smackeddog wrote:Just thought I'd get this hypocrisy in a year early:

I can't believe we gave away Calderon for nothing! Phil is an idiot! Now he's contributing as a role player for a playoff team- Phil is an idiot, Dolan is an idiot, and even though I demanded we cut him or trade him away for nothing, and insisted he had negative trade value, somehow I'm not an idiot and a hypocrite- it's just them! Phil should have gotten back at least a late first rounder!

crzymdups wrote:I understand Amar'e's contract was untradeable. But when you look at what Phil got for the other three starters and Sixth Man of the Year when he blew up this team... it's mindbogglingly awful. He didn't get a player remotely approaching a starter, he didn't get a first round pick, he didn't get a rotation player. It is one of the most astoundingly terrible GM performances I've ever seen. All the players who left except Felton went on to play major minutes for contenders in the playoffs. He traded 5 very serviceable and good players for absolutely nothing.

The amazing thing is people keep preaching more time and patience and give Phil a chance. He's had 18 months and been absolutely horrendous. I am deeply scared of this draft. There's a potential Phil will pass on ten years of an all-star to prove his Triangle is right. Anyway. We'll see, I guess.

I don't see the Knicks being able to trade him, so hopefully he can play better in more limited minutes here.

GustavBahler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Gustav is still waiting in Missouri on a new transmission so he can drive to Seattle so he still has time to post

Calderon said that he felt bad about the way the season turned out and wants to come back strong and help the team. If that happens we will have a mentor for a PG if Phil decides to draft one. If he doesnt or that PG makes Calderon expendable in short order, we should be able to get something decent for him if he is playing well. The Knicks could use Calderon to address a need at another position.

If he comes back doughy and slow, thats another story.

Sorry to hear about the car trouble..Can't believe you are driving from Florida to Seattle..Safe journeys..Phil tried to trade Calzone with no takers..No sure how a player handle not being wanted to become a mentor..

Thanks Holfresh. Did 1100 miles the first day before I had to pull over. Still got about 2000 to go.

Calderon is a smart player, he's been in the league for a while, pretty sure he can impart some wisdom to a rookie PG. Dont remember when Phil tried to trade him but Im guessing it was when his stock had hit rock bottom. If Calderon can come back and look like the player Phil thought he would be getting, that might be easier.

Damn! Are you doing all that driving yourself? I've taken the 950 miles journey from GA to NY but I had to powernap for at least 2 hours during that 12 hour trip. What's your schedule looking like after the transmission is history?

As for Calderon, is there really any hope that a 34 year old PG will rebound his career? I'm starting to feel that his regression is due to attrition and will be permanent.

Yup just me, Ive been making trips like this for years, used to drive between NYC and fla. Did it this time on 4 hours sleep and no caffeine. I drive around 85-90 which keeps me focused.

Been a hell of a trip so far. My ipod died with all my music. Some SOB took some paint off and scratched my ride in the hotel parking lot, and the next day my car navigation died. Ay caramba.

Didnt realize Calderon was 34, but if he plays well he might garner interest from a contender, he would be a short term fix for them. Guess that's the best we can hope for right now. That or he plays well enough for us to help the team.

I don't want to overstep my bounds but be safe, man. Sometimes when things happen in succession like that, it's fate trying to tell you something. I'm sure you're back on the road by now though, so take care until next time.

I do think that Calderon has a role to be played on the right team; I'm just sure if that team is us with the glaring holes we have, even with $27 million in cap space.

I don't care what we get back -- we're talking about stretching him to pick up the extra cap room. If Phil can move this guy, I don't care if it's for a box of rubber bands, it's for the betterment of the team. His salary is awful--this coming season and the following year. Definitely not worth $15mm total over the next 2 seasons. We can do a lot with that money. What this entails is Phil admitting he misjudged an aging Calderon at such an inflated price, his willingness to adapt and go in a different direction now and for Jimmy Dolan to back him up and give the green light to stretch him and bring in another player(s) to take his place. Can each guy do that for us?? Mistakes happen -- it's what you do to correct them..

SupremeCommander wrote:damnit--you got my hopes up

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:damnit--you got my hopes up

I know, right?!

Ha- I got my own hopes up just writing the title!

masud wrote:If Phil puts together a decent roster and Calderon is healthy (dude was injured all season but let's not talk about that) people are gonna look pretty silly for dismissing him. Dude was the best 3 point shooter in the league last year and a major reason the Mavs pushed the champion Spurs to 7 games (Mavs basically swapped Calderon for Tyson and Rondo and got worse but let's not talk about that). In the right situation Calderon can be deadly. Sure he can't defend but lots of dudes in the league can't defend and teams find ways to get them on the floor and take advantage of what they can do.

I'll take that bet all day..Calderon will be 34 in training camp..He is a horrible defender in an increasing offensive perimeter league..He has a slow release and seemingly reluctant to put up contested shots..Phil tried to trade him but said there were no takers..

masud wrote:If Phil puts together a decent roster and Calderon is healthy (dude was injured all season but let's not talk about that) people are gonna look pretty silly for dismissing him. Dude was the best 3 point shooter in the league last year and a major reason the Mavs pushed the champion Spurs to 7 games (Mavs basically swapped Calderon for Tyson and Rondo and got worse but let's not talk about that). In the right situation Calderon can be deadly. Sure he can't defend but lots of dudes in the league can't defend and teams find ways to get them on the floor and take advantage of what they can do.

....the Mavs were missing Chandler Parsons in the playoffs and completely obliterated their bench when they traded for Rondo. Before those things happened, they were tops in the West in spite of Calderon's absence (but let's not talk about that).

Whatever the case, Jose Calderon has never been a sure-fire starter and was frequently supplanted by new PGs that the Raptors acquired e.g. Kyle Lowry, Mike James, TJ Ford, Jarrett Jack, etc. (but let's not talk about that). Even the Mavericks brought in Devin Harris to split time with him. Needless to say, I highly doubt at 34 years old, he'll somehow morph into a staple for our team when he's never really been that in his prime.

crzymdups wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I understand Amar'e's contract was untradeable. But when you look at what Phil got for the other three starters and Sixth Man of the Year when he blew up this team... it's mindbogglingly awful. He didn't get a player remotely approaching a starter, he didn't get a first round pick, he didn't get a rotation player. It is one of the most astoundingly terrible GM performances I've ever seen. All the players who left except Felton went on to play major minutes for contenders in the playoffs. He traded 5 very serviceable and good players for absolutely nothing.

The amazing thing is people keep preaching more time and patience and give Phil a chance. He's had 18 months and been absolutely horrendous. I am deeply scared of this draft. There's a potential Phil will pass on ten years of an all-star to prove his Triangle is right. Anyway. We'll see, I guess.

Aside from Iman Shumpert and Tyson Chandler, who are these 5 serviceable players that Phil traded? Because JR is little more than a flash in the pan right now. The same things he's doing for the Cavs are the same things he did for us during his 6th man of the year season. And for all his prowess then, you saw how little the market thought of him in free agency and rightfully so. The guy is a ticking time bomb and can scuttle any team along with himself when he implodes. He's done it with the Hornets/Pelicans, the Bulls never gave him an option for him to do it to them and gave him away almost as quickly as they got him, he's done it in Denver, he's done it with the Knicks and he'll surely do it again to the Cavs. Fortunately for the Cavs though, they aren't worrying about tomorrow as much as they are today so the fact that JR can have no future with a team is meaningless to them. But you'd be considering yourself if you thought anyone would be giving up a 1st round pick in any deal that JR Smith is included in.

And even if I gave you JR, who are the other 2 guys that Phil traded away that were serviceable?

Amar'e averaged 11ppg and 4rpg in Dallas as a serviceable bench player. Pablo Prigioni was a serviceable rotation player for Houston. JR, yes, sorry he's not liked here, but he's averaging 14ppg on 45% in the playoffs for Cleveland and has saved their bacon many times with Kyrie and Love out. Shump, yes, is starting for the Cavs. Tyson, yes, started for the playoffs Mavs and had a nice season. That's five.

So they're all serviceable... when they'er not here. Great.