leader, but he never claimed to be "the one". If he can't lift the Knicks to at least the ECF, he may need to go elsewhere. Since we signed him, we will get to recognize the value of that contract on trade terms, such as for a lotto pick this year (if Lakers want him).

Also having him on the roster actually gives you a shot at MORE free agents. An empty roster with lots of space and no established players does not attract any meaningful free agent. We have enough space- to call his contract crippling is ridiculous.


That's a hypothesis. We'll find out soon if it's right or not.

As is your claim that his contract is crippling, despite us having enough space to sign 2 max contracts if we wanted to this offseason, then the cap explodes the years after that. Please justify your claim- I'm curious to hear how much cap space is enough.

Just to recap:

Cap 2016-17= $89mil
Cap 2017-2018= $108mil

The Knicks are not the only team that will have capspace. Other teams will have ample capspace so we will probably be at a disadvantage again
Nalod
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5/28/2015  11:56 AM
Its not like it was the only thing he said. When you watch the clip and his explaination I kind of agree with him. He is saying his play does not match the hype.
The Golden Mooby treatment he gets as an elite player would make him "over rated".
Dudley got years in the league, its not like he is a nobody. Last in the league 10+ years is not to be dismissed.
OP slaming Milwaukee with NY elitism? Dude, we just talking basketball1!!!
His Kobe comment is actually pretty good.
Watch/listen to the clip. The context of the conversation and Cowherd asking the questions instead of tweet response.

martin
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5/28/2015  12:05 PM
Moonangie wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Jared Dudley, the most underrated NBA analyst on the planet.

I'm so glad a brilliant son like Jared has the guts and presence of mind to say what everyone, every single person on the planet already knows about Carmelo. Especially our idiot president, who gave mr. overrated $124 MM.

Jared Dudley, you see, has dragged several franchises to the playoffs on his back.

Jared is not making a franchise crippling $20+M per year, and no one expects him to lead his team to the playoffs.

franchise crippling would have been the Knicks letting Melo go for nothing. Even with trade clause, you get a lot for him if he wants to go.

^^^ This is the main point of the signing.

You simply DON'T let a franchise player walk. Yes, we signed him. He's a great scorer, possibly best of his generation. He's not much of a leader, but he never claimed to be "the one". If he can't lift the Knicks to at least the ECF, he may need to go elsewhere. Since we signed him, we will get to recognize the value of that contract on trade terms, such as for a lotto pick this year (if Lakers want him).

I have always viewed the Melo trade clause as a preemptive sign-and-trade.

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gunsnewing
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5/28/2015  12:06 PM
That would go a long way in winning a lot of fans back. Myself included
Bonn1997
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5/28/2015  12:20 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/28/2015  12:20 PM
smackeddog wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Jared Dudley, the most underrated NBA analyst on the planet.

I'm so glad a brilliant son like Jared has the guts and presence of mind to say what everyone, every single person on the planet already knows about Carmelo. Especially our idiot president, who gave mr. overrated $124 MM.

Jared Dudley, you see, has dragged several franchises to the playoffs on his back.

Jared is not making a franchise crippling $20+M per year, and no one expects him to lead his team to the playoffs.

franchise crippling would have been the Knicks letting Melo go for nothing. Even with trade clause, you get a lot for him if he wants to go.

^^^ This is the main point of the signing.

You simply DON'T let a franchise player walk. Yes, we signed him. He's a great scorer, possibly best of his generation. He's not much of a leader, but he never claimed to be "the one". If he can't lift the Knicks to at least the ECF, he may need to go elsewhere. Since we signed him, we will get to recognize the value of that contract on trade terms, such as for a lotto pick this year (if Lakers want him).

Also having him on the roster actually gives you a shot at MORE free agents. An empty roster with lots of space and no established players does not attract any meaningful free agent. We have enough space- to call his contract crippling is ridiculous.


That's a hypothesis. We'll find out soon if it's right or not.

As is your claim that his contract is crippling, despite us having enough space to sign 2 max contracts if we wanted to this offseason, then the cap explodes the years after that. Please justify your claim- I'm curious to hear how much cap space is enough.

Just to recap:

Cap 2016-17= $89mil
Cap 2017-2018= $108mil


I didn't specifically use the word crippling. I would not say there's such a thing as "enough" cap space, though. Rather, you want every penny to be spent as productively as possible. I don't think that means giving Melo the largest contract on the planet. Those #s you posted don't persuade me. I think it was a bad gamble that Melo alone would be worth 35% of the contract last year and a bad gamble that he alone will be worth almost 35% in year thirteen or 25% in year fourteen or 20% in years fifteen and sixteen.
Bonn1997
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5/28/2015  12:21 PM
gunsnewing wrote:That would go a long way in winning a lot of fans back. Myself included

+1
Vmart
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5/28/2015  12:37 PM
You want to hear what his peers say and think about Melo. I think the consensus thinks like Dudley. He is a scorer at the end of the day Melo is a scorer. Don't look for leadership, don't look for play making for others. Accept what he is a build around that.
arkrud
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5/28/2015  12:46 PM
Vmart wrote:You want to hear what his peers say and think about Melo. I think the consensus thinks like Dudley. He is a scorer at the end of the day Melo is a scorer. Don't look for leadership, don't look for play making for others. Accept what he is a build around that.

You build around foundation not around commercial sign.
Melo in not franchise player. Hi is franchise cash machine.
And Dolan is using him in most profitable way possible.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
fishmike
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5/28/2015  1:08 PM
smackeddog wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Jared Dudley, the most underrated NBA analyst on the planet.

I'm so glad a brilliant son like Jared has the guts and presence of mind to say what everyone, every single person on the planet already knows about Carmelo. Especially our idiot president, who gave mr. overrated $124 MM.

Jared Dudley, you see, has dragged several franchises to the playoffs on his back.

Jared is not making a franchise crippling $20+M per year, and no one expects him to lead his team to the playoffs.

franchise crippling would have been the Knicks letting Melo go for nothing. Even with trade clause, you get a lot for him if he wants to go.

^^^ This is the main point of the signing.

You simply DON'T let a franchise player walk. Yes, we signed him. He's a great scorer, possibly best of his generation. He's not much of a leader, but he never claimed to be "the one". If he can't lift the Knicks to at least the ECF, he may need to go elsewhere. Since we signed him, we will get to recognize the value of that contract on trade terms, such as for a lotto pick this year (if Lakers want him).

Also having him on the roster actually gives you a shot at MORE free agents. An empty roster with lots of space and no established players does not attract any meaningful free agent. We have enough space- to call his contract crippling is ridiculous.

and whether you like him or not Melo is pretty much loved and respected by his peers. By peers I mean Lebron, Wade, Pierce, Kobe, CP3... those guys. Also you dont hear a negative peep from the JRs or Shumps who are now doing well.. the exact opposite. Shump and Langston both talked openly about how Melo helped them transition to the pros.. etc etc

He shoots too much, and he's not a guy who gets in your face. Aside from that the negatives are mostly agenda driven

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
mreinman
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5/28/2015  1:23 PM
fishmike wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Jared Dudley, the most underrated NBA analyst on the planet.

I'm so glad a brilliant son like Jared has the guts and presence of mind to say what everyone, every single person on the planet already knows about Carmelo. Especially our idiot president, who gave mr. overrated $124 MM.

Jared Dudley, you see, has dragged several franchises to the playoffs on his back.

Jared is not making a franchise crippling $20+M per year, and no one expects him to lead his team to the playoffs.

franchise crippling would have been the Knicks letting Melo go for nothing. Even with trade clause, you get a lot for him if he wants to go.

^^^ This is the main point of the signing.

You simply DON'T let a franchise player walk. Yes, we signed him. He's a great scorer, possibly best of his generation. He's not much of a leader, but he never claimed to be "the one". If he can't lift the Knicks to at least the ECF, he may need to go elsewhere. Since we signed him, we will get to recognize the value of that contract on trade terms, such as for a lotto pick this year (if Lakers want him).

Also having him on the roster actually gives you a shot at MORE free agents. An empty roster with lots of space and no established players does not attract any meaningful free agent. We have enough space- to call his contract crippling is ridiculous.

and whether you like him or not Melo is pretty much loved and respected by his peers. By peers I mean Lebron, Wade, Pierce, Kobe, CP3... those guys. Also you dont hear a negative peep from the JRs or Shumps who are now doing well.. the exact opposite. Shump and Langston both talked openly about how Melo helped them transition to the pros.. etc etc

He shoots too much, and he's not a guy who gets in your face. Aside from that the negatives are mostly agenda driven

shooting (way) too much and lackluster defense is what all the talk is about.

He is not a bad guy and certain won't get in anyones face (aside from maybe THJ for not giving him the ball)

so here is what phil is thinking ....
yellowboy90
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5/28/2015  1:24 PM
I don't see anything wrong with Dudley stating his opinion. It is my opinion that he is right that Melo is not a top 5 player but I do not think he is overrated because most people do not have him in the top 5 anyway.
mreinman
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5/28/2015  1:26 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:I don't see anything wrong with Dudley stating his opinion. It is my opinion that he is right that Melo is not a top 5 player but I do not think he is overrated because most people do not have him in the top 5 anyway.

top 30

was top 15

so here is what phil is thinking ....
yellowboy90
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5/28/2015  1:29 PM
mreinman wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I don't see anything wrong with Dudley stating his opinion. It is my opinion that he is right that Melo is not a top 5 player but I do not think he is overrated because most people do not have him in the top 5 anyway.

top 30

was top 15

Okay, that's good to know your opinion too.
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