smackeddog wrote:Right, because thats what everyone said when we made the trade. Everyone on here was saying we couldn't trade JR and Shump was worth a second round pick, and how we'd have to give up a pick to get rid of JRs contract. The hypocrisy is ridiculous. The big trade for them was getting Mosgov. You weren't getting anything of value back for JR, thats just a fact.

Everyone?

BRIGGS wrote:for a 2nd round pick.

You might see it that way, but I see it as Lebron able to carry 4 guys on his back to the finals.
When they were here, how did the team do with JR and Shump? Not good. JR is undisciplined but has responded well to leadership in Cleveland. Shump is healthy for now.

blkexec wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I just realized the Knicks have already traded away their own 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 second round picks.

I guess it's a good thing we got one (1) back for JR and Shump, two rotation players on an NBA Finalist and potential champion.

This is truly the worst run team in professional sports.

If it's any consolation, we got 2 2nd rounders for Prigs.

Here's the issue I have with all this - when Chandler, Shumpert and JR Smith were all traded for a pile of dog poop, we were told we needed to rebuild. When we draft in a month, I can pretty much guarantee you we will hear that we need to compete right away and we don't have time to draft a project.

You wanna know the funny thing - Phil is saying we need a defensive big man and some guards who can drive.

You wanna know another funny thing - we wouldn't be able to sign Chandler, JR and Shump with all the vaunted cap room we have this off-season. (that's if they wanted to come back here, which they obviously do not because it is the worst run team in pro sports)

This is the definition of idiotic management.

edit: And, I mean, talking about idiotic management, we haven't even gotten to the part where they won their last two road games to completely FUCK the draft aka the entire reason they supposedly gave away Tyson, JR, and Iman for nothing. Oh that's right, they thought that giving away Tyson would help them make the playoffs. Say it with me now - idiotic management.

You cant keep blaming idiotic management...When you have an idiot owner...If you were an owner with a bottomless pit of money, you cant put all this blame on management every year....You have to look in the mirror and ask whos the common denominator? Dolan is the biggest idiot. He has enough money to hire the best management employees in the world.....Its his management selections that put us in a 20yr hole. Cant blame phil or fisher.....thats like blaming Mudiay for a bad season, if he leads us to another lottery season. Bad apples fall from the top....not the bottom.

I always blame Dolan. Ownership is the first line of management.

Do people really believe that these guys would've played at a similar level here on the "rebuilding" Knicks who are a year or two away from even sniffing being a lower seeded playoff team? No. This is 100% about Lebron being the best basketball player on the planet who had these two chumps in line for once in their careers PLUS an actual tangible chance at winning a chip. I guess that's the only thing that can get JR out of the clubs at night.

Anyway, hindsight is always 20/20 so congrats to JR and Shump. I'm glad they finally got their heads out of their rear ends and started playing how they always could. But does anyone here wish we had retained these two guys instead of having the cap space they afforded us by being shipped out? I don't care how well JR Plays in spurts I want nothing to do with that guy on my team on a longterm Deal. Shump too, we can get whatever he can contribute from a litany of free agent role players available every off season. In fact we could probably get someone better for the money he would've cost.

But Jackson and his staff feared the trade values of Smith, who is dealing with a small tear in his plantar fascia, and Shumpert would worsen, realizing the Knicks were in a potential irreversible slide. He feared the Cavaliers, if they got hot, could lose interest.

And Jackson believed he desperately needed to clear more cap space, realizing 2015 is the only thing that matters now. Jackson was also scared Smith would become untradeable if his injury lingered.

Modal Trigger

J.R. Smith
Photo: Getty Images

There’s an old axiom never to make trades when you are desperate and at the bottom. But the worst part of the situation is Jackson thought they hadn’t even reached the bottom. The Zen Master was a realist and competing for the No. 1 lottery seed for Duke’s Jahlil Okafor is the only way out.

As The Post reported in November, Jackson has looked to deal Smith from the outset because of his contract and the belief his game was not cut out for the triangle. He was also, to a lesser degree, concerned about all his baggage and his contribution to a losing culture. Earlier in the season, the Knicks thought they’d get a legit asset for him. They thought wrong.

holfresh wrote:Well it all comes down to Jackson thinking you can't win with Shump and JR and he is being proven wrong...

Do you think Phil didn't know about the 54 win season? It wasn't that you couldn't win with them, it was that they didn't fit with what he was trying to build.

Sorry, did you want to keep both of them and use them as foundations to build on? That would also mean a lower draft pick and also at least $10mil less spending money this offseason- is that honestly what you would have preferred?

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:Well it all comes down to Jackson thinking you can't win with Shump and JR and he is being proven wrong...

Do you think Phil didn't know about the 54 win season? It wasn't that you couldn't win with them, it was that they didn't fit with what he was trying to build.

Sorry, did you want to keep both of them and use them as foundations to build on? That would also mean a lower draft pick and also at least $10mil less spending money this offseason- is that honestly what you would have preferred?

They had a foundation that could win games. But they didn't have a foundation that could win playing the Triangle. I guess now we get to see if such a foundation can be made without Michael or Kobe or Shaq or Scottie around.

Vmart wrote:JR. Smith and Shump playing at a high level because of LeBron. The real question is how does this reflect on Melo. Does Melo realize that he needs to elevate his game and get teammates more involved with passing to keep them on the edge at all time. It was no wonder JR played well when Kidd was running the show he kept JR and Shump ready and expect a pass can come their way.

JR won sixth man of the year playing for the Knicks without LeBron..Shump has been up and down but showed stretches where he has played well when healthy...It's all about the role you play..Asking Shump and JR to bring up the ball and distribute in the triangle was a non starter...

crzymdups wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:Well it all comes down to Jackson thinking you can't win with Shump and JR and he is being proven wrong...

Do you think Phil didn't know about the 54 win season? It wasn't that you couldn't win with them, it was that they didn't fit with what he was trying to build.

Sorry, did you want to keep both of them and use them as foundations to build on? That would also mean a lower draft pick and also at least $10mil less spending money this offseason- is that honestly what you would have preferred?

They had a foundation that could win games. But they didn't have a foundation that could win playing the Triangle. I guess now we get to see if such a foundation can be made without Michael or Kobe or Shaq or Scottie around.

Ah, this old argument- lets see if the Warriors system can win without Curry, Green and Thompson, lets see if Pops can win without Ginobli Duncan, and Parker, lets see if the Heats system can win without Lebron. Why is it only Phil who is subject to this criteria?

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:Well it all comes down to Jackson thinking you can't win with Shump and JR and he is being proven wrong...

Do you think Phil didn't know about the 54 win season? It wasn't that you couldn't win with them, it was that they didn't fit with what he was trying to build.

Sorry, did you want to keep both of them and use them as foundations to build on? That would also mean a lower draft pick and also at least $10mil less spending money this offseason- is that honestly what you would have preferred?

They had a foundation that could win games. But they didn't have a foundation that could win playing the Triangle. I guess now we get to see if such a foundation can be made without Michael or Kobe or Shaq or Scottie around.

Ah, this old argument- lets see if the Warriors system can win without Curry, Green and Thompson, lets see if Pops can win without Ginobli Duncan, and Parker, lets see if the Heats system can win without Lebron. Why is it only Phil who is subject to this criteria?

Because the Triangle has failed miserably outside of those four players. Look up the career coaching records of the Triangle disciples aka Phil's coaching tree. It's bad. Nearly every coach has the same record Fisher did.

Coincidence? Or maybe a flawed system and an egotistical coach who received too much credit for having some of the best, most driven players ever in Kobe and Michael.