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OT: OKC Thunder Reportedly Fire Scott Brooks
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BigDaddyG
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4/22/2015  4:04 PM
VCoug wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:brooks is an awful coach, if not for durant/westbrook publicly backing this guy for so long i feel like he woulda been fired years ago. his coaching ingame was atrocious, especially in the playoffs. thunder should target fred hoiberg.

Yep. His coaching in the Finals that one year was especially atrocious. Everyone already knew Perkins wasn't good as it was and then Miami ate him alive.


Yeah, I think he's even worse than Kevin McHale. Brooks is so slow to make adjustments. The give the ball to Durant/Westbrook and pray offense doesn't cut it against elite teams.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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crzymdups
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4/22/2015  4:16 PM
Thunder were screwed by the bad decision to trade Harden at least a year early. Then by bad luck with injuries. In 2013 I thought they were going to win it all when Ibaka went down right before they played the Spurs in the WCF. Obviously Westbrook and Durant have gone down at big moments for them, too.

The Harden trade was epically bad and gave them very little margin for injury / bad luck and they got both in spades.

Brooks isn't the best coach in the world, but he's far from the worst. The Thunder feel they need to shake things up to try to keep Durant after next season when he's a UFA and the salary cap will be $84M or something.

¿ △ ?
dk7th
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4/22/2015  4:39 PM
holfresh wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:brooks is an awful coach, if not for durant/westbrook publicly backing this guy for so long i feel like he woulda been fired years ago. his coaching ingame was atrocious, especially in the playoffs. thunder should target fred hoiberg.


IMHO, I see it as a pretty good coach in a good/bad situation

The good was that he got to coach some elite talent. All while they were young.

The bad is that many of the parts were ill fitting together and his front office didn't at times help him ( the Perkins trade was bad, the Harden deal backfired, the Huestis draft and stash was actually insulting to the fanbase)

The argument can be made that he should have, before injuries got him to that point, did a better job of developing guys like Lamb and O'Neal.

Poorly timed injuries weren't his fault. Also I'm not sure anyone can reign in the hidden cost of how Westbrook actually plays. He'll stuff the stat sheet, but I still question if how Westbrook excels is a good fit for trying to actually contend.

I think the blame should spin in all directions, the ownership ( for penny pinching), the coaching ( poor in game adjustments), the front office ( some decisions in retrospect really hurt this team) and the players themselves ( too many guys wanting to get "theirs" over the team concept)

But since it's the NBA, the head coach takes the round in the back of the head.

I completely disagree with your assessment...He was a horrible coach...In the playoffs, OKC at full strength seemed lost offensively running one on one and iso plays time and time again...They have no set offense other than to give KD or Westbrook the ball...There are no plays to get easy baskets..Every shot in that offense is a tough shot..Over the years, Durant has never developed a post game that might have help him in the playoffs..They have been badly in need of an inside presence for years and you think he would have Ibaka journey to Houston to learn from the great teacher Hakeem, the Dream..No, Ibaka is now a jump shooter, a three point shooter, if you will, like so many other guys on the roster...He is a awful coach that has had the best talent in the West for about 4/5 years running...I have been saying Phil Jackson would have been the perfect coach for that situation for years now...KD and Westbrook would have been perfect in the triangle..

what is your assessment of russell westbrook?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
holfresh
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4/22/2015  4:50 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
holfresh wrote:I completely disagree with your assessment...He was a horrible coach...


I'm a big believer that the modern NBA coach is mostly powerless.

During the last Finals, Zack Lowe said he finally asked some people working with the Heat why

1) Wade didn't lose 15 pounds to help his durability
2) Wade didn't just exert more effort on defense
3) Wade didn't work on a long range shot sooner in his career

The base answer is you can't make NBA players at a certain level do anything they don't want to do.

Even the great Phil Jackson wrote in his first book that he was concerned about how to cajol Kobe Bryant to play defense. This despite all the rings Jackson had then and that Bryant embroiled in his rape case.

It's no secret that even the great Pat Riley was beyond frustrated with Shaq and his conditioning, but you can't make Diesel stop eating all those Chalupas ( nor hanging out with gangbangers apparently)

I don't think Scott Brooks is a "great coach" I do think he's a good coach who had a plus/minus type of situation.

Charles Barkley said it best. You can keep firing the coach, but at some point, on some teams, you have accept it's the players who are the worthless *******s.

Great point...That's why I'm in favor of a certain type of coach for the Knicks..You need a leader of men type of coach with the talent of an OKC...I want a coach who players respect and has been there..You can't always reach a player but there are those players who will listen...Melo lost 15 pounds last season to handle the ball more in the triangle because Phil asked him to do it...Coaching is not all X's and O's..It's also knowing which buttons to push and not to push..OKC and Durant could have benefited more from working on his post game and having some one who would tell him that..Ibaka the same thing...Things the coach can control like having offensive sets in the playoffs wasn't evident over the years in OKC..Some one has to bear the responsibility for this...Thibs seem to have control of his crew..Doc has control..Pop has control...It can be done...
holfresh
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4/22/2015  4:52 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:brooks is an awful coach, if not for durant/westbrook publicly backing this guy for so long i feel like he woulda been fired years ago. his coaching ingame was atrocious, especially in the playoffs. thunder should target fred hoiberg.


IMHO, I see it as a pretty good coach in a good/bad situation

The good was that he got to coach some elite talent. All while they were young.

The bad is that many of the parts were ill fitting together and his front office didn't at times help him ( the Perkins trade was bad, the Harden deal backfired, the Huestis draft and stash was actually insulting to the fanbase)

The argument can be made that he should have, before injuries got him to that point, did a better job of developing guys like Lamb and O'Neal.

Poorly timed injuries weren't his fault. Also I'm not sure anyone can reign in the hidden cost of how Westbrook actually plays. He'll stuff the stat sheet, but I still question if how Westbrook excels is a good fit for trying to actually contend.

I think the blame should spin in all directions, the ownership ( for penny pinching), the coaching ( poor in game adjustments), the front office ( some decisions in retrospect really hurt this team) and the players themselves ( too many guys wanting to get "theirs" over the team concept)

But since it's the NBA, the head coach takes the round in the back of the head.

I completely disagree with your assessment...He was a horrible coach...In the playoffs, OKC at full strength seemed lost offensively running one on one and iso plays time and time again...They have no set offense other than to give KD or Westbrook the ball...There are no plays to get easy baskets..Every shot in that offense is a tough shot..Over the years, Durant has never developed a post game that might have help him in the playoffs..They have been badly in need of an inside presence for years and you think he would have Ibaka journey to Houston to learn from the great teacher Hakeem, the Dream..No, Ibaka is now a jump shooter, a three point shooter, if you will, like so many other guys on the roster...He is a awful coach that has had the best talent in the West for about 4/5 years running...I have been saying Phil Jackson would have been the perfect coach for that situation for years now...KD and Westbrook would have been perfect in the triangle..

what is your assessment of russell westbrook?

He is a great basketball player who needs a coach to guide him...He is like a Tasmanian devil out there...He can be coached, but is it too late??..I would love him here but not under Fisher...
JrZyHuStLa
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4/22/2015  5:27 PM
fishmike wrote:Scott Brooks... He was a great Knick. Anyone remember when he lost his roster spot on the Knicks because Clyde was making a comeback?

Yes, the April fool's joke.
LivingLegend
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4/22/2015  6:04 PM
Still waiting for Scott to install an offense --- still thinking back to that (was it 3-1) finals lead to Miami?
WaltLongmire
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4/22/2015  6:09 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
fishmike wrote:Scott Brooks... He was a great Knick. Anyone remember when he lost his roster spot on the Knicks because Clyde was making a comeback?

Yes, the April fool's joke.


EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
NumberTwoPencil
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4/22/2015  7:23 PM
Walt Clyde returning to the Knicks and taking the "bitter" Scott Brooks place was new to me. I can't believe I missed that. I have trouble imagining MSG/Knicks doing anything like that now. The whole place is a joke, now. A story about Patrick resigning with the Knicks would be left to The Onion.
NumberTwoPencil
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4/22/2015  7:29 PM
I kinda understand the decision, esp. if Durant and Westbrook are iffy about Brooks. However, I think Brooks deserves a lot of respect for building a strong program in OKC. There are some similarities to Mark Jackson--Brooks wasn't always the best with Xs and Os, though perhaps now than a few years ago--but Brooks seemed solid managing the long term future of OKC in ways that Jackson was not, he juggled quite a few hot personalities fairly well, focused on player development, had solid assistant coaches, etc.
gunsnewing
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4/22/2015  7:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/22/2015  7:33 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
fishmike wrote:Scott Brooks... He was a great Knick. Anyone remember when he lost his roster spot on the Knicks because Clyde was making a comeback?

Yes, the April fool's joke.


My all-time favorite MSG network moment.

Had me fooled and ecstatic as a 14yr old lol
mreinman
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4/22/2015  7:38 PM
Fred Hoiberg ... no brainer

or Judd Bucheler if you want to run the triangle

so here is what phil is thinking ....
holfresh
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4/22/2015  8:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/22/2015  8:04 PM
Hoiberg just had hear surgery again..But how do u not bring in a vet coach with guys who have been to the Finals already??..Also Durant is in his final year, can u risk losing him by not bringing in the right coach..
callmened
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4/22/2015  8:45 PM
nice guy
good motivator
horrible on X&Os
likes to play 4 vs 5 just to have a defenisve guy (perkins, sefalosha, roberson)

this tells me that KD wants someone else. at this point okc is doing whatever they can to keep KD

that means i think they pick coach ollie

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
mreinman
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4/22/2015  9:12 PM
holfresh wrote:Hoiberg just had hear surgery again..But how do u not bring in a vet coach with guys who have been to the Finals already??..Also Durant is in his final year, can u risk losing him by not bringing in the right coach..

hear surgery?

billy donovan does not have nba exp and neither does coach K. College success counts and I would hire a guy like brad stevens in a heart beat because he is a damn good coach.

I would not hire a guy like fisher who has zero experience and seems like a bit of a dud.

Kevin Ollie would be an interesting choice too though he is a bit old school from what I read.

Hoiberg is cutting edge.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
holfresh
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4/22/2015  9:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/22/2015  9:36 PM
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:Hoiberg just had hear surgery again..But how do u not bring in a vet coach with guys who have been to the Finals already??..Also Durant is in his final year, can u risk losing him by not bringing in the right coach..

hear surgery?

billy donovan does not have nba exp and neither does coach K. College success counts and I would hire a guy like brad stevens in a heart beat because he is a damn good coach.

I would not hire a guy like fisher who has zero experience and seems like a bit of a dud.

Kevin Ollie would be an interesting choice too though he is a bit old school from what I read.

Hoiberg is cutting edge.

Doesn't always translate to the Pros...Patino, Hamilton and Calipari didn't make it..This is a player's league..
mreinman
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4/22/2015  9:23 PM
holfresh wrote:
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:Hoiberg just had hear surgery again..But how do u not bring in a vet coach with guys who have been to the Finals already??..Also Durant is in his final year, can u risk losing him by not bringing in the right coach..

hear surgery?

billy donovan does not have nba exp and neither does coach K. College success counts and I would hire a guy like brad stevens in a heart beat because he is a damn good coach.

I would not hire a guy like fisher who has zero experience and seems like a bit of a dud.

Kevin Ollie would be an interesting choice too though he is a bit old school from what I read.

Hoiberg is cutting edge.

Doesn't always translate to the Pros...Patino, Hamilton and Calapari didn't make it..This is a player's league..

of course it doesn't, and pro's don't necessarily make it here either.

Pitino had his moments but as you know, it all depends on who you are coaching.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
VCoug
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4/22/2015  9:37 PM
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:Hoiberg just had hear surgery again..But how do u not bring in a vet coach with guys who have been to the Finals already??..Also Durant is in his final year, can u risk losing him by not bringing in the right coach..

hear surgery?

billy donovan does not have nba exp and neither does coach K. College success counts and I would hire a guy like brad stevens in a heart beat because he is a damn good coach.

I would not hire a guy like fisher who has zero experience and seems like a bit of a dud.

Kevin Ollie would be an interesting choice too though he is a bit old school from what I read.

Hoiberg is cutting edge.

Hoiberg would have been a good move. My personal favorite is Shaka Smart.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
mreinman
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4/22/2015  9:41 PM
VCoug wrote:
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:Hoiberg just had hear surgery again..But how do u not bring in a vet coach with guys who have been to the Finals already??..Also Durant is in his final year, can u risk losing him by not bringing in the right coach..

hear surgery?

billy donovan does not have nba exp and neither does coach K. College success counts and I would hire a guy like brad stevens in a heart beat because he is a damn good coach.

I would not hire a guy like fisher who has zero experience and seems like a bit of a dud.

Kevin Ollie would be an interesting choice too though he is a bit old school from what I read.

Hoiberg is cutting edge.

Hoiberg would have been a good move. My personal favorite is Shaka Smart.

good coach too.

I like Hoiberg because besides being an excellent coach, he is not old school not will to use a computer.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
VCoug
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4/22/2015  9:44 PM
mreinman wrote:
VCoug wrote:
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:Hoiberg just had hear surgery again..But how do u not bring in a vet coach with guys who have been to the Finals already??..Also Durant is in his final year, can u risk losing him by not bringing in the right coach..

hear surgery?

billy donovan does not have nba exp and neither does coach K. College success counts and I would hire a guy like brad stevens in a heart beat because he is a damn good coach.

I would not hire a guy like fisher who has zero experience and seems like a bit of a dud.

Kevin Ollie would be an interesting choice too though he is a bit old school from what I read.

Hoiberg is cutting edge.

Hoiberg would have been a good move. My personal favorite is Shaka Smart.

good coach too.

I like Hoiberg because besides being an excellent coach, he is not old school not will to use a computer.

Yeah. And I don't know that either would have agreed to come here but it would have at least been nice if we had reached out to them.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
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OT: OKC Thunder Reportedly Fire Scott Brooks
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