His athleticism is NOT going to play in the NBA -- he is not Pau Gasol he is a solid piece on a good team -- not an elite talent you take top 3 in a draft.

LivingLegend wrote:Kaminsky is in no way shape or form a franchise level talent -- he is really no different from guys like K-Zeller and K-Olynk in my mind.

His athleticism is NOT going to play in the NBA -- he is not Pau Gasol he is a solid piece on a good team -- not an elite talent you take top 3 in a draft.

agreed. i think hell be a fine NBA player but not a franchise player. but no one truly knows. i guess only time will tell

LivingLegend wrote:Kaminsky is in no way shape or form a franchise level talent -- he is really no different from guys like K-Zeller and K-Olynk in my mind.

His athleticism is NOT going to play in the NBA -- he is not Pau Gasol he is a solid piece on a good team -- not an elite talent you take top 3 in a draft...

Do you also feel that OK4's athleticism is not going to play in the NBA? He is talented, but I would not classify his athleticism as "elite?"

Just wondering...

BRIGGS wrote:

RonRon wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

RonRon wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Not listing needs here just who I think is think is personally the BPA

1. Karl Anthony Towns

2. Jahill Okafor

3. Frank Kaminsky

4. Justice Winslow

5 Mario Hezonga

6 Deangelo Russell

7 Christian Wood

8 Emmanuel Mudiay

9 Jarell Martin

10 Kristaps Porzingis

11 Kelly Oubre
12 Tyus Jones

13 Stanley Johnson

14 Robert Upshaw

15 Bobby Portis

16 Willie Trill Stein

17 Cameron Payne

18 Trey Lyles

19 Devin Booker
20 Montrezl Harrell

21 Myles Turner

22 Rashaud Vaughn

23 Jerian Grant

24 Delon Wright

25 Rondae Jefferson

26 Sam Decker

27 Kevin Looney

28 Jordan Mickey

29 Tyler Harvey

30 Rayvonte Rice

31 Richaun Holmes

32 Joseph Young

33 Michael Qualls

34 Dakari Johnson

35 Oliver Hanlan

36 Dez Wells

37 Terry Rozier

38 Justin Andersen

39 Corey Hawkins

40 Derrick Marks

That is quite a reach for Wood and even Frank Kaminski
Pretty high for Robert Upshaw as well considering there are lot of BIGS in this draft class
I do not see Mudiay dropping past Philly and Lakers, though we do not know the order, those are the only 2 teams outside of the Knick's that need a PG, while many other teams already have one already

With that said, Mudiay does have a John Wall/Tyreke Evans type of ceiling, and does have the physical abilities to be an effective defender as well
His shooting is something that could be learned but he does in fact have a lot of talent/physical abilities that I am starting to warm up to
If Mudiay does drop I would love to acquire him along with a G/F like Henzoja or Winslow
I would still have interest in Shabazz and Tony Wroten, if we can buy low for them in a trade, and resigning Shved to a 2.5m to 3.3m 2year deal for further evaluation while giving him the opporutunity to compete for a starting job, depending on what positions we use for our picks/FA/d league callups/possible trades/undrafted talents...

I would love to acquire 2, with Towns/OK4 going 1st/2nd, of any of these talents if we trade down and/or make trades with future draft picks and/or with the possiblity of trading CA to move up with the assets to do so

Assuming Towns/OK4 are 1st/2nd then the guys below could be determined by team needs/draft order

Mudiay/Russell

Mario Henzoja/Justice Winslow

Kristaps Porzingis/Kaminski

For the 2nd round steals, I would love Dakari Johnson, Terry Rozier, Tyler Harvey, along with Marcus Thorton
For mid/late 1st rounders I think Delon Wright would be a steal as well
I see Trey Lyles as a YOUNG JOE SMITH type of talent/glue role player that played with KG as a solid role talent with good size and verastile skills/mid range game/rebounding/defense

This draft class has a LOT OF BIGS from the top of the draft to the 2nd round and some possible undrafted talents to work on....

Wood has unique characteristics that only he and Porzingis have in rd 1 from the 4 position. Upshaw wont be drafted at 14 because he smokes dope but he is around the 14th best just ahead of Stein. One guy I have gone over several time is Martin from LSU and finally moved him up to what I think might be right. Hes not a shotblocker and hes shorter than Wood and Porzinigis but hes very athletic and agile--and he played on a team where he had to split the interior scoring load---hes close with Lyles but I think Martin is more agile than Lyles. I put on the Portland board Id be all over Martin for their PF if he lasts to 23 and I would try to S+T Aldridge Matthews and Affalo and reboot with Leonard Martin Lillard and McCollum as my core. It is possible they could score very well in S+T and I would target teams like the Knicks and their first round pick by using Aldridge and his fifth year a target bait. I think he can be convinced into taking that 5th year in a S+T if he is willing to go to NY. If Im a team with a RFA or even a UFA if I see the Knicks dont get pick 1 or 2 then I might be very willing to offer a guy like Aldridge or Harris to them for that pick. If I was Paul Allen and his management team I wouldnt even call Phil Jackson--Id talk right to Dolan because Dolan can be convinced into a trade like that without question.

2nd round steals--not really this year too many good guards--a good drafting team should find a good player in rd 2 this year.

smoking Dope and smoking Weed *really isn't as bad as you make it sound, which is legal in many STATES already*
not saying that we should draft POT HEADS, of course any addictive behavior and partying life style could be red flagged however, my point is Alchohol could be much worse and is legal
However, additiction will always stay, it gets transferred to other obssessive behaviors that could be positive such as a workout regime
Chris Anderson has done far worse and is a very good role player for many years off the bench, while he had substance abuse, and turned his addition to the basketball courts/tattoos, while having a solid NBA career despite not being a prospect

If NBA talents smoke weed in the off season, I really would have no problem with it just as long as they are able to still train/develop their games

Well smoking dope is going to cost him atleast 2.5mm over 2 years at a minimum---maybe much more and it will give teams serious pause even if they think he is late lottery talent. Its very hard to get involved with an individual with problems like that--it often turns out poorly. But I always like to think the best of people--Id like to think that he can be smart about it--and put that away for when his career is over. There is a certain responsibility we all have in our business years and its one thing to do something once in awhile--another to wake up and go look for your bong pipe or bottle.

BRIGGS you realize the majority of NBA players smoke weed right? The NBA doesn't even suspend for positive marijuana tests til a player fails over 3 times. There is a reason the policy is so lenient and it isn't because guys aren't smoking pot rendering testing unnecessary, LOL.

This kid may fall in the draft because of weed but that's just silly and just because of dumb moral BS that our society shoves down our throats. Teams are afraid of the PR hit not that they think this guy is going to be some head case cause he smokes pot.

It's completely ridiculous too that players can drink alcohol and go clubbing and get drunk and nobody bats an eye. Alcohol is just as addictive as weed (PEOPLE get addicted to substances, it isn't the substances fault--like, should we ban donuts and candy because people have heart attacks or get cavities?? No of course not it's the individual who is irresponsible eating too many cruellers or skittles). Alcohol is WORSE physically and mentally than pot. It's a proven fact. So is tobacco.

CrushAlot wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

RonRon wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

RonRon wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Not listing needs here just who I think is think is personally the BPA

1. Karl Anthony Towns

2. Jahill Okafor

3. Frank Kaminsky

4. Justice Winslow

5 Mario Hezonga

6 Deangelo Russell

7 Christian Wood

8 Emmanuel Mudiay

9 Jarell Martin

10 Kristaps Porzingis

11 Kelly Oubre
12 Tyus Jones

13 Stanley Johnson

14 Robert Upshaw

15 Bobby Portis

16 Willie Trill Stein

17 Cameron Payne

18 Trey Lyles

19 Devin Booker
20 Montrezl Harrell

21 Myles Turner

22 Rashaud Vaughn

23 Jerian Grant

24 Delon Wright

25 Rondae Jefferson

26 Sam Decker

27 Kevin Looney

28 Jordan Mickey

29 Tyler Harvey

30 Rayvonte Rice

31 Richaun Holmes

32 Joseph Young

33 Michael Qualls

34 Dakari Johnson

35 Oliver Hanlan

36 Dez Wells

37 Terry Rozier

38 Justin Andersen

39 Corey Hawkins

40 Derrick Marks

That is quite a reach for Wood and even Frank Kaminski
Pretty high for Robert Upshaw as well considering there are lot of BIGS in this draft class
I do not see Mudiay dropping past Philly and Lakers, though we do not know the order, those are the only 2 teams outside of the Knick's that need a PG, while many other teams already have one already

With that said, Mudiay does have a John Wall/Tyreke Evans type of ceiling, and does have the physical abilities to be an effective defender as well
His shooting is something that could be learned but he does in fact have a lot of talent/physical abilities that I am starting to warm up to
If Mudiay does drop I would love to acquire him along with a G/F like Henzoja or Winslow
I would still have interest in Shabazz and Tony Wroten, if we can buy low for them in a trade, and resigning Shved to a 2.5m to 3.3m 2year deal for further evaluation while giving him the opporutunity to compete for a starting job, depending on what positions we use for our picks/FA/d league callups/possible trades/undrafted talents...

I would love to acquire 2, with Towns/OK4 going 1st/2nd, of any of these talents if we trade down and/or make trades with future draft picks and/or with the possiblity of trading CA to move up with the assets to do so

Assuming Towns/OK4 are 1st/2nd then the guys below could be determined by team needs/draft order

Mudiay/Russell

Mario Henzoja/Justice Winslow

Kristaps Porzingis/Kaminski

For the 2nd round steals, I would love Dakari Johnson, Terry Rozier, Tyler Harvey, along with Marcus Thorton
For mid/late 1st rounders I think Delon Wright would be a steal as well
I see Trey Lyles as a YOUNG JOE SMITH type of talent/glue role player that played with KG as a solid role talent with good size and verastile skills/mid range game/rebounding/defense

This draft class has a LOT OF BIGS from the top of the draft to the 2nd round and some possible undrafted talents to work on....

Wood has unique characteristics that only he and Porzingis have in rd 1 from the 4 position. Upshaw wont be drafted at 14 because he smokes dope but he is around the 14th best just ahead of Stein. One guy I have gone over several time is Martin from LSU and finally moved him up to what I think might be right. Hes not a shotblocker and hes shorter than Wood and Porzinigis but hes very athletic and agile--and he played on a team where he had to split the interior scoring load---hes close with Lyles but I think Martin is more agile than Lyles. I put on the Portland board Id be all over Martin for their PF if he lasts to 23 and I would try to S+T Aldridge Matthews and Affalo and reboot with Leonard Martin Lillard and McCollum as my core. It is possible they could score very well in S+T and I would target teams like the Knicks and their first round pick by using Aldridge and his fifth year a target bait. I think he can be convinced into taking that 5th year in a S+T if he is willing to go to NY. If Im a team with a RFA or even a UFA if I see the Knicks dont get pick 1 or 2 then I might be very willing to offer a guy like Aldridge or Harris to them for that pick. If I was Paul Allen and his management team I wouldnt even call Phil Jackson--Id talk right to Dolan because Dolan can be convinced into a trade like that without question.

2nd round steals--not really this year too many good guards--a good drafting team should find a good player in rd 2 this year.

smoking Dope and smoking Weed *really isn't as bad as you make it sound, which is legal in many STATES already*
not saying that we should draft POT HEADS, of course any addictive behavior and partying life style could be red flagged however, my point is Alchohol could be much worse and is legal
However, additiction will always stay, it gets transferred to other obssessive behaviors that could be positive such as a workout regime
Chris Anderson has done far worse and is a very good role player for many years off the bench, while he had substance abuse, and turned his addition to the basketball courts/tattoos, while having a solid NBA career despite not being a prospect

If NBA talents smoke weed in the off season, I really would have no problem with it just as long as they are able to still train/develop their games

Well smoking dope is going to cost him atleast 2.5mm over 2 years at a minimum---maybe much more and it will give teams serious pause even if they think he is late lottery talent. Its very hard to get involved with an individual with problems like that--it often turns out poorly. But I always like to think the best of people--Id like to think that he can be smart about it--and put that away for when his career is over. There is a certain responsibility we all have in our business years and its one thing to do something once in awhile--another to wake up and go look for your bong pipe or bottle.

BRIGGS you realize the majority of NBA players smoke weed right? The NBA doesn't even suspend for positive marijuana tests til a player fails over 3 times. There is a reason the policy is so lenient and it isn't because guys aren't smoking pot rendering testing unnecessary, LOL.

This kid may fall in the draft because of weed but that's just silly and just because of dumb moral BS that our society shoves down our throats. Teams are afraid of the PR hit not that they think this guy is going to be some head case cause he smokes pot.

It's completely ridiculous too that players can drink alcohol and go clubbing and get drunk and nobody bats an eye. Alcohol is just as addictive as weed (PEOPLE get addicted to substances, it isn't the substances fault--like, should we ban donuts and candy because people have heart attacks or get cavities?? No of course not it's the individual who is irresponsible eating too many cruellers or skittles). Alcohol is WORSE physically and mentally than pot. It's a proven fact. So is tobacco.

The kid was Kicked out of two colleges. His second school reportedly did a background check before having him go there. A lot of kids smoke in college. This kid was kicked out of two schools. Is there any documentation that it as just for smoking pot? If so I think he is worthy of a late first round pick. If there are other issues then my guess is teams stay away.

Oh ok. It's one thing to smoke a little weed and another to be a continual knucklehead getting booted left and right from school.

LivingLegend wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Kaminsky is in no way shape or form a franchise level talent -- he is really no different from guys like K-Zeller and K-Olynk in my mind.

His athleticism is NOT going to play in the NBA -- he is not Pau Gasol he is a solid piece on a good team -- not an elite talent you take top 3 in a draft...

So when you talk about "elite talent" are you talking about players like Beasley, Thabeet, Derrick Williams, Bennett, Porter, Kanter, Turner, Wesley Johnson, Morrison, Mayo, Tyrus Thomas, Shelden Williams, or Marvin Williams? (most were top 3 picks)

Do you also feel that OK4's athleticism is not going to play in the NBA? He is talented, but I would not classify his athleticism as "elite?"

Just wondering...

Of the guys you mentioned I thought both Beasley & Mayo would be stars. The rest I probably liked to varying degrees but again I'd compare a Frank to the guys I mentioned.

No - Okafor doesn't have elite athleticism but he has elite skill, elite feet and elite strength.

His shooting is an issue and his D is poor - at least initially.

To follow up - I think the list you provided is a great example of how we all tend to overrate these kids coming into the league. We are probably doing it with the top 4 players and also with Frank.