fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I dont understand the thread... what PGs have we brought in? Felton played better here than anywhere else. Linsanity happened here, we just didnt resign him. Langston is an undrafted FA we groomed nicely into a legit NBA player. Maybe your blaming the Knicks for the demise of Mike Bibby?

I read this thread as we should draft Russell - which I kinda agree with, but obviously I'm not in the same position to judge talent like our FO is.

I tend to think today's game is having athletic, skilled smalls that can attack, hit shots and pass and then bigs who are workmanlike, lunch pail guys that set screens, defend and rebound and then hit the open shot when its there.

Im a huge DR fan. Huge. If we took him #1 I would not only bat an eye I would be thrilled because I totally agree with you and if they took this kid #1 after all the workouts etc it would just confirm what I already suspect and thats he's the best BB player in this draft.

I totally agree

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:Harper, childs and Ward were as good as the other 4 around them.
Harper was great, but he was at the end of his career and he did ok on a very good team.
Childs was usually out of shape, injured and inconsistant. His last contract he mailed it in.
Ward was ok, but really limited. He had good leadership skills and was ok, but at the time a weak link.

Whats your point? Saw an article that fans want Calderon gone? Of course they do. Fans what to change whats in front of them.

10 roster spots open. Looks like we took it down to the studs. YOu want to harp about the moldy walls, creaky floors and falling ceiling?
What can you say? "Do something about it"?
Looks like 10 roster spots open Phils on it.

You did not mention Marbury, Rod Strickland or Mark Jax.

I still haven't gotten over the Rod Strickland for Maurice Cheeks trade..

SAME....Then the Knicks made matters worse by benching Mark, then trading him for Charles Smith....We haven't seen that level of pg play since...

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I dont understand the thread... what PGs have we brought in? Felton played better here than anywhere else. Linsanity happened here, we just didnt resign him. Langston is an undrafted FA we groomed nicely into a legit NBA player. Maybe your blaming the Knicks for the demise of Mike Bibby?

fish lets get real, feltons first yr 2 months was great, the 3rd month he took a major dip and by febuary he was in denver, his 2nd stint he did ok, but he started getting hurt, and by the playoffs he was trash.

You can't blame Felton on the Knicks somehow messing him up. If anything the Knicks helped him to improve. He's just not that good. His lack of commitment to conditioning is what really killed Felton. Can't blame the Knicks for him eating himself out of being the best he could be.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I dont understand the thread... what PGs have we brought in? Felton played better here than anywhere else. Linsanity happened here, we just didnt resign him. Langston is an undrafted FA we groomed nicely into a legit NBA player. Maybe your blaming the Knicks for the demise of Mike Bibby?

fish lets get real, feltons first yr 2 months was great, the 3rd month he took a major dip and by febuary he was in denver, his 2nd stint he did ok, but he started getting hurt, and by the playoffs he was trash.

You can't blame Felton on the Knicks somehow messing him up. If anything the Knicks helped him to improve. He's just not that good. His lack of commitment to conditioning is what really killed Felton. Can't blame the Knicks for him eating himself out of being the best he could be.

Either way MDA seemed to be running everyone into the ground that mattered.

Also You can't keep thinking about building this team in the shape of a triangle, cause when phil and fisher depart, will be stuck with a suspect pg and no longer running triangular plays

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I dont understand the thread... what PGs have we brought in? Felton played better here than anywhere else. Linsanity happened here, we just didnt resign him. Langston is an undrafted FA we groomed nicely into a legit NBA player. Maybe your blaming the Knicks for the demise of Mike Bibby?

fish lets get real, feltons first yr 2 months was great, the 3rd month he took a major dip and by febuary he was in denver, his 2nd stint he did ok, but he started getting hurt, and by the playoffs he was trash.

You can't blame Felton on the Knicks somehow messing him up. If anything the Knicks helped him to improve. He's just not that good. His lack of commitment to conditioning is what really killed Felton. Can't blame the Knicks for him eating himself out of being the best he could be.

Either way MDA seemed to be running everyone into the ground that mattered.

Also You can't keep thinking about building this team in the shape of a triangle, cause when phil and fisher depart, will be stuck with a suspect pg and no longer running triangular plays

please... just stop

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I dont understand the thread... what PGs have we brought in? Felton played better here than anywhere else. Linsanity happened here, we just didnt resign him. Langston is an undrafted FA we groomed nicely into a legit NBA player. Maybe your blaming the Knicks for the demise of Mike Bibby?

fish lets get real, feltons first yr 2 months was great, the 3rd month he took a major dip and by febuary he was in denver, his 2nd stint he did ok, but he started getting hurt, and by the playoffs he was trash.

You can't blame Felton on the Knicks somehow messing him up. If anything the Knicks helped him to improve. He's just not that good. His lack of commitment to conditioning is what really killed Felton. Can't blame the Knicks for him eating himself out of being the best he could be.

Either way MDA seemed to be running everyone into the ground that mattered.

Also You can't keep thinking about building this team in the shape of a triangle, cause when phil and fisher depart, will be stuck with a suspect pg and no longer running triangular plays

please... just stop

As i've said in other posts. It's utter NONSENSE to be worrying about years down the line when we have so much opportunity right in front of us over this summer and the following summer of 2016. There's no way in the world Phil and Fish will be gone with so much at stake over the next 2 years. We've got this draft and FA and another trade deadline, then another FA market and the cap going up too. There's just too much opportunity coming up to be taking such a pessimistic view.

We have no pick in 2016, and he's going to use majority of the cap space this off season to fill 10 roster spots. Unless he plans on filling the roster with 1 yr contracts, which would result in another pitiful season, what exactly do we have to look fwd to in 2016.

If phil has to endure another dismal season like the one we just experience, there's no way he sticks around. Why would he, at that age..

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I dont understand the thread... what PGs have we brought in? Felton played better here than anywhere else. Linsanity happened here, we just didnt resign him. Langston is an undrafted FA we groomed nicely into a legit NBA player. Maybe your blaming the Knicks for the demise of Mike Bibby?

fish lets get real, feltons first yr 2 months was great, the 3rd month he took a major dip and by febuary he was in denver, his 2nd stint he did ok, but he started getting hurt, and by the playoffs he was trash.

You can't blame Felton on the Knicks somehow messing him up. If anything the Knicks helped him to improve. He's just not that good. His lack of commitment to conditioning is what really killed Felton. Can't blame the Knicks for him eating himself out of being the best he could be.

Either way MDA seemed to be running everyone into the ground that mattered.

Also You can't keep thinking about building this team in the shape of a triangle, cause when phil and fisher depart, will be stuck with a suspect pg and no longer running triangular plays

please... just stop

As i've said in other posts. It's utter NONSENSE to be worrying about years down the line when we have so much opportunity right in front of us over this summer and the following summer of 2016. There's no way in the world Phil and Fish will be gone with so much at stake over the next 2 years. We've got this draft and FA and another trade deadline, then another FA market and the cap going up too. There's just too much opportunity coming up to be taking such a pessimistic view.

We have no pick in 2016, and he's going to use majority of the cap space this off season to fill 10 roster spots. Unless he plans on filling the roster with 1 yr contracts, which would result in another pitiful season, what exactly do we have to look fwd to in 2016.

If phil has to endure another dismal season like the one we just experience, there's no way he sticks around. Why would he, at that age..

because he's building. If you think he came here to win a title in the first couple years you have listened to nothing the man has said. NADA. He's said the exact opposite. He's point blank said its not only possible but likely a title happens after he's gone, but he's looking to lay a lasting foundation. Thats his goal, to change the culture long term. Maybe he fails, thats entirely possible but he's got the owner singing his tune also and thats a new development. In meantime maybe try googling some Phil Jackson/Knick articles and catch up

This is exactly the reason why I created the Clarity thread. It's an effort to refute the noise that gets put out there and misquoting or taking things out of context. Phil clearly has said he was brought in to establish a foundation and get this team on a winning progression. We all know how old Phil is. We can't predict how long he'll stay. Maybe things turn around quicker than he expects and he decides to stay longer. We simply can't know that at this point. That's why I think it's silly to be overly concerned with it. let's focus on the Draft and Free Agency 1st.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I dont understand the thread... what PGs have we brought in? Felton played better here than anywhere else. Linsanity happened here, we just didnt resign him. Langston is an undrafted FA we groomed nicely into a legit NBA player. Maybe your blaming the Knicks for the demise of Mike Bibby?

fish lets get real, feltons first yr 2 months was great, the 3rd month he took a major dip and by febuary he was in denver, his 2nd stint he did ok, but he started getting hurt, and by the playoffs he was trash.

You can't blame Felton on the Knicks somehow messing him up. If anything the Knicks helped him to improve. He's just not that good. His lack of commitment to conditioning is what really killed Felton. Can't blame the Knicks for him eating himself out of being the best he could be.

Either way MDA seemed to be running everyone into the ground that mattered.

Also You can't keep thinking about building this team in the shape of a triangle, cause when phil and fisher depart, will be stuck with a suspect pg and no longer running triangular plays

please... just stop

hold up, phil say he doubts he'll be around for the full turn around, every media outlet that attended the press conference walked away with the same conclusion, but now your making me seem like im talking crazy.

The dude is 69 years old, with all sorts of medical issues, and can barely travel.

Continuety. He said he'd be fine with not being here for the turn around so I took it as "im not starphuching to satisfy my agenda but will build this thing right and set the franchise up for the long run".

A philisophical approach that is not dependant on one person. For all the glory that is Popovitch/Buford the true architect of the Spurs was the owner who approaved Larry Brown! https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmh90R2cRDbICQ_g6byLFqYDGpFKEvECbw3-kGN0URTtqtLbt7VA

Those guys were Larrys underlings and the smart guy was the owner who built his management team. Get it, decisions are made along philsophical lines. Dolan built MSG being reactionary.

One more time: Dolan hired McKinsey like two years ago and once done it would appear that started the change. You might see Phil as a starphuch. Thats fine, but thats not what is happening. YOu might have expected greater change faster. Thats a starphuchers view. Maybe Phil thought he could turn it around faster if but he allowed an organic failure to happen which quickly exposed the team and he blew it the phuch up quickly. The old way would have us traded for Lowrey and we all would have him as the savior. Im sure George Karl would have made up nice with melo and we'd be riding high on maybe a playoff visit but what then what? Dolan was fearful a losing team would lose money and he ran the place based on Revenue parameters. If he really wants to win he had to make a change. I see evidence of this big time this year. We blew it up and had the worst season ever. This just two years after the renovation! Thank Donald sterling for the boast in valuation and maybe giving Dolan the financial room to see a team renovation exist. Rangers are thriving which also helps pay for knicks redo!!

Phil is here to build a foundation and a culture. Under Phil you won't see the mistakes of the past. The next guy to replace him, even if its mills will have been part of a longer term process and experience to build on. As long as Dolan is not making trades or dictating personel moves we should improve over a longer time. Phil might fail, but its not for reasons you throw out. It will be something else.

That my friend is what a foundation is. It should last beyond Phil. I could see him being an advisor after his time as president.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I dont understand the thread... what PGs have we brought in? Felton played better here than anywhere else. Linsanity happened here, we just didnt resign him. Langston is an undrafted FA we groomed nicely into a legit NBA player. Maybe your blaming the Knicks for the demise of Mike Bibby?

fish lets get real, feltons first yr 2 months was great, the 3rd month he took a major dip and by febuary he was in denver, his 2nd stint he did ok, but he started getting hurt, and by the playoffs he was trash.

You can't blame Felton on the Knicks somehow messing him up. If anything the Knicks helped him to improve. He's just not that good. His lack of commitment to conditioning is what really killed Felton. Can't blame the Knicks for him eating himself out of being the best he could be.

Either way MDA seemed to be running everyone into the ground that mattered.

Also You can't keep thinking about building this team in the shape of a triangle, cause when phil and fisher depart, will be stuck with a suspect pg and no longer running triangular plays

please... just stop

As i've said in other posts. It's utter NONSENSE to be worrying about years down the line when we have so much opportunity right in front of us over this summer and the following summer of 2016. There's no way in the world Phil and Fish will be gone with so much at stake over the next 2 years. We've got this draft and FA and another trade deadline, then another FA market and the cap going up too. There's just too much opportunity coming up to be taking such a pessimistic view.

We have no pick in 2016, and he's going to use majority of the cap space this off season to fill 10 roster spots. Unless he plans on filling the roster with 1 yr contracts, which would result in another pitiful season, what exactly do we have to look fwd to in 2016.

If phil has to endure another dismal season like the one we just experience, there's no way he sticks around. Why would he, at that age..

because he's building. If you think he came here to win a title in the first couple years you have listened to nothing the man has said. NADA. He's said the exact opposite. He's point blank said its not only possible but likely a title happens after he's gone, but he's looking to lay a lasting foundation. Thats his goal, to change the culture long term. Maybe he fails, thats entirely possible but he's got the owner singing his tune also and thats a new development. In meantime maybe try googling some Phil Jackson/Knick articles and catch up

Fish - we usually agree, but here I am in the camp that can see Phil leaving before his five years is up, and before he has built any kind of sustainable foundation.

knickscity wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

knickscity wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I dont understand the thread... what PGs have we brought in? Felton played better here than anywhere else. Linsanity happened here, we just didnt resign him. Langston is an undrafted FA we groomed nicely into a legit NBA player. Maybe your blaming the Knicks for the demise of Mike Bibby?

fish lets get real, feltons first yr 2 months was great, the 3rd month he took a major dip and by febuary he was in denver, his 2nd stint he did ok, but he started getting hurt, and by the playoffs he was trash.

You can't blame Felton on the Knicks somehow messing him up. If anything the Knicks helped him to improve. He's just not that good. His lack of commitment to conditioning is what really killed Felton. Can't blame the Knicks for him eating himself out of being the best he could be.

Either way MDA seemed to be running everyone into the ground that mattered.

Also You can't keep thinking about building this team in the shape of a triangle, cause when phil and fisher depart, will be stuck with a suspect pg and no longer running triangular plays

please... just stop

As i've said in other posts. It's utter NONSENSE to be worrying about years down the line when we have so much opportunity right in front of us over this summer and the following summer of 2016. There's no way in the world Phil and Fish will be gone with so much at stake over the next 2 years. We've got this draft and FA and another trade deadline, then another FA market and the cap going up too. There's just too much opportunity coming up to be taking such a pessimistic view.

We have no pick in 2016, and he's going to use majority of the cap space this off season to fill 10 roster spots. Unless he plans on filling the roster with 1 yr contracts, which would result in another pitiful season, what exactly do we have to look fwd to in 2016.

If phil has to endure another dismal season like the one we just experience, there's no way he sticks around. Why would he, at that age..

he definitely has to make the playoffs. This upcoming years goal is basically this past seasons goal. if he fails twice with the same goal...he really needs to go, and he likely will.

I would imagine his goal is to build a solid foundation and create a winning culture for years to come. it's not so important to make the playoffs in the first couple of years rather than building a roster that can compete for a championship over multiple years down the line. apparently you don't seem to have the stomach for that type of transformation and would rather have immediate mediocre results at the risk of long term success

You do realize your post makes no sense, right? How exactly do you build a winning culture if you arent actually winning? making the playoffs doesnt equal mediocrity, it indicates progress. It's not really that complex.

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

knickscity wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I dont understand the thread... what PGs have we brought in? Felton played better here than anywhere else. Linsanity happened here, we just didnt resign him. Langston is an undrafted FA we groomed nicely into a legit NBA player. Maybe your blaming the Knicks for the demise of Mike Bibby?

fish lets get real, feltons first yr 2 months was great, the 3rd month he took a major dip and by febuary he was in denver, his 2nd stint he did ok, but he started getting hurt, and by the playoffs he was trash.

You can't blame Felton on the Knicks somehow messing him up. If anything the Knicks helped him to improve. He's just not that good. His lack of commitment to conditioning is what really killed Felton. Can't blame the Knicks for him eating himself out of being the best he could be.

Either way MDA seemed to be running everyone into the ground that mattered.

Also You can't keep thinking about building this team in the shape of a triangle, cause when phil and fisher depart, will be stuck with a suspect pg and no longer running triangular plays

please... just stop

As i've said in other posts. It's utter NONSENSE to be worrying about years down the line when we have so much opportunity right in front of us over this summer and the following summer of 2016. There's no way in the world Phil and Fish will be gone with so much at stake over the next 2 years. We've got this draft and FA and another trade deadline, then another FA market and the cap going up too. There's just too much opportunity coming up to be taking such a pessimistic view.

We have no pick in 2016, and he's going to use majority of the cap space this off season to fill 10 roster spots. Unless he plans on filling the roster with 1 yr contracts, which would result in another pitiful season, what exactly do we have to look fwd to in 2016.

If phil has to endure another dismal season like the one we just experience, there's no way he sticks around. Why would he, at that age..

he definitely has to make the playoffs. This upcoming years goal is basically this past seasons goal. if he fails twice with the same goal...he really needs to go, and he likely will.

I would imagine his goal is to build a solid foundation and create a winning culture for years to come. it's not so important to make the playoffs in the first couple of years rather than building a roster that can compete for a championship over multiple years down the line. apparently you don't seem to have the stomach for that type of transformation and would rather have immediate mediocre results at the risk of long term success

You do realize your post makes no sense, right? How exactly do you build a winning culture if you arent actually winning? making the playoffs doesnt equal mediocrity, it indicates progress. It's not really that complex.

I think the post makes sense. No trades effecting the future were made to chase the 8th seed like in the past. The roster was torn down to almost nothing to move out guys like JR, Shump, Felton, Tyson etc. in hopes of a better future. JR, Felton, and to a lesser extent Tyson are all being talked about today for their performances or behavior and the talk isn't positive. Shump is ok in Cleveland but he wasn't making it in NY. What happened needed to happen in my opinion but no other gm was ever given the power to pull the plug on the season. The Knicks are reported to be looking for a franchise talent in the draft that will play for them in NY for the next 12-15 years instead of looking to move the pick for a former star player coming off of a career threatening injury. The cap money that they have is supposed to be used on 2-3 players so it isn't a get this guy or bust plan. Positive things are happening with bringing in young guys and role players and the Knicks are finally attempting to use the d league as a developmental program. However, the process to go from tearing down the roster to competing for the ecf may take more than one or two years.