smackeddog wrote:Begley article saying Knicks top 5 is:

1. Towns
2. OK4
3. Mudiay
4. Russell
5. wilmslow

Thats all BS

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Nalod wrote:Briggs, interesting thought. Stein in the mold of Horace Grant type? Stein might have more offense in him than we know.
Trade down is interesting. Take Wallace and a boston pick for cap space is interesting.

Its not about cap space as 2016 all teams will have it. Its about us getting talent.

Stein can play 4-5 so it fits. I mean Phil pretty much had the name Stein roll out of his mouth and called Okafor Olkwandi--thats should give a little insight. Hopefully we get the higher draft pick so we can trade down but we may just take Stein at 2. I think Phil would be happier at 3-4--no pressure that way.

Dude you're trippin. WCS @ 2 would be lynch mobs bum rushing the Garden.

If we go by Phils words--the odds of him taking Okafor is likely low. He doesnt want a PG and he basically said Stein when he was talking. It would be best if we won the lottery--thats what I think. I think Phil likes Stein and Kaminsky better than he likes other guys. Thats just my opinion trippin or not.

I have no problem with Phil liking Stein as a defensive anchor. He's actually a better version of Tyson Chandler. He's got way more lateral quickness and agility than Tyson and he's even got more offensive ability than Tyson. He's not a superstar, but at least he has a clear role as an NBA player. Stein can cover ground like a much smaller player and with his length it just makes him a very high quality help defender. I think Stein could end up as a bigger, better version of Kenyon Martin. Stein would just make your overall defense better by a wide margin. Especially if you can add other defenders like Galloway and DeMarre Carroll around him.

I disagree with Stein being a better Tyson. People forget what Tyson was as a prospect coming into the league. The guards he went up against as a junior pails in comparison to what he will face in the NBA. Also there is nothing in his pass that says he can do more than catch lobs. Tyson coming out was more like Towns in High School. Tyson's fall back was to become the player he is today. What would be Stein's fall back? If his ceiling is just a lob and D guy who may not be as good a rebounder as Tyson, I don't think that is worth a top 10 pick,imo. Players with specific skills like Stein can be found later in the draft.

Wow, I think I defend Tyson more than Bonn. lol. smh

The statement is crazy. It's not even clear what the comparison is (Tyson now vs. Stein now? Tyson in high school vs. Stein in college?) I can't really imagine any version of it that would make sense though. If you want a guy with pretty, versatile offense, fine but you can't just completely ignore current production. Tyson just averaged 10 and 12 against a healthy Dwight Howard. Stein is averaging half of that against college kids. Nixluva is a fan of the Win Share method for every player except Tyson Chandler

I don't discount Tyson as a very productive player. I simply don't talk about him since there's no way in HADES he's an option this summer. So why would I tout him as a player when there's no way he's an option for this team? I don't talk about Dirk or Duncan either.

As for Stein I think his agility and lateral quickness will translate in the NBA. Tyson is listed as 7'1" 240 and Stein is listed at 7'.5" 240. I think Stein gets killed for staying in school and I actually think it has helped him. Tyson is more of a help defender than great man defender and so is Stein. In fact I think Stein will be an even better help defender. He's much more mobile and agile than Tyson. He already has more offensive ability than Tyson. Tho not great it's a better starting point then Tyson.

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Begley article saying Knicks top 5 is:

1. Towns
2. OK4
3. Mudiay
4. Russell
5. wilmslow

Thats all BS

Care to explain? What's far fetched? Your prediction is: 1. WCS, which is much less plausible

No I said he would take Towns 1 but from there hed take Stein

smackeddog wrote:Begley article saying Knicks top 5 is:

1. Towns
2. OK4
3. Mudiay
4. Russell
5. wilmslow

LOL That's my exact top 5

Doubt Begley has this kind of access though. Especially since he is an espn guy who does nothing but take shots at the Knicks

gunsnewing wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Begley article saying Knicks top 5 is:

1. Towns
2. OK4
3. Mudiay
4. Russell
5. wilmslow

LOL That's my exact top 5

Doubt Begley has this kind of access though. Especially since he is an espn guy who does nothing but take shots at the Knicks

If you read the article, it says Chad Ford got the info. Again, Chad Ford once got EVERY SINGLE PICK IN THE FIRST ROUND WRONG in one of his mocks. Teams lie to him because they know it will be public info and they want to smoke screen.

That said, that's the defacto top five of every team in the league right now. But that could change based on lotto position and individual workouts.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Nalod wrote:Briggs, interesting thought. Stein in the mold of Horace Grant type? Stein might have more offense in him than we know.
Trade down is interesting. Take Wallace and a boston pick for cap space is interesting.

Its not about cap space as 2016 all teams will have it. Its about us getting talent.

Stein can play 4-5 so it fits. I mean Phil pretty much had the name Stein roll out of his mouth and called Okafor Olkwandi--thats should give a little insight. Hopefully we get the higher draft pick so we can trade down but we may just take Stein at 2. I think Phil would be happier at 3-4--no pressure that way.

Dude you're trippin. WCS @ 2 would be lynch mobs bum rushing the Garden.

If we go by Phils words--the odds of him taking Okafor is likely low. He doesnt want a PG and he basically said Stein when he was talking. It would be best if we won the lottery--thats what I think. I think Phil likes Stein and Kaminsky better than he likes other guys. Thats just my opinion trippin or not.

I have no problem with Phil liking Stein as a defensive anchor. He's actually a better version of Tyson Chandler. He's got way more lateral quickness and agility than Tyson and he's even got more offensive ability than Tyson. He's not a superstar, but at least he has a clear role as an NBA player. Stein can cover ground like a much smaller player and with his length it just makes him a very high quality help defender. I think Stein could end up as a bigger, better version of Kenyon Martin. Stein would just make your overall defense better by a wide margin. Especially if you can add other defenders like Galloway and DeMarre Carroll around him.

I disagree with Stein being a better Tyson. People forget what Tyson was as a prospect coming into the league. The guards he went up against as a junior pails in comparison to what he will face in the NBA. Also there is nothing in his pass that says he can do more than catch lobs. Tyson coming out was more like Towns in High School. Tyson's fall back was to become the player he is today. What would be Stein's fall back? If his ceiling is just a lob and D guy who may not be as good a rebounder as Tyson, I don't think that is worth a top 10 pick,imo. Players with specific skills like Stein can be found later in the draft.

Wow, I think I defend Tyson more than Bonn. lol. smh

The statement is crazy. It's not even clear what the comparison is (Tyson now vs. Stein now? Tyson in high school vs. Stein in college?) I can't really imagine any version of it that would make sense though. If you want a guy with pretty, versatile offense, fine but you can't just completely ignore current production. Tyson just averaged 10 and 12 against a healthy Dwight Howard. Stein is averaging half of that against college kids. Nixluva is a fan of the Win Share method for every player except Tyson Chandler

I don't discount Tyson as a very productive player. I simply don't talk about him since there's no way in HADES he's an option this summer. So why would I tout him as a player when there's no way he's an option for this team? I don't talk about Dirk or Duncan either.

As for Stein I think his agility and lateral quickness will translate in the NBA. Tyson is listed as 7'1" 240 and Stein is listed at 7'.5" 240. I think Stein gets killed for staying in school and I actually think it has helped him. Tyson is more of a help defender than great man defender and so is Stein. In fact I think Stein will be an even better help defender. He's much more mobile and agile than Tyson. He already has more offensive ability than Tyson. Tho not great it's a better starting point then Tyson.

Well if you took an objective look at the win shares, you'd probably be listing Tyson and hoping Phil would profusely apologize and beg him to come back. Not saying Phil should do that - I'm not as hardcore win shares as you seem to be.
What does it mean to say Stein has more offensive ability than Tyson. Why is Tyson averaging more points against NBA opponents than Stein is against college kids?

This is just BS for you to get on my case about a player we just traded and who has no chance of coming back. Why should I be listing Tyson in my list of likely targets? It's a waste of time. I'm not hardcore win shares. I'm merely using ALL of the advanced stats so that people can have a clear set of criteria to base their arguments on. You are simply looking to make trouble for me with this Tyson thing. Tyson is 32 and is in a very high Cap level. Tyson had his chance here and we need to move on. There's no reason to consider him as a piece for this team's future.

Regarding Stein as a college prospect, I really can't understand why you're talking about the player Tyson is now, a vet in the NBA and Stein who is a college prospect. Can we give Stein time to develop as a player as Tyson has. You're so in a hurry to have something to bash me about that you're not using logic or reason and certainly are not using any perspective. I think Stein could end up being better than Tyson. That's not a guarantee, just an observation based on what i've seen of the kids ability at this stage.

I tried to get you to clarify the time points in their careers you were referring to. If you're comparing Tyson now with the improvement you imagine Stein will have in the future, then fine, but there's nothing to discuss. Anyone can imagine anything.
We could compare their stats now but Tyson is putting up better #s against NBA opponents than Stein against college. We could look at stats from when they both played at the high school level (since Chandler never played college).
As a high school senior, Stein averaged 12 points, 4 rbs and 0.4 blocks. Tyson averaged 26 points, 15 rbs, and 8 blocks a game. Stein hasn't really produced much at any level. If we were talking about a late 1st round pick, I'd be all on board but that's it.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Phil Jackson is not drafting Stein as the player who is turning this franchise around.

i would not expect any of the players drafted to be able to do that. you change around franchises with once-in-a-generation talent and then a notch below that will all-nba first teamers. do you see anyone on this list that you are comfortable saying is of this caliber? i don't, and if that is the case, i draft the best genuine two-way player available if i happen to be so fortunate. if i am not so fortunate then i am forced to consider trading my top pick and trade down for two high first-rounders.

my hope is we get towns. if we are in a position to draft okafor or russell, i trade down and try to pick up either winslow and kaminsky.

winslow projects to be a leonard/butler/george type which would be great and is the next-best two-way player after towns. and kaminsky is going to be a good fit in the triangle as a small forward or power forward. maybe not an all-star but close. and i would give winslow a couple of years to develop... i have high hopes for him.

i am a big fan of stein but it would not be a good fit here for him. i don't mind the non-shooting but it is not clear that he will be a good enough passer as a pro, though i'd love to be proven wrong because if he developed passing skills he would become something special.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Nalod wrote:Briggs, interesting thought. Stein in the mold of Horace Grant type? Stein might have more offense in him than we know.
Trade down is interesting. Take Wallace and a boston pick for cap space is interesting.

Its not about cap space as 2016 all teams will have it. Its about us getting talent.

Stein can play 4-5 so it fits. I mean Phil pretty much had the name Stein roll out of his mouth and called Okafor Olkwandi--thats should give a little insight. Hopefully we get the higher draft pick so we can trade down but we may just take Stein at 2. I think Phil would be happier at 3-4--no pressure that way.

Dude you're trippin. WCS @ 2 would be lynch mobs bum rushing the Garden.

If we go by Phils words--the odds of him taking Okafor is likely low. He doesnt want a PG and he basically said Stein when he was talking. It would be best if we won the lottery--thats what I think. I think Phil likes Stein and Kaminsky better than he likes other guys. Thats just my opinion trippin or not.

I have no problem with Phil liking Stein as a defensive anchor. He's actually a better version of Tyson Chandler. He's got way more lateral quickness and agility than Tyson and he's even got more offensive ability than Tyson. He's not a superstar, but at least he has a clear role as an NBA player. Stein can cover ground like a much smaller player and with his length it just makes him a very high quality help defender. I think Stein could end up as a bigger, better version of Kenyon Martin. Stein would just make your overall defense better by a wide margin. Especially if you can add other defenders like Galloway and DeMarre Carroll around him.

I disagree with Stein being a better Tyson. People forget what Tyson was as a prospect coming into the league. The guards he went up against as a junior pails in comparison to what he will face in the NBA. Also there is nothing in his pass that says he can do more than catch lobs. Tyson coming out was more like Towns in High School. Tyson's fall back was to become the player he is today. What would be Stein's fall back? If his ceiling is just a lob and D guy who may not be as good a rebounder as Tyson, I don't think that is worth a top 10 pick,imo. Players with specific skills like Stein can be found later in the draft.

Wow, I think I defend Tyson more than Bonn. lol. smh

The statement is crazy. It's not even clear what the comparison is (Tyson now vs. Stein now? Tyson in high school vs. Stein in college?) I can't really imagine any version of it that would make sense though. If you want a guy with pretty, versatile offense, fine but you can't just completely ignore current production. Tyson just averaged 10 and 12 against a healthy Dwight Howard. Stein is averaging half of that against college kids. Nixluva is a fan of the Win Share method for every player except Tyson Chandler

I don't discount Tyson as a very productive player. I simply don't talk about him since there's no way in HADES he's an option this summer. So why would I tout him as a player when there's no way he's an option for this team? I don't talk about Dirk or Duncan either.

As for Stein I think his agility and lateral quickness will translate in the NBA. Tyson is listed as 7'1" 240 and Stein is listed at 7'.5" 240. I think Stein gets killed for staying in school and I actually think it has helped him. Tyson is more of a help defender than great man defender and so is Stein. In fact I think Stein will be an even better help defender. He's much more mobile and agile than Tyson. He already has more offensive ability than Tyson. Tho not great it's a better starting point then Tyson.

Well if you took an objective look at the win shares, you'd probably be listing Tyson and hoping Phil would profusely apologize and beg him to come back. Not saying Phil should do that - I'm not as hardcore win shares as you seem to be.
What does it mean to say Stein has more offensive ability than Tyson. Why is Tyson averaging more points against NBA opponents than Stein is against college kids?

This is just BS for you to get on my case about a player we just traded and who has no chance of coming back. Why should I be listing Tyson in my list of likely targets? It's a waste of time. I'm not hardcore win shares. I'm merely using ALL of the advanced stats so that people can have a clear set of criteria to base their arguments on. You are simply looking to make trouble for me with this Tyson thing. Tyson is 32 and is in a very high Cap level. Tyson had his chance here and we need to move on. There's no reason to consider him as a piece for this team's future.

Regarding Stein as a college prospect, I really can't understand why you're talking about the player Tyson is now, a vet in the NBA and Stein who is a college prospect. Can we give Stein time to develop as a player as Tyson has. You're so in a hurry to have something to bash me about that you're not using logic or reason and certainly are not using any perspective. I think Stein could end up being better than Tyson. That's not a guarantee, just an observation based on what i've seen of the kids ability at this stage.

I tried to get you to clarify the time points in their careers you were referring to. If you're comparing Tyson now with the improvement you imagine Stein will have in the future, then fine, but there's nothing to discuss. Anyone can imagine anything.
We could compare their stats now but Tyson is putting up better #s against NBA opponents than Stein against college. We could look at stats from when they both played at the high school level (since Chandler never played college).
As a high school senior, Stein averaged 12 points, 4 rbs and 0.4 blocks. Tyson averaged 26 points, 15 rbs, and 8 blocks a game. Stein hasn't really produced much at any level. If we were talking about a late 1st round pick, I'd be all on board but that's it.

All anyone is saying is that Stein has a very similar physical talent as Tyson. He's about the same size and weight. Stein can run the floor, catch and finish just as well. Stein IMO has much more agility and lateral quickness. Stein is only 21 and still has time to develop and get stronger. Let's just leave it at that.