dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Honestly, I try and look on the bright side, but taking a step back- we're kind of screwed. Falling out of the top 2 in the lottery was an absolute disaster. Look at free agency- who are you signing to complement our draft pick that honestly makes us a playoff team? We're further hindered by the cap exploding next year, because it's taken all restricted free agents off the market. The remaining ones all got injured. we only have $27mil, to fill PG, SG, PF and C (minus whatever position we draft) and fill out the bench. There are no good PG free agents either. And we have no pick next year- its going to be really really tough- I don't blame Phil for this, but realistically his hands are tied.

somebody's no-trade clause factors in there somewhere.

Not really- without Melo, very few FAs would want to come here- at least his presence gives us a shot at some of them that otherwise wouldn't consider us. The problem is, i don't think you can build a contender in the time scale Melo needs/wants, so I'd see if the Lakers would take him. Failing that, I think when the reality of the situation hits him, he'd be more open to accepting a trade to a contender

you can't predict that-- i could just as easily say that with melo here it will put free agents off from wanting to come here since to many he is very difficult to play with. maybe if he was not here there would be free agents who would like to be the foundation of a different kind of team, more along the lines of a winner.... in case you missed it, melo has been a loser most of his career. free agents are liable to look at that history, look at msg with mills, dolan, etc and say look elsewhere.

Players do not think of Melo as a loser. I think you're thinking like a fan or a media type. Players realize how talented Melo is and they are mostly friends outside of basketball. People forget that these guys know each other and most times have respect for each others talent. What those players are thinking is that they'd have a top player to run with and give them a chance to win.

fwk00 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Honestly, I try and look on the bright side, but taking a step back- we're kind of screwed. Falling out of the top 2 in the lottery was an absolute disaster. Look at free agency- who are you signing to complement our draft pick that honestly makes us a playoff team? We're further hindered by the cap exploding next year, because it's taken all restricted free agents off the market. The remaining ones all got injured. we only have $27mil, to fill PG, SG, PF and C (minus whatever position we draft) and fill out the bench. There are no good PG free agents either. And we have no pick next year- its going to be really really tough- I don't blame Phil for this, but realistically his hands are tied.

Falling out of the top three was disappointing to be sure but we are not screwed.

The Knicks lost a lot of games last year and for that reason its easy to go along with the crowd who say that they stink. last year was a learning experience and a time to build ground up. A foundation is in place. Traditionally, the Knicks grasp at every big name that becomes available regardless of consequence or reasonable expectation.

We go into next year with a rich bench and numerous candidate rotation players. few people want to hear this and fewer believe it but we have some damned good players.

We do not need "everything". We have Melo as one forward. The back court slots are filled to the brim assuming we hold onto the lottery pick. That leaves starting opportunities at the SF and Center positions - the bench in both cases is also filled with solid role players.

All of the players we have have upside and time to grow.

Personally I move Timmy to Miami for #10 and pick up a big man in that lottery geography.

Sign the best 3 & D swingman we can get - Middleton, Carroll, Butler - plenty of FAs.

The doom and gloom is manufactured. this is a rising team that will win like SA and Atlanta win.

I think you're being a bit too optimistic. My optimism spreads out over multiple years for the team.

Signed players for next year.....

Melo (Starter)
Galloway (team option) - Reserve
THJ - Reserve
Calderon - Reserve
Early - End of Bench Reserve
Acy (team option) - Reserve - may or may not be resigned at $1.1 Mil
Schved (Qualifying Offer at $4 Mil) - starter/reserve
Wear - QO at $1 Mil - end of bench reserve type IMO
Thanisis - own his rights

I am optimistic about the #4 pick. Everyone wanted the top 2 - but none of us know how all these guys are going to pan out. There are a significant number of NBA all time great players who were not drafted in the Top 10, I agree with your OP that whoever is brought in will bring renewed excitement back to the garden - especially if it is a guard with handles like Russell or Mudiay. I am also excited about the prospect of significant Cap Space for the first time in years. I believe that the Free Agent moves need to be prudent as the rebuild of this team will take multiple years. Too many here seem to only express concern about how the Knicks will play/contend next year. To me that is the Isiah way of thinking. He made continuous bad moves to keep the Knicks mediocre or worse at the extreme cost of future picks and cap flexibility. I am also optimistic about the dramatic Cap Increase. This could make some guys available on shorter term deals while they wait for their future big payday under the growing cap structure.

On the flipside - I don't think that we should overpay to bring in a mediocre FA this year because there is no one else available. It's not about contending just for next year.....but building a perpetuatl contender. I'm not worried about the Melo no trade clause. If the Knicks are terrible again - he will tire of it and want to move to a contender before he retires. THJ will not yield a #10 pick (by himself)....however the trade exceptions if used wisely might be able to bring in multiple assets.

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Honestly, I try and look on the bright side, but taking a step back- we're kind of screwed. Falling out of the top 2 in the lottery was an absolute disaster. Look at free agency- who are you signing to complement our draft pick that honestly makes us a playoff team? We're further hindered by the cap exploding next year, because it's taken all restricted free agents off the market. The remaining ones all got injured. we only have $27mil, to fill PG, SG, PF and C (minus whatever position we draft) and fill out the bench. There are no good PG free agents either. And we have no pick next year- its going to be really really tough- I don't blame Phil for this, but realistically his hands are tied.

Falling out of the top three was disappointing to be sure but we are not screwed.

The Knicks lost a lot of games last year and for that reason its easy to go along with the crowd who say that they stink. last year was a learning experience and a time to build ground up. A foundation is in place. Traditionally, the Knicks grasp at every big name that becomes available regardless of consequence or reasonable expectation.

We go into next year with a rich bench and numerous candidate rotation players. few people want to hear this and fewer believe it but we have some damned good players.

We do not need "everything". We have Melo as one forward. The back court slots are filled to the brim assuming we hold onto the lottery pick. That leaves starting opportunities at the SF and Center positions - the bench in both cases is also filled with solid role players.

All of the players we have have upside and time to grow.

Personally I move Timmy to Miami for #10 and pick up a big man in that lottery geography.

Sign the best 3 & D swingman we can get - Middleton, Carroll, Butler - plenty of FAs.

The doom and gloom is manufactured. this is a rising team that will win like SA and Atlanta win.

U are building a foundation with D league players??..

We were told JR, Shumpert, Prigioni had not enough talent as well. Don't confuse an orchestrated losing record with a lack of talent. By the end of the season our guys were breaking the tank wanting to kick some ass.

You are vastly underestimating the foundation that was being put in place.

fwk00 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Honestly, I try and look on the bright side, but taking a step back- we're kind of screwed. Falling out of the top 2 in the lottery was an absolute disaster. Look at free agency- who are you signing to complement our draft pick that honestly makes us a playoff team? We're further hindered by the cap exploding next year, because it's taken all restricted free agents off the market. The remaining ones all got injured. we only have $27mil, to fill PG, SG, PF and C (minus whatever position we draft) and fill out the bench. There are no good PG free agents either. And we have no pick next year- its going to be really really tough- I don't blame Phil for this, but realistically his hands are tied.

Falling out of the top three was disappointing to be sure but we are not screwed.

The Knicks lost a lot of games last year and for that reason its easy to go along with the crowd who say that they stink. last year was a learning experience and a time to build ground up. A foundation is in place. Traditionally, the Knicks grasp at every big name that becomes available regardless of consequence or reasonable expectation.

We go into next year with a rich bench and numerous candidate rotation players. few people want to hear this and fewer believe it but we have some damned good players.

We do not need "everything". We have Melo as one forward. The back court slots are filled to the brim assuming we hold onto the lottery pick. That leaves starting opportunities at the SF and Center positions - the bench in both cases is also filled with solid role players.

All of the players we have have upside and time to grow.

Personally I move Timmy to Miami for #10 and pick up a big man in that lottery geography.

Sign the best 3 & D swingman we can get - Middleton, Carroll, Butler - plenty of FAs.

The doom and gloom is manufactured. this is a rising team that will win like SA and Atlanta win.

You might be able to get Miamis pick at 40 for Tim Hardaway--just like the rest of that post--getting him at 10 is just slightly over rating a player taken at 24.

Right, we may have to sweeten the deal.

With what? We have no assets

fwk00 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Honestly, I try and look on the bright side, but taking a step back- we're kind of screwed. Falling out of the top 2 in the lottery was an absolute disaster. Look at free agency- who are you signing to complement our draft pick that honestly makes us a playoff team? We're further hindered by the cap exploding next year, because it's taken all restricted free agents off the market. The remaining ones all got injured. we only have $27mil, to fill PG, SG, PF and C (minus whatever position we draft) and fill out the bench. There are no good PG free agents either. And we have no pick next year- its going to be really really tough- I don't blame Phil for this, but realistically his hands are tied.

Falling out of the top three was disappointing to be sure but we are not screwed.

The Knicks lost a lot of games last year and for that reason its easy to go along with the crowd who say that they stink. last year was a learning experience and a time to build ground up. A foundation is in place. Traditionally, the Knicks grasp at every big name that becomes available regardless of consequence or reasonable expectation.

We go into next year with a rich bench and numerous candidate rotation players. few people want to hear this and fewer believe it but we have some damned good players.

We do not need "everything". We have Melo as one forward. The back court slots are filled to the brim assuming we hold onto the lottery pick. That leaves starting opportunities at the SF and Center positions - the bench in both cases is also filled with solid role players.

All of the players we have have upside and time to grow.

Personally I move Timmy to Miami for #10 and pick up a big man in that lottery geography.

Sign the best 3 & D swingman we can get - Middleton, Carroll, Butler - plenty of FAs.

The doom and gloom is manufactured. this is a rising team that will win like SA and Atlanta win.

You might be able to get Miamis pick at 40 for Tim Hardaway--just like the rest of that post--getting him at 10 is just slightly over rating a player taken at 24.

Right, we may have to sweeten the deal.

With what? We have no assets

Early and a future second-rounder might do it. I mentioned Miami only because Miami was his dad's stomping grounds and Miami is in win now mode.

Hardaway for any pick 10 - 25 works for me.

His dad is now an assistant coach for Detroit I think- I think they are a more realistic trading partner for him (they need shooting)