BigDaddyG wrote:

WOODMANnYk wrote:I would take the Kentucky big man over the Duke big man. Towns over Okafor any day of the week. Duke program not known for developing a surplus of big man. Kentucky on the other hand has. Most of them NBA ready.. Cousins, A. Davis, Noel. Nazr M. from the past.. Duke known for SF. and guards.. Okafor going to be like his older cousin Emeka, injury prone..

Mike Giminski, Christian Laetner, Elton Brand, Mile Plumlee and Mason Plumlee had or look like they will have solid NBA careers. Josh McRoberts is also hanging tough. The jury is still out on Jabari Parker, who will probably end up playing power forward, but his future looks positive.

...Carlos Boozer...

WaltLongmire wrote:I have no doubt that OK4 will be a fine offensive player in this league.

The question with him still concerns his defensive presence as a big man.

Here is the simple Catch-22 for the Knicks and OK4...

If he plays 4 for us, Anthony is at 3, and you have the makings of a defensively challenged frontline with at least two players who are very slow for their respective positions. (Also means you have to find a 5 to clean up their mess.) Both of them will score, but will they give up more than they put in?

If he plays 5 you have a potentially weak defender at the position where we are desperate for a rim protector. This problem is further exacerbated if Anthony has to move to the 4- you then have two weak rim protectors in the positions you depend on for shot blocking.

The most important aspect of OK4s development once he is in the league will be his progress as a defender.

I can go back and there are 50 of these posts about Blake Griffin. Its pretty simple its either you see it or you don't. I don't see any logic drafting a player based on what I have--you take the bets long term prospect at 2-3. Carmelo is 30 coming off knee surgery and Ok4 is 19. One reason why I have been touting Christian Wood(or a player like him) is that we can find a mobile 4-5 who can block shots--something like what OKC has with Ibaka to pair with Ok4. Ok4 can come off the bench to start whatever---Im in no rush as a fan--I just want the thing built right. I DO NOT want an express train rebuild just to get an 8th seed. I will be VERY surprised if Okafor is not a top 3 or even the best player in this draft when all is said and done. I can just see how effective he will be with his skill level for a team in the post--he'll be a tough guard and he is a willing passer--I just think hes going to be great.

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

WOODMANnYk wrote:I would take the Kentucky big man over the Duke big man. Towns over Okafor any day of the week. Duke program not known for developing a surplus of big man. Kentucky on the other hand has. Most of them NBA ready.. Cousins, A. Davis, Noel. Nazr M. from the past.. Duke known for SF. and guards.. Okafor going to be like his older cousin Emeka, injury prone..

Mike Giminski, Christian Laetner, Elton Brand, Mile Plumlee and Mason Plumlee had or look like they will have solid NBA careers. Josh McRoberts is also hanging tough. The jury is still out on Jabari Parker, who will probably end up playing power forward, but his future looks positive.

...Carlos Boozer...

Forgot about Boozer. He was a legitimate All-Stat in Utah.

Okafor should be much better in the Pros since there will be more space and he'd have a player like Melo that teams would have to also pay attention to. I can see him being good relatively early on. I think OK4 will get better defensively with more attention to that part of his game. He's got some good length and should be able to learn how to alter shots even if he doesn't block a lot of them.

BRIGGS wrote:watching these games--there is simply no one who can guard a 6-10 265 pounder with his skill near the hoop. Looking at GS they simply had no one to go to in the post when they need shots and while Green gave his effort he got outplayed by Zach Randolph in the paint. Okafor I think will be a bigger better version of Randolph.

Will he make foul shots down the stretch or be able to step out to 18 feet on the wing and knock down jump shots like Zach does?

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

WOODMANnYk wrote:Whats up fellas..

Lol. Bro, he didn't even show up in the biggest game of his college career, the championship game vs Wisconsin.
Also, he can't dominate the playoffs cause he's a very poor free throw shooter.

He let Kami sky outplay him in the championship game.

Just as STOPSTANDTHERE just recently said: let's see him play games in the NBA level regular season first..

Blake Griffin was a poor FT shooter in college and the first 3 years in the nBA-but Im sure there are 30 other teams who wish they had him right about now. Im eager to see Okafor in the NBA--in college basketball you play with very little spacing and on top of it the kid dealt with double and triple teaming. His combination of power quickness and touch with his size is RARE--something between Cousins and randolph. Right away smaller NBA players are going to see what a load this guy is. Also hes a guy who will be shooting FT at 75% within 2 years--thats not something Id worry about. Hes going to be great.

Okafor has a very broken foul shot and jump shot -- it is no guarantee that he is going to fix either.

I do like him - he's a beast but he does scare me with his inability to shoot from outside of 7-8 feet. He has no clue on his foul shot -- he's basically throwing it up in the air and hoping it catches iron. It's amazing that a player with such great hands and touch around the rim (this isn't Chandler or D-Jordan or WCS) has zero touch at the line and outside of 10 feet. Just weird that he can't get that.

Guys with enormous hands can often have some trouble shooting the ball. Catching and Laying it up is much easier, but shooting jumpers and FT's can be a bit more difficult with such huge hands. I actually do think Okafor will develop his shot. I expect he'll get with a shooting guru to help him work on his form. He's been working on that Duncan bank shot.

Really tho why even worry about him making jumpers? He's able to hold his position in the post and pass out of the post not to mention score in a myriad of ways in the post. If he came to the Knicks he'd be right at home in the Triangle and wouldn't have to worry about Shooting jumpers that much at all. Even if he's never great at FT shooting, he'd be able to draw fouls which is a plus in itself.

RonRon wrote:It is apples and oranges, just because ONE player does well at PF, doesn't mean another WILL
OK4 is much closer to Center than PF, especially with the league using more stretch 4's and BIG SF's that could play PF now, the traditional PF is almost dead already, and must have at least a solid MID RANGE game which OK4 doesn't have or the mobility to defend those type of players either

And in order to have a PF like that, you will need VERY GOOD DEFENDERS in EVERY OTHER POSITION that could hold their own and help, while being able to recover in time with HIGH IQ, which we do not have, especially considering CA's weakness's

RonRon wrote:

nixluva wrote:

RonRon wrote:It is apples and oranges, just because ONE player does well at PF, doesn't mean another WILL
OK4 is much closer to Center than PF, especially with the league using more stretch 4's and BIG SF's that could play PF now, the traditional PF is almost dead already, and must have at least a solid MID RANGE game which OK4 doesn't have or the mobility to defend those type of players either

And in order to have a PF like that, you will need VERY GOOD DEFENDERS in EVERY OTHER POSITION that could hold their own and help, while being able to recover in time with HIGH IQ, which we do not have, especially considering CA's weakness's

Actually we are beginning to build in more defenders. Galloway, Thomas, Early, Amundson and Cole are solid defenders off the bench. Acy a little less so. I can see Thanasis also adding some more defensive punch. If Phil adds another shot blocking C and a defensive guard like Danny Green, this team could be much improved defensively, despite Melo.

I am reffering more to Briggs suggestion of OK4 at the PF with CA here as a NYK
That is already 2/5 weakness's to exploit, not including possible our PG, you cannot make up for those weakness's on DEFENSE, that is why weak defenders are generally bench players or weak OFF players as well

When ok4 is at his peak in 3 years CA will only be a memory of a KNick.

RonRon wrote:

nixluva wrote:

RonRon wrote:It is apples and oranges, just because ONE player does well at PF, doesn't mean another WILL
OK4 is much closer to Center than PF, especially with the league using more stretch 4's and BIG SF's that could play PF now, the traditional PF is almost dead already, and must have at least a solid MID RANGE game which OK4 doesn't have or the mobility to defend those type of players either

And in order to have a PF like that, you will need VERY GOOD DEFENDERS in EVERY OTHER POSITION that could hold their own and help, while being able to recover in time with HIGH IQ, which we do not have, especially considering CA's weakness's

Actually we are beginning to build in more defenders. Galloway, Thomas, Early, Amundson and Cole are solid defenders off the bench. Acy a little less so. I can see Thanasis also adding some more defensive punch. If Phil adds another shot blocking C and a defensive guard like Danny Green, this team could be much improved defensively, despite Melo.

I am reffering more to Briggs suggestion of OK4 at the PF with CA here as a NYK
That is already 2/5 weakness's to exploit, not including possible our PG, you cannot make up for those weakness's on DEFENSE, that is why weak defenders are generally bench players or weak OFF players as well

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

RonRon wrote:

nixluva wrote:

RonRon wrote:It is apples and oranges, just because ONE player does well at PF, doesn't mean another WILL
OK4 is much closer to Center than PF, especially with the league using more stretch 4's and BIG SF's that could play PF now, the traditional PF is almost dead already, and must have at least a solid MID RANGE game which OK4 doesn't have or the mobility to defend those type of players either

And in order to have a PF like that, you will need VERY GOOD DEFENDERS in EVERY OTHER POSITION that could hold their own and help, while being able to recover in time with HIGH IQ, which we do not have, especially considering CA's weakness's

Actually we are beginning to build in more defenders. Galloway, Thomas, Early, Amundson and Cole are solid defenders off the bench. Acy a little less so. I can see Thanasis also adding some more defensive punch. If Phil adds another shot blocking C and a defensive guard like Danny Green, this team could be much improved defensively, despite Melo.

I am reffering more to Briggs suggestion of OK4 at the PF with CA here as a NYK
That is already 2/5 weakness's to exploit, not including possible our PG, you cannot make up for those weakness's on DEFENSE, that is why weak defenders are generally bench players or weak OFF players as well

When ok4 is at his peak in 3 years CA will only be a memory of a KNick.

We don't really know that. Melo could transition like Paul Pierce. Melo has so much skill that isn't related to great athletic ability. He can most certainly adjust to a lower impact style and still be effective on a high level. Melo's game isn't about dunking and super quick moves. He's just gotta be smarter in terms of how he takes care of his jumpers Knee, which is basically what he has. Melo has developed his Dirk Fadeaway, which I think would serve him well for a longer career.

I agree completely with this. I think Melo will be able to have a long career like Dirk and Pierce. The good thing about the Triangle is that it allows him to be a mid-post player and show off those moves. That's how Kobe and Jordan were able to prolong their careers, too, in the Triangle. That's the one part of the Knicks I'm not too worried about.

BRIGGS wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:I have no doubt that OK4 will be a fine offensive player in this league.

The question with him still concerns his defensive presence as a big man.

Here is the simple Catch-22 for the Knicks and OK4...

If he plays 4 for us, Anthony is at 3, and you have the makings of a defensively challenged frontline with at least two players who are very slow for their respective positions. (Also means you have to find a 5 to clean up their mess.) Both of them will score, but will they give up more than they put in?

If he plays 5 you have a potentially weak defender at the position where we are desperate for a rim protector. This problem is further exacerbated if Anthony has to move to the 4- you then have two weak rim protectors in the positions you depend on for shot blocking.

The most important aspect of OK4s development once he is in the league will be his progress as a defender.

I can go back and there are 50 of these posts about Blake Griffin. Its pretty simple its either you see it or you don't. I don't see any logic drafting a player based on what I have--you take the bets long term prospect at 2-3. Carmelo is 30 coming off knee surgery and Ok4 is 19. One reason why I have been touting Christian Wood(or a player like him) is that we can find a mobile 4-5 who can block shots--something like what OKC has with Ibaka to pair with Ok4. Ok4 can come off the bench to start whatever---Im in no rush as a fan--I just want the thing built right. I DO NOT want an express train rebuild just to get an 8th seed. I will be VERY surprised if Okafor is not a top 3 or even the best player in this draft when all is said and done. I can just see how effective he will be with his skill level for a team in the post--he'll be a tough guard and he is a willing passer--I just think hes going to be great.

Blake has Jordan on his team, helps him out and allows him to be more aggressive on D in some ways because he knows Jordan can clean many of his mistakes.

Kanter, a limited defender, has Ibaka. Ibaka will also allow guys like Durant and Westbrook be more aggressive playing the passing lanes at times, because he's a good shot blocker.

So you would take OK4 over Towns at this point??

I'd be more than happy if we ended up with OK4, but I'm not ready to close my eyes to the potential issues that arise on the defensive end if we have him, and I believe he will end up being a center when all is said and done.

As for being in "no rush as a fan," you and I don't run the team. I think Phil would rather see some significant movement in terms of our record next year. I don't think he's going to be foolish and attempt to build a team that will never be better than the 7th or 8th seed in the East, but I also believe that he cares about his short term legacy, and doesn't want to step away and let another GM start another rebuild.

His biggest "move" so far was resigning Anthony to a contract that many (myself included) did not like, and he is wed to that decision and its consequences. This draft has to take Anthony into consideration, so in this way, I disagree with you here.

The Knicks have many holes to fill, but Anthony is here for at least the next 3 years, and you have to take into consideration his presence and his strengths and weaknesses, in one way or another