Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:In regards to LBJ finding Shump, Shump took significantly less shots when he was on the floor for the Cavs in the regular season than he did for the Knicks. He has had a great series but he also has played for four seasons in the nba and is a shooting guard that for his career has shot under 40%.

But shump has an impact in other ways that don't show up in the box scores. There's no way in hell you can justify that trade, worse off we made another eastern conference team much better. It was a lame desperate trade that made zero sense.

Playing with LeBron makes everyone look good. Hell he would make Bargs look like Dirk, why was Shump not effective with the Knicks how come he was not able to help the Knicks win? Let's put it this way the Cavs could probably plug half the league in with LBJ and they would experience similar results.

Thats partly true, but the coach is partly to blame as well, because he's the one that suppose to put his players in a position to be successful. With woodson running a bunch of Iso's and fisher not running much of anything, there was no way for him to maximize his skills.

Under MDA shump was shinning, and Blatt runs the same Euro system MDA was running.

WaltLongmire wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:In regards to LBJ finding Shump, Shump took significantly less shots when he was on the floor for the Cavs in the regular season than he did for the Knicks. He has had a great series but he also has played for four seasons in the nba and is a shooting guard that for his career has shot under 40%.

But shump has an impact in other ways that don't show up in the box scores. There's no way in hell you can justify that trade, worse off we made another eastern conference team much better. It was a lame desperate trade that made zero sense.

Playing with LeBron makes everyone look good. Hell he would make Bargs look like Dirk, why was Shump not effective with the Knicks how come he was not able to help the Knicks win? Let's put it this way the Cavs could probably plug half the league in with LBJ and they would experience similar results.

Thats partly true, but the coach is partly to blame as well, because he's the one that suppose to put his players in a position to be successful. With woodson running a bunch of Iso's and fisher not running much of anything, there was no way for him to maximize his skills.

Under MDA shump was shinning, and Blatt runs the same Euro system MDA was running.

Not running much of anything??

You may like or not like the triangle, or think it can't succeed in today's NBA, and there seems to be a steeper learning curve to master it (a curve that Smith and Shumpert seemingly could not, or did not want to, negotiate), but I can't see how you can say Fisher was "not running much of anything."

Perhaps it requires too much decision making on the part of individual players, and Smith and Shump were not up to the task, but there was a clearly defined offense being run by the Knicks. The only guys on the team, following the departure of JR and Shumpert, who did not really buy into the offense were Hardaway and, unfortunately, Anthony.

The offense we run next year will hinge on Anthony's willingness to play within a system, and limit his ISO adventures. Hardaway will either conform, or he will be gone, IMO.

Excellent post!!! It seems to be lost on some people that this Triangle system we run is not the problem. While Shump and JR were here they had an even greater opportunity to step up and have a pronounced role, but they didn't have a Lebron or Kyrie taking up the load as the have in Cleveland. Lebron makes everyone's job easier since he has the ball and directs the team and initiates a lot of the offense. If not Lebron then Kyrie and then after them guys like Iman, JR and Delladova fill in.

Almost every player we added after they left picked up the Triangle faster than JR and Iman!!! We may not have had a lot of talent but in terms of actually running the offense the team did do that but just couldn't finish off plays and make enough shots due to limited talent. When things get tough in Cleveland JR and Iman have Lebron and Kyrie to make something happen.

Hopefully we can bring in new talent that will perform much better and give us something to be proud of. In just a few days we will learn what pick we'll have and hopefully it will be high. We could certainly use some good news.

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:In regards to LBJ finding Shump, Shump took significantly less shots when he was on the floor for the Cavs in the regular season than he did for the Knicks. He has had a great series but he also has played for four seasons in the nba and is a shooting guard that for his career has shot under 40%.

But shump has an impact in other ways that don't show up in the box scores. There's no way in hell you can justify that trade, worse off we made another eastern conference team much better. It was a lame desperate trade that made zero sense.

Playing with LeBron makes everyone look good. Hell he would make Bargs look like Dirk, why was Shump not effective with the Knicks how come he was not able to help the Knicks win? Let's put it this way the Cavs could probably plug half the league in with LBJ and they would experience similar results.

Thats partly true, but the coach is partly to blame as well, because he's the one that suppose to put his players in a position to be successful. With woodson running a bunch of Iso's and fisher not running much of anything, there was no way for him to maximize his skills.

Under MDA shump was shinning, and Blatt runs the same Euro system MDA was running.

Not running much of anything??

You may like or not like the triangle, or think it can't succeed in today's NBA, and there seems to be a steeper learning curve to master it (a curve that Smith and Shumpert seemingly could not, or did not want to, negotiate), but I can't see how you can say Fisher was "not running much of anything."

Perhaps it requires too much decision making on the part of individual players, and Smith and Shump were not up to the task, but there was a clearly defined offense being run by the Knicks. The only guys on the team, following the departure of JR and Shumpert, who did not really buy into the offense were Hardaway and, unfortunately, Anthony.

The offense we run next year will hinge on Anthony's willingness to play within a system, and limit his ISO adventures. Hardaway will either conform, or he will be gone, IMO.

You guys are using Shump and JR as a scapegoat for the unsuccessful implementation of the triangle...I watched all the games, initially they struggled but JR of all people got it at one point..I remember posting that JR is making the best decisions and passes in the triangle... Shump was asked to bring up the ball and distribute it, he isn't that kind of player and neither is JR..It's not that they didn't get it, we didn't have the pieces to implement the system..They are the scapegoat..People are saying the kids that came on after picked up on the triangle immediately..Well they lost more games at a more alarming rate and by bigger margins than the guys they replaced...Only difference is that there are zero expectations on them...Everyone was thinking lottery...

JR's role with the Knicks was completely different. The Triangle puts a relatively equal amount of responsibility on every player verses mostly one guy running the show
as in Lebron or CP3 when they're on the floor. If you notice JR's usage and Assist % were higher with the Knicks but his tS% and Steal % were worse. In Cleveland JR is
more limited to taking catch and shoot 3's, which is actually his strength.

Season ▾  Age  Tm  Pos  G  MP   PER  TS%  3PAr  FTr  ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL%  BLK%  TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48  OBPM  DBPM  BPM  VORP
2014-15   29   NYK SG	24 619  11.5 .487 .359 .155  0.7   10.4  5.4   23.3  1.5   0.5   14.4  23.3  -0.2 0.1  -0.1 -0.008 -1.2  -3.1  -4.3 -0.4
2014-15   29   CLE SG   46 1461 14.5 .565 .667 .065  2.1   10.4  6.3   12.3  2.3   1.0   9.1   17.6   2.4 1.3  3.8   .124   3.0  -0.1   2.9  1.8 
JR has played almost twice as many games in Cleveland but still you can see how much of a difference there is in assisted shots he's made since 
being in Cleveland.  JR can basically reduce his focus to catch and shoot sniper and defense.  He's assisting and getting to the FT line less in 
Cleveland.  His shooting %'s have increased across the board.
Assisted By	        FGM
James, LeBron	        52
Irving, Kyrie	        46
Shumpert, Iman	        13
Love, Kevin	        11
Mozgov, Timofey	        11
Dellavedova, Matthew	10
Prigioni, Pablo	        7
Larkin, Shane	        6
Stoudemire, Amar'e	6
Anthony, Carmelo	4
Acy, Quincy	        3
Calderon, Jose	        3
Dalembert, Samuel	3
Hardaway Jr., Tim	3
Smith, Jason	        3
Early, Cleanthony	2
Miller, Mike	        2
Thompson, Tristan	2
Marion, Shawn	        1
Perkins, Kendrick	1
Wear, Travis	        1

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:In regards to LBJ finding Shump, Shump took significantly less shots when he was on the floor for the Cavs in the regular season than he did for the Knicks. He has had a great series but he also has played for four seasons in the nba and is a shooting guard that for his career has shot under 40%.

But shump has an impact in other ways that don't show up in the box scores. There's no way in hell you can justify that trade, worse off we made another eastern conference team much better. It was a lame desperate trade that made zero sense.

Playing with LeBron makes everyone look good. Hell he would make Bargs look like Dirk, why was Shump not effective with the Knicks how come he was not able to help the Knicks win? Let's put it this way the Cavs could probably plug half the league in with LBJ and they would experience similar results.

Thats partly true, but the coach is partly to blame as well, because he's the one that suppose to put his players in a position to be successful. With woodson running a bunch of Iso's and fisher not running much of anything, there was no way for him to maximize his skills.

Under MDA shump was shinning, and Blatt runs the same Euro system MDA was running.

Not running much of anything??

You may like or not like the triangle, or think it can't succeed in today's NBA, and there seems to be a steeper learning curve to master it (a curve that Smith and Shumpert seemingly could not, or did not want to, negotiate), but I can't see how you can say Fisher was "not running much of anything."

Perhaps it requires too much decision making on the part of individual players, and Smith and Shump were not up to the task, but there was a clearly defined offense being run by the Knicks. The only guys on the team, following the departure of JR and Shumpert, who did not really buy into the offense were Hardaway and, unfortunately, Anthony.

The offense we run next year will hinge on Anthony's willingness to play within a system, and limit his ISO adventures. Hardaway will either conform, or he will be gone, IMO.

You guys are using Shump and JR as a scapegoat for the unsuccessful implementation of the triangle...I watched all the games, initially they struggled but JR of all people got it at one point..I remember posting that JR is making the best decisions and passes in the triangle... Shump was asked to bring up the ball and distribute it, he isn't that kind of player and neither is JR..It's not that they didn't get it, we didn't have the pieces to implement the system..They are the scapegoat..People are saying the kids that came on after picked up on the triangle immediately..Well they lost more games at a more alarming rate and by bigger margins than the guys they replaced...Only difference is that there are zero expectations on them...Everyone was thinking lottery...

JR's role with the Knicks was completely different. The Triangle puts a relatively equal amount of responsibility on every player verses mostly one guy running the show
as in Lebron or CP3 when they're on the floor. If you notice JR's usage and Assist % were higher with the Knicks but his tS% and Steal % were worse. In Cleveland JR is
more limited to taking catch and shoot 3's, which is actually his strength.

Season ▾  Age  Tm  Pos  G  MP   PER  TS%  3PAr  FTr  ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL%  BLK%  TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48  OBPM  DBPM  BPM  VORP
2014-15   29   NYK SG	24 619  11.5 .487 .359 .155  0.7   10.4  5.4   23.3  1.5   0.5   14.4  23.3  -0.2 0.1  -0.1 -0.008 -1.2  -3.1  -4.3 -0.4
2014-15   29   CLE SG   46 1461 14.5 .565 .667 .065  2.1   10.4  6.3   12.3  2.3   1.0   9.1   17.6   2.4 1.3  3.8   .124   3.0  -0.1   2.9  1.8 
JR has played almost twice as many games in Cleveland but still you can see how much of a difference there is in assisted shots he's made since 
being in Cleveland.  JR can basically reduce his focus to catch and shoot sniper and defense.  He's assisting and getting to the FT line less in 
Cleveland.  His shooting %'s have increased across the board.
Assisted By	        FGM
James, LeBron	        52
Irving, Kyrie	        46
Shumpert, Iman	        13
Love, Kevin	        11
Mozgov, Timofey	        11
Dellavedova, Matthew	10
Prigioni, Pablo	        7
Larkin, Shane	        6
Stoudemire, Amar'e	6
Anthony, Carmelo	4
Acy, Quincy	        3
Calderon, Jose	        3
Dalembert, Samuel	3
Hardaway Jr., Tim	3
Smith, Jason	        3
Early, Cleanthony	2
Miller, Mike	        2
Thompson, Tristan	2
Marion, Shawn	        1
Perkins, Kendrick	1
Wear, Travis	        1

Did I say something different than what you are saying??

Nope just adding to the conversation.

TheloniusMonk wrote:Did Ewing find the open man? Being the hall of famer he is. I remember people saying Ewing would get the ball and guys would stand around and watch. Olajuwan found the open man. And yes, superstars DO that. But why didn't Ewing? And when Ewing would go down, would not Starks and the fellas step WAY up? I get what DJ is saying. Shump and J.R. are not cut from that Starks, Oak, Mase cloth. Did they quit? Who knows? But his point is, "when Melo went down did those guys show you anything?". Can't say that they did.

Agreed 150%

All one need to know in this post is the Instagram fool
Idiot JR Smith had to post On ex Knicks teammates to make
Fun at NY organization ballclub whom could've packed these
2 quitters off to Twolves or as bad as nab team.

Not professional, tell me which pro sport guys you,know
Does this? And gets a fairytale ending of a title championship
In the end eh?

Shump JR, bomb will be tested once there is some challenges
That may lie ahead in Nba title playoff quest and how Cavs
Will deal with adversity.

Once quitters always quit, is how I see 2 Cavs former knickerbockers