Vince Carter is turning into the Penny Hardaway we have-

Superstar of yesterday, role player of today.


I wouldn't mind having him on the team, but can't see what we could give up to get him unless there were other teams involved- where for instance, we get Vince Carter & Rasheed Wallace/Dampier/other big man and give up a host of stuff including KT, FW, Sweetney, Deke, OH et al, etc.



And, if we did get Vince Carter, it be a convenient excuse for Isiah to fire Lenny and go hire Phil Jackson.

Posted by Bonn1997:

KT for Ray Allen is the type of proposal Scott Layden would make

exactly why i said i dont believe the rumor, but if it is true, sonics would be essentially getting kurt for ray allen, and i think rays a better player than vince

Posted by Silverfuel:

I dont want Vince Carter on the Knicks either but dont try and convince yourself Houston is in anyway better than Carter. Carter can score more, defend better, rebound better, pass the ball better and obviously, dunk better.

Though I don't like him so much, I'd still take houston anyday over carter. I'v never been found of dunking machines. Carter is an improved version of harold miner. nothing else. no heart, no passion for the game. no use except for espn highlight which are, pardon me, one of the reason the nba basketball went to the sewers.

Posted by raven:

Posted by Silverfuel:

I dont want Vince Carter on the Knicks either but dont try and convince yourself Houston is in anyway better than Carter. Carter can score more, defend better, rebound better, pass the ball better and obviously, dunk better.

Though I don't like him so much, I'd still take houston anyday over carter. I'v never been found of dunking machines. Carter is an improved version of harold miner. nothing else. no heart, no passion for the game. no use except for espn highlight which are, pardon me, one of the reason the nba basketball went to the sewers.

no heart: Houston isn't much of a. play his guts out kinda guy either. He sat out with an injury this year when we were getting swept when: Baron Davis, Jermaine Oneal, Dwayne Wade, Malone and Rasheed played through their injuries.

no passion: This dude refuses, flat out say no I will not rebound. He is 6'6 and strong but will not play defense, pass the ball OR which is the most annoying part, crash the boards for rebounding. I dont want him to get 6 or 7 per night but 3 or 4 would be great.

Houston is one of THE WORST examples you can give for playing with heart or passion.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 07/02/2004 18:12:44]

Posted by Bobby:

vc can carry a team? since when?

I think you underestimate Vince; he's carried several Raptors' teams to the lottery

I wasn't comparing Vince to Houston; I'd HATE to have EITHER of them be my franchise player.

1- you are all morons

Hey smart ass, never ever open up a communication with that kind of statement. You are the moron…….no ever said h20 is better than vc, continue reading.

2-Vince Carter has carried the Raptors to the playoffs twice; he was a shot away from going all the way to the conference finals.

the first 6 years carter playing with the raptors has carried toronto to playoffs just twice ?….that equates to 33% or every 3 years your man vince plays his trick.
and that one shot away your man failed to make could be the beginning signs of webber-itis. comparatively, h20’s rim shot sank miami and wrote the history books for eighth seed comeback to ec final victory

h20’s efforts has contributed to ny reaching playoff status in his first 6 years as a knick: survey says, 100%. and we all know carter had better individual stats that didn’t amount to a hill of beans. h20 contributes in a team environment. i hope you can remember how detroit executed against fakers

3-He has had 2 injury plagued seasons lately. He is still young. He will rebound from that. He gets 20+, 5brds, 4ass, a BLOCK - WHICH IS MORE THEN OUR STARTING CENTER!!! and a steal game, and he penetrates, as he is no one dimensional shooter. Houston could not carry Vince's jock.

look here, when vc can contribute a final, let us know, and maybe your stats will have meaning.

4- I'm sorry but…..

………..but nothing, stupidity requires no apology

Posted by Bobby:

The Knicks never won a single playoff series with Houston as the best player!

c'mon now, h20's shot was the shot that won the series! delivering in crunch time is what its all about. and vc has not found a way to deliver yet

This is about who is better, H2O or Vince Carter. If you are saying Carter is better than H2O then there is no need to go any further. And one more thing, Houston is not clutch. He hit one clutch shot in a big game against Miami. get over it. It was almost 5 years ago.

Allan Houston is the most overated player I have seen in a long long time. Carter is injury prone and a whinner but Houston is definately no better. How can u excuse someone that is 6'6 and says he cannot get more than 2 rebounds a game because "the is not the way I play the game!"

He refuses to rebound he ball. He doesn't play defense and does not dribble to break down defenses. All he can do is jump shoot. And when someone like Doug Christie, Ron Artest, Kittles, Jalen Rose or even Ray Allen plays up on him he cannot even jump shoot that well! And he doesn't run well without the ball either. Does not get open for a jump shot at the end of games which is why KT has to put up those brick.

So basically what u are saying is Houston is better than VC because he is 10 times more clutch when, he is open, has the ball and all he has to do is jump shoot. Thats is when he is clutch. Is that why Houston is 10 X more clutch than VC?

As for Alice Houston's

LOL!


Allan has been a nice performer for us- but, as Silverfuel points out, when Allan's defender plays up on him, he's truly pathetic to watch-

-now, I will scream at the TV and say the refs aren't giving him respect- like a Kobe or Reggie Miller when they get touched they get the call.

But, if you play up on Vince, he will muscle by you and into the lane.

Is VC soft & oft injuried and a whiner? Yes.

Would a change of scenery help?

Undoubtedly.

Sprewell came here a criminal and left a champion.

Posted by Bobby:

The Knicks never won a single playoff series with Houston as the best player!

c'mon now, h20's shot was the shot that won the series! delivering in crunch time is what its all about. and vc has not found a way to deliver yet

Man how quickly we forget that Houston is notorious for passing up big shots. He'd rather drive and set up Spoon or KT than take over.

By the way....
Not many people have been able to take over games with a jumpshot.....we are talking about Reggie, Bird, Mullin, Rice. Houston is not on theit levels as far as being in their primes. Houston falls asleep too often to be thought as someone that can carry a team.

He can carry a team if his shot is falling....when he isn't hitting or "getting the proper lift" he is just a regular player.

If you wanna talk about carrying a team you wanna talk about guys that will not just isolate and chuck up a shot. Bird would take games over....everyone knew he was gonna take a shot and no one could stop him. Reggie was a demon....mister three pointer. No one ever makes your balls drop faster than Reggie behind the three point line. Rice and Mullin would come down the court and shoot 5 straight jumpshots from the same spot and you couldn't stop it.

When has Houston ever did any of that?

Man don't get me started with Houston....the guy is a good player nothing more....

Mitch Richman was known for a jumper but not too many people could stop that dude for about a decade not just outside. He was one of the best at scoring on the block because of his big body.

Man Sprewell....need I say more?

Ray Allen is a jumpshooter supposedly but he can drive and make his teamates better with his ball handling and passing ability.

Get off of Houston's jock. He has never taken over a game go ahead and use those two 50 pt games as evidence....you can use the Miami series as proof if you need to also. Houston has never taken over and is not capable of do it consistantly like good players do.

Man Vince is alone in Toronto....who the heck is carrying that team? They can't win without him. Houston is 33.....so he found out how to deliver during 2 losing season?

Vince is 27....he's more than a dunker. He is an elite player in this league. You don't build championship teams by just giving one guy the ball and say do everything or we lose.....

With our usual suspects if we can aquirre Vince or Shareef, Walker or someone of that caliber the Knicks would be right there with the best of them cuz the Knicks already have some good players......with Timmy, Marbs, Houston and one of those guys the Knicks would be a wicked team not a team relying on a franchise player.....

Salary cap has nothing to do with anything.....we are talking about game.

[Edited by - enyspree on 07/03/2004 14:15:49]

Didn't have enough patience to read all the posts...

#1 Vince Carter is better then Houston hands down...

but when Houston's shot is on he's unstoppable and he'll do it with just a few inches of space from his defender.