nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I could care less about the Triangle because the odds are that it will be a memory within 2 seasons. If we drafted Russell by the grace of the Basketball Gods, would anyone really care how he fits in the triangle?

I think you're severely underestimating what is going on with this franchise. The Triangle isn't going anywhere IMO. The team is being built this summer based on the Triangle as the main system. Our D League team is setup to teach the Triangle with a coach that is a pure Triangle guy. Our scouts are looking for players they feel will thrive in the Triangle. So basically from top to bottom this franchise is being remade as a franchise that has the Triangle at it's core. This is no different than the Spurs who have been able to develop players and then plug them into an established system that is evolving over time but still very much a long term core facet of the franchise.

You are severely underestimating how long Phil will be here. As soon as he's gone, the Triangle is going with him. The player we draft now, if he's worth his salt, will be around long after Phil is lying on a beach somewhere. Bank on it. A new President/GM will hire a new coach and he'll have his own system. I believe Fisher is here only as long as Phil is President. I dont believe that will be beyond 2 more seasons at most.

I disagree. First of all you're assuming that Phil is gone before he has fully established not only a new team but had a chance to build up the farm team as well. It is Phil who is going to be stocking the cupboards with Triangle capable players and more believers in the front office. If the Knicks make the playoffs then Fisher and all of Phil's other men are only going to be entrenched deeper in their positions. 3 years from now all of this will look a lot different and you'll see how deep the roots Phil is planting will go, making it harder to just uproot and change things.

Remember Phil has all of his scouts looking for players that fit the Triangle. Every player he brings into the D League will have that kind of talent in mind and be schooled in the system. This isn't just a typical Knicks regime. This is a lot of wholesale structural foundations being installed. It's possible that Phil moves into a consultant role a few years down the line, similar to Jerry West in Golden State.

I should have said "overestimating"'. Anyway, my point is that Phil may be building a roster based on the triangle doesnt guarantee that his successor will be running the same system. If this were a system in use around the league, sure I could see a chance that the next GM/ Coach would keep around. Thats not the case, not even close.

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I could care less about the Triangle because the odds are that it will be a memory within 2 seasons. If we drafted Russell by the grace of the Basketball Gods, would anyone really care how he fits in the triangle?

I think you're severely underestimating what is going on with this franchise. The Triangle isn't going anywhere IMO. The team is being built this summer based on the Triangle as the main system. Our D League team is setup to teach the Triangle with a coach that is a pure Triangle guy. Our scouts are looking for players they feel will thrive in the Triangle. So basically from top to bottom this franchise is being remade as a franchise that has the Triangle at it's core. This is no different than the Spurs who have been able to develop players and then plug them into an established system that is evolving over time but still very much a long term core facet of the franchise.

You are severely underestimating how long Phil will be here. As soon as he's gone, the Triangle is going with him. The player we draft now, if he's worth his salt, will be around long after Phil is lying on a beach somewhere. Bank on it. A new President/GM will hire a new coach and he'll have his own system. I believe Fisher is here only as long as Phil is President. I dont believe that will be beyond 2 more seasons at most.

all this after 1 season of Phil, Fisher?

For me this offseason and perhaps next will be very telling about how Phil going to build Knicks. I am still under impression that although Melo on team, he is by no means the crux of everything, if he fits he fits, but don't be surprised if Phil goes in another direction or builds too slowly for a Melo timeline and uses him as a trade chip.

I believe Phil's age, health, Isiah's return, his not expecting last season to go the way it did, the draft, all will play a part in how long Phil will be here. Not to mention how long Dolan stays out of the decision making process. Fisher has his own learning curve, I dont know if Phil will keep him around beyond next season if he doesnt show more as a coach.

nixluva wrote:Fisher is not a bad coach. Don't let the record fool you. This team actually looked well coached after we made the trade. You could see that players knew what to do and they defended harder. The only issue was a lack of talent. There's not much you can point to that proves Fisher is not a good coach in terms of how hard the team continued to play late in the season. He didn't lose his team.

As i've stated previously Phil is establishing a TON of foundational structures in this franchise. There's really no reason to believe that they'll soon be done away with. Any thoughts like that are based in belief that Phil will be a failure next year. If he is successful in revamping the team and they win games he isn't going anywhere and neither are any of his installed staff from the D League on up. Right now the franchise is all in on the Triangle and Phil's vision. If he is here the next 2 years then it's less likely there will be a change that wipes away all of the things he's installed over that time period.

Just think about it for second. Phil has a top 4 draft pick and $28 Million in cap space. How likely is it that this team won't be competitive over the next 2 years after he's added a lot more talent?
I think this last season has warped the minds of many fans and the Media. This is the NBA it doesn't take much to make a team competitive. Phil has enough resources to make a substantial improvement in this roster. When that happens there's little chance that a big change in management will happen.

Not suggesting he is a bad coach, the jury is out. He still has to learn the ins and outs of coaching. I don't believe Phil can keep him beyond next season if he doesn't show some progress. Dolan will start breathing down his neck and so will the NY press.

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:Fisher is not a bad coach. Don't let the record fool you. This team actually looked well coached after we made the trade. You could see that players knew what to do and they defended harder. The only issue was a lack of talent. There's not much you can point to that proves Fisher is not a good coach in terms of how hard the team continued to play late in the season. He didn't lose his team.

As i've stated previously Phil is establishing a TON of foundational structures in this franchise. There's really no reason to believe that they'll soon be done away with. Any thoughts like that are based in belief that Phil will be a failure next year. If he is successful in revamping the team and they win games he isn't going anywhere and neither are any of his installed staff from the D League on up. Right now the franchise is all in on the Triangle and Phil's vision. If he is here the next 2 years then it's less likely there will be a change that wipes away all of the things he's installed over that time period.

Just think about it for second. Phil has a top 4 draft pick and $28 Million in cap space. How likely is it that this team won't be competitive over the next 2 years after he's added a lot more talent?
I think this last season has warped the minds of many fans and the Media. This is the NBA it doesn't take much to make a team competitive. Phil has enough resources to make a substantial improvement in this roster. When that happens there's little chance that a big change in management will happen.

Not suggesting he is a bad coach, the jury is out. He still has to learn the ins and outs of coaching. I don't believe Phil can keep him beyond next season if he doesn't show some progress. Dolan will start breathing down his neck and so will the NY press.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:Fisher is not a bad coach. Don't let the record fool you. This team actually looked well coached after we made the trade. You could see that players knew what to do and they defended harder. The only issue was a lack of talent. There's not much you can point to that proves Fisher is not a good coach in terms of how hard the team continued to play late in the season. He didn't lose his team.

As i've stated previously Phil is establishing a TON of foundational structures in this franchise. There's really no reason to believe that they'll soon be done away with. Any thoughts like that are based in belief that Phil will be a failure next year. If he is successful in revamping the team and they win games he isn't going anywhere and neither are any of his installed staff from the D League on up. Right now the franchise is all in on the Triangle and Phil's vision. If he is here the next 2 years then it's less likely there will be a change that wipes away all of the things he's installed over that time period.

Just think about it for second. Phil has a top 4 draft pick and $28 Million in cap space. How likely is it that this team won't be competitive over the next 2 years after he's added a lot more talent?
I think this last season has warped the minds of many fans and the Media. This is the NBA it doesn't take much to make a team competitive. Phil has enough resources to make a substantial improvement in this roster. When that happens there's little chance that a big change in management will happen.

Not suggesting he is a bad coach, the jury is out. He still has to learn the ins and outs of coaching. I don't believe Phil can keep him beyond next season if he doesn't show some progress. Dolan will start breathing down his neck and so will the NY press.

I doubt that Fisher will be a limiting factor for this team next year. As long as the talent is there I believe he'll have them prepared to play well and execute at a high level. The key is the talent. With a huge influx in talent this team should win a lot more games and make things easier for Fisher. He can focus more on the moment when he's not having to deal with players not being able to do the basic things we need.

So nix where do get your smoke from cali or columbia? because thats sht has you fantasizing on cloud 99.

you don't have to suggest that fisher is a bad coach, he's down right awful. starting the season 5-30 with a roster full of players who were all traded or waive and made the playoffs on there new teams.

He doesnt know what he's doing, and thats not going to change just because you bring in new players, unless these player have major triangle experience.

Nobody is coming in here and mastering that system in 30 days, fishers isn't going to be a different coach in 4 months. Mark jackson won 4 or 5 more games in his second yr, kerr won 16 more games with damn near the same exact squad (talent was the least of their problems under jack).

But there is 2 ways Fisher can have a much better season next yr...leave the BS triangle system at home, and get an elite pg to run the team.

They were traded or waived because they under performed under several coaches. Lots of injuries, turmoil, roster changes. No idea how it turns out but Fisher deserves one more season to sink or swim.

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:Fisher is not a bad coach. Don't let the record fool you. This team actually looked well coached after we made the trade. You could see that players knew what to do and they defended harder. The only issue was a lack of talent. There's not much you can point to that proves Fisher is not a good coach in terms of how hard the team continued to play late in the season. He didn't lose his team.

As i've stated previously Phil is establishing a TON of foundational structures in this franchise. There's really no reason to believe that they'll soon be done away with. Any thoughts like that are based in belief that Phil will be a failure next year. If he is successful in revamping the team and they win games he isn't going anywhere and neither are any of his installed staff from the D League on up. Right now the franchise is all in on the Triangle and Phil's vision. If he is here the next 2 years then it's less likely there will be a change that wipes away all of the things he's installed over that time period.

Just think about it for second. Phil has a top 4 draft pick and $28 Million in cap space. How likely is it that this team won't be competitive over the next 2 years after he's added a lot more talent?
I think this last season has warped the minds of many fans and the Media. This is the NBA it doesn't take much to make a team competitive. Phil has enough resources to make a substantial improvement in this roster. When that happens there's little chance that a big change in management will happen.

Not suggesting he is a bad coach, the jury is out. He still has to learn the ins and outs of coaching. I don't believe Phil can keep him beyond next season if he doesn't show some progress. Dolan will start breathing down his neck and so will the NY press.

I doubt that Fisher will be a limiting factor for this team next year. As long as the talent is there I believe he'll have them prepared to play well and execute at a high level. The key is the talent. With a huge influx in talent this team should win a lot more games and make things easier for Fisher. He can focus more on the moment when he's not having to deal with players not being able to do the basic things we need.

So nix where do get your smoke from cali or columbia? because thats sht has you fantasizing on cloud 99.

you don't have to suggest that fisher is a bad coach, he's down right awful. starting the season 5-30 with a roster full of players who were all traded or waive and made the playoffs on there new teams.

He doesnt know what he's doing, and thats not going to change just because you bring in new players, unless these player have major triangle experience.

Nobody is coming in here and mastering that system in 30 days, fishers isn't going to be a different coach in 4 months. Mark jackson won 4 or 5 more games in his second yr, kerr won 16 more games with damn near the same exact squad (talent was the least of their problems under jack).

But there is 2 ways Fisher can have a much better season next yr...leave the BS triangle system at home, and get an elite pg to run the team.

They were traded or waived because they under performed under several coaches. Lots of injuries, turmoil, roster changes. No idea how it turns out but Fisher deserves one more season to sink or swim.

who did he under perform under, you expected a player who played a certain way for 10 yrs, to just pick up on the triangle over night.

It was a stupid short sighted trade, and hiring fisher was a bad move, we all do stupid sht every now and then and we want to kick ourselves..

The Knicks knew it was a crucible to test the players and they made that clear. We've moved on from them and are looking to see which players we can bring in that will be more willing to learn how to excel in the system. Scrubs came in and looked better playing in the system without the benefit of training camp. Fisher's record isn't the way you have to judge him on year one. You seem to think that regardless of talent that any coach should be able to win. That's not really true. Especially in our case with Fisher looking to get players to unlearn bad habits and learn how to play a team game.

We ask players to do more than they have to do playing next to Lebron and Kyrie. Some players stepped up to the challenge and others didn't. There wasn't enough talent to win games, but you could see that the team was playing together and playing hard.