mreinman wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Neither was Ewing. Different types of players, neither known as vocal leaders. Would be nice to draft a floor general to eventually fill that role.

he was not and it was a knock on him.

Oak, Doc, Harper ... Riley

there were leaders

Yep

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:I would think Phil would know this already. Melo has always been the same player leadership wise since he came in the league. Surround the leader to fill he weaknesses. ....
If so we Need:
Vocal floor leader
Locker room leader
Defender
Rim Protector
Someone who Doesnt need the ball to impact the game.

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

Do we know how other "max players" are in leadership? Locker room?

I dont know about max players....but you can see who the vocal leaders are that we should add...Green is one but I wouldnt give him the max. Aldridge seems like melo.....lets his game speak.

Agree 100%. I would hate to pair Aldridge with Melo. They are way too passive in my opinion. Green is intriguing in my opinion; he will cash in at the end of the year.

As for vocal leaders; you can easily see who they are as you watch the game. Duncan, for example appears to be a quiet dude, but he controls the locker room and the guys on the court. Lebron is a loud mouth; but, a hell of a leader. Kobe too is a loud mouth; but, his killer instinct and work ethic are so contagious, he incites others to follow his lead.

Beware of whom you give max money to and why. We have two young dudes currently on the roster that will for certain be strong leaders with proper coaching (Langston and THJ). Yes, I said it; THJ. He simply has to learn that the game of basketball entails other parts then just scoring the ball. I.E.: dominate on the defensive end; particularly, when he is having a terrible shooting night. Rebound the ball; make plays for others.

dude ... jump off the THJ train already :-)

Not yet my man. He is young and only been in the league for two full seasons. And, already played for two different coaches with two different visions and style since he was drafted. I want to see what he adds to his game next season before abandoning him as a player

I agree with THj. He will only get better and he's most likely a late bloomer. The problem is not him but it's the high expectations we put on him due to his rookie year. But if he was in the D league, we would be all over him as a solid reserve.

Solid reserve... thats a different tone from starter on a winning team. He can score in bunches, but his best trait (scoring) is wildly inconsistant at best. I see an Eddie House type. See if he gives you instant offense off the bench, if his shot isnt hitting get him out of there fast.

Weirdly, I thought Timmy would be a defense and glue guy based on what I saw from him at college. I don't like the way he plays in the NBA - trying to "get his" too much. Not a team player at all. I think his dad is in his ear too much. I don't have much hope for the kid, I hate to say. It's like his dream is to be a 20ppg scorer with low efficiency on a bad team, etc.

His dad is not in his ear at all which was an asterisk for me when he first got to the NBA... Tim Sr. and Jr was interviewed ..Senior said he doesn't listen to me nor seeks my advise...Jr. said he like to find his own way..I thought having a resource like his father would have been a good thing...The kid is head strong and thinks highly of himself..But I still want to keep him..He can play a roll on the team..

Apparently Sr. was pushing him too hard and they were close to a blow up when mom stepped in and they decided to drop it meaning Sr. doesnt talk to him about BB anymore and Jr. is free to "find his own way" exactly as you mentioned.

A lot of these guys dont get the work level it takes to get there and stay there. Its brutal and its not fun

Yea once Sr. Realized that Jr. Did not have the same fire he backed off. Sr said him being extremely hard on Jr. was "tearing the family apart" he had no choice but back off and let jr "find his way"

It's easy to see why Jr plays the way he plays. Didn't we draft him ahead of some really good players? And we already had Shump & JR. If anything they should've let JR walk not sign him and his brother.

What a joke of a franchise

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:I would think Phil would know this already. Melo has always been the same player leadership wise since he came in the league. Surround the leader to fill he weaknesses. ....
If so we Need:
Vocal floor leader
Locker room leader
Defender
Rim Protector
Someone who Doesnt need the ball to impact the game.

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

Do we know how other "max players" are in leadership? Locker room?

I dont know about max players....but you can see who the vocal leaders are that we should add...Green is one but I wouldnt give him the max. Aldridge seems like melo.....lets his game speak.

Agree 100%. I would hate to pair Aldridge with Melo. They are way too passive in my opinion. Green is intriguing in my opinion; he will cash in at the end of the year.

As for vocal leaders; you can easily see who they are as you watch the game. Duncan, for example appears to be a quiet dude, but he controls the locker room and the guys on the court. Lebron is a loud mouth; but, a hell of a leader. Kobe too is a loud mouth; but, his killer instinct and work ethic are so contagious, he incites others to follow his lead.

Beware of whom you give max money to and why. We have two young dudes currently on the roster that will for certain be strong leaders with proper coaching (Langston and THJ). Yes, I said it; THJ. He simply has to learn that the game of basketball entails other parts then just scoring the ball. I.E.: dominate on the defensive end; particularly, when he is having a terrible shooting night. Rebound the ball; make plays for others.

dude ... jump off the THJ train already :-)

Not yet my man. He is young and only been in the league for two full seasons. And, already played for two different coaches with two different visions and style since he was drafted. I want to see what he adds to his game next season before abandoning him as a player

I agree with THj. He will only get better and he's most likely a late bloomer. The problem is not him but it's the high expectations we put on him due to his rookie year. But if he was in the D league, we would be all over him as a solid reserve.

Solid reserve... thats a different tone from starter on a winning team. He can score in bunches, but his best trait (scoring) is wildly inconsistant at best. I see an Eddie House type. See if he gives you instant offense off the bench, if his shot isnt hitting get him out of there fast.

Weirdly, I thought Timmy would be a defense and glue guy based on what I saw from him at college. I don't like the way he plays in the NBA - trying to "get his" too much. Not a team player at all. I think his dad is in his ear too much. I don't have much hope for the kid, I hate to say. It's like his dream is to be a 20ppg scorer with low efficiency on a bad team, etc.

His dad is not in his ear at all which was an asterisk for me when he first got to the NBA... Tim Sr. and Jr was interviewed ..Senior said he doesn't listen to me nor seeks my advise...Jr. said he like to find his own way..I thought having a resource like his father would have been a good thing...The kid is head strong and thinks highly of himself..But I still want to keep him..He can play a roll on the team..

Apparently Sr. was pushing him too hard and they were close to a blow up when mom stepped in and they decided to drop it meaning Sr. doesnt talk to him about BB anymore and Jr. is free to "find his own way" exactly as you mentioned.

A lot of these guys dont get the work level it takes to get there and stay there. Its brutal and its not fun

Yea once Sr. Realized that Jr. Did not have the same fire he backed off. Sr said him being extremely hard on Jr. was "tearing the family apart" he had no choice but back off and let jr "find his way"

It's easy to see why Jr plays the way he plays. Didn't we draft him ahead of some really good players? And we already had Shump & JR. If anything they should've let JR walk not sign him and his brother.

What a joke of a franchise

Knicks1969 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:I would think Phil would know this already. Melo has always been the same player leadership wise since he came in the league. Surround the leader to fill he weaknesses. ....
If so we Need:
Vocal floor leader
Locker room leader
Defender
Rim Protector
Someone who Doesnt need the ball to impact the game.

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

Do we know how other "max players" are in leadership? Locker room?

I dont know about max players....but you can see who the vocal leaders are that we should add...Green is one but I wouldnt give him the max. Aldridge seems like melo.....lets his game speak.

Agree 100%. I would hate to pair Aldridge with Melo. They are way too passive in my opinion. Green is intriguing in my opinion; he will cash in at the end of the year.

As for vocal leaders; you can easily see who they are as you watch the game. Duncan, for example appears to be a quiet dude, but he controls the locker room and the guys on the court. Lebron is a loud mouth; but, a hell of a leader. Kobe too is a loud mouth; but, his killer instinct and work ethic are so contagious, he incites others to follow his lead.

Beware of whom you give max money to and why. We have two young dudes currently on the roster that will for certain be strong leaders with proper coaching (Langston and THJ). Yes, I said it; THJ. He simply has to learn that the game of basketball entails other parts then just scoring the ball. I.E.: dominate on the defensive end; particularly, when he is having a terrible shooting night. Rebound the ball; make plays for others.

dude ... jump off the THJ train already :-)

Not yet my man. He is young and only been in the league for two full seasons. And, already played for two different coaches with two different visions and style since he was drafted. I want to see what he adds to his game next season before abandoning him as a player

I agree with THj. He will only get better and he's most likely a late bloomer. The problem is not him but it's the high expectations we put on him due to his rookie year. But if he was in the D league, we would be all over him as a solid reserve.

Solid reserve... thats a different tone from starter on a winning team. He can score in bunches, but his best trait (scoring) is wildly inconsistant at best. I see an Eddie House type. See if he gives you instant offense off the bench, if his shot isnt hitting get him out of there fast.

Weirdly, I thought Timmy would be a defense and glue guy based on what I saw from him at college. I don't like the way he plays in the NBA - trying to "get his" too much. Not a team player at all. I think his dad is in his ear too much. I don't have much hope for the kid, I hate to say. It's like his dream is to be a 20ppg scorer with low efficiency on a bad team, etc.

His dad is not in his ear at all which was an asterisk for me when he first got to the NBA... Tim Sr. and Jr was interviewed ..Senior said he doesn't listen to me nor seeks my advise...Jr. said he like to find his own way..I thought having a resource like his father would have been a good thing...The kid is head strong and thinks highly of himself..But I still want to keep him..He can play a roll on the team..

Apparently Sr. was pushing him too hard and they were close to a blow up when mom stepped in and they decided to drop it meaning Sr. doesnt talk to him about BB anymore and Jr. is free to "find his own way" exactly as you mentioned.

A lot of these guys dont get the work level it takes to get there and stay there. Its brutal and its not fun

Yea once Sr. Realized that Jr. Did not have the same fire he backed off. Sr said him being extremely hard on Jr. was "tearing the family apart" he had no choice but back off and let jr "find his way"

It's easy to see why Jr plays the way he plays. Didn't we draft him ahead of some really good players? And we already had Shump & JR. If anything they should've let JR walk not sign him and his brother.

What a joke of a franchise

I believe he was the BPA with starter potential and a nba pedigree. But you never know what you get until 3 yrs in. The knicks screwed up his development, which is what i fear for all rookies we draft in the near future.

I agree. The Knicks have not been in the development business since after they drafted Ewing.

Knicks1969 wrote:So, you think Dolan will keep things in place when Phil leaves next season? I dont believe Phil will be around long enough to change the mindset around here. When you have an owner who cares more about the bottom line then basketball result, it is tough.