knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Its fluid. Things change very quickly. We have seen worst to first. I dont worry about the results so much as are we doing this right?

If the results don't add up to success, then your doing something wrong. I just don't understand your statement.

I always judge success by results.

Really??..Weren't you leading the charge to have Woodson fired after losing to the Pacers?

Where's woodson now, right where he belongs, as an assistant, and thats exactly where fisher belongs.

You talk about success ..He went 18-6, 54 wins, and undermined in December but won 37 games anyway..That's success..Do u believe we can win 37 games next year???..That's success..

foosballnick wrote:h

knicks1248 wrote:
The only positives about this season is learning from your failing mistakes, and going about it entirely different. you have to do everything the opposite of what you did to lose 67 games.

You seem to think of building a roster and results on the floor as a year to year thing in a vaccuum.

The Knicks team this year was a result of previous years trying to stay afloat with older players and highly paid veterans......plus.......a failed attempt to revamp that previous roster by trading Chandler and signing a guy like Jason Smith. The issue with the previous roster is that it did not offer any flexibility based on no cap space and the Knicks being over the apron. The previous roster also had players on the last year of contracts or otherwise who were not going to be resigned and not part of the Knicks future due to age, injuries or ineffectiveness (Amare, Chandler, Shumpert, Prigs (buyout option), Felton, Kenyon Martin, Udrih, MWP, Jeremy Tyler, Toure Murry).

By eventually deciding to strip the roster down, the Knicks are essentially doing the opposite of what they had been doing for many years....not just what they did this year. In your recent posting history, you seem to place all the blame on Phil for this season, I place all the blame on the motus operandi of the team over the past 15 years.

Some of you guys defends phils moves as if he did everything the right away and ONLY way, and phil himself has admitted to failing. he went from Plan A to plan D real quick.

But thats in the past, i'm done with that, I'm focus on the future. Phil is not going to be around long, and at the very least he should have a very solid core in place.

Fishmike - no "dark turn" as you describe. The Answer Man has simply taken an unflinching look at NBA history, with the 1973 Philadelphia 76ers as the model... And listened to our President of basketball operations with care. Not my opinion. The words of Phil Jackson. nixluva feels a worst to first scenario is possible. Uncle Phil said... (Please pay attention nixluva),

“That would be like talking crazy,”

“But we really do think, progressively, we’re going to get better. I think teams have to take substantial steps, and that’s what we want to do.”

“I want to see us having a winning record, and that’s a big jump to make.”

Phil Jackson, in the press conference, in his own words described the free agent market being skewed by the higher cap which will inflate the cost of signing average players. He also stated clearly that having a winning record as a "big jump to make." That is winning 44 games. Based on the won total of 2014, That would be a miracle.

Just keeping it real.

gunsnewing wrote:Some people felt this was a 5@win team after we added Calderon. I think Earl is right. We probably should temper expectations

did you just write 50 win team?

My expectation is that we do things the right way, which is what Phil keeps sayin over and over. Players that fit. A style of play. Use the draft. Develop players.

Isola raked Phil over the coals for saying he was happy many of these guys he traded are contributing for playoff teams, but Phil is right. He said early on that players werent lining up to help the Knicks. He needed to create an environemnt where players of all skill levels in the league could come and improve. Perception is part of a culture change.

Ultimately the real view into what is going to happen (or not happen) starts with this offseason, and it starts with the draft. Everything follows that. Sure its just one player and one piece, but it always starts with that doesnt it?

Phil tried, or he tried to rebuild on the fly. Maybe he promised Dolan he'd try.
The record speaks for itself. The rebuild speaks for itself.

Thing is, its easy to say "This didn't work in the first 6 months, so we should fire them all and bring in someone else"!

To do what? Bring them back? Its done. Looking for blame? Then what? Jeeze, since JR is doing so good we should bring him back?
Ok, Bring Lebron, Uncle Drew and Wes along also!!!

Phil is about Zen, Zen is not about the past, or the future, but whats right in front of you. The decisions you make NOW. If you carry the baggage of failure you weight yourself down. If you carry the knowledge of experience you carry a tool that is useful. If you worry about the future you bring anxiety that causes one to panic.

Phil's job is to set the franchise on the right path and he is saying in 4 years, if we are not hoisting a championsip he is ok with that. A man at peace with himself.

knicks1248 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:h

knicks1248 wrote:
The only positives about this season is learning from your failing mistakes, and going about it entirely different. you have to do everything the opposite of what you did to lose 67 games.

You seem to think of building a roster and results on the floor as a year to year thing in a vaccuum.

The Knicks team this year was a result of previous years trying to stay afloat with older players and highly paid veterans......plus.......a failed attempt to revamp that previous roster by trading Chandler and signing a guy like Jason Smith. The issue with the previous roster is that it did not offer any flexibility based on no cap space and the Knicks being over the apron. The previous roster also had players on the last year of contracts or otherwise who were not going to be resigned and not part of the Knicks future due to age, injuries or ineffectiveness (Amare, Chandler, Shumpert, Prigs (buyout option), Felton, Kenyon Martin, Udrih, MWP, Jeremy Tyler, Toure Murry).

By eventually deciding to strip the roster down, the Knicks are essentially doing the opposite of what they had been doing for many years....not just what they did this year. In your recent posting history, you seem to place all the blame on Phil for this season, I place all the blame on the motus operandi of the team over the past 15 years.

Some of you guys defends phils moves as if he did everything the right away and ONLY way, and phil himself has admitted to failing. he went from Plan A to plan D real quick.

But thats in the past, i'm done with that, I'm focus on the future. Phil is not going to be around long, and at the very least he should have a very solid core in place.

Which was the right thing to do, to admit you were wrong and hit the reset button. When did Isiah, Walsh, Layden, ever admit to a mistake? They simply exacerbated the issues by trading away picks and players for more ill-fitting parts.

Moonangie wrote:

misterearl wrote:“Yes, I’m fine with that.”

- Phil Jackson, asked if he would be OK with laying the foundation for the Knicks’ turnaround – but not necessarily being around beyond his existing contract down the road to see it through.

With the changes in the salary cap, the competitive balance having shifted West, and the unpredictability of the available college sophomores, Phil Jackson knows his options are limited. He is already tamping down expectations and could recognize that his five years contract will last three years, at best.

Of course, debating the various permutations of roster combinations and te menu of available talent is an entertaining way to pass the time, but we must be clear... we are coming off the worst season in franchise history and are among the least productive teams in the league. Let that sink in a moment. Whether you an optimist or see the glass half empty, this is the business we have chosen.

The task of returning to simply being competitive will require patience and additional trial and error. Uncle Phil knows that there will be mistakes made along the way and his 2016 roster is still a work in progress. This is not a one year process. It is a three to five year deal, minimally.

Minimally.

So, boys and girls, we need to get real, look at the competition and take a deep breath. We have a long journey ahead.

You're right: even glass-half-full folks like me recognize this will be a process. But instead of a futile process of starphucking our way to mediocrity, it's a process we can enjoy and place a stake in. That's more than I can say for the last 15+ years.

I am excited for a "full" rebuild, with or without Melo. I'm excited to watch what we can construct when a basketball guy steers the ship and holds Dolan the Fool at arms length. Three to five years sounds about right.

I grew up a Yankee fan. They had some good players in the 80s and good teams but their habit of trading their picks and farm system players for overpriced overrated players ensured they would never be great. Then they let Stick build up the farm system and developed a core of players that delivered a dynasty. I had the pleasure of owning season tickets from 96-09 and saw it all. Now I dont even watch baseball because that team is unwatchable.

Im pining for the same. Dolan (like George) learns to sit back and let his people work. We build from the ground up. We develop players. We do it the right way. Whatever time it takes it takes. Im here. If it wasnt for Phil I would probably be done with the Knicks also. Im too busy to waste time, but this is a process I can enjoy. I remember when Bernie Williams came up in the early 90s how bad those teams were, but we kept him and stuck with it. Then other guys popped and when we started to spend it was around a real home grown core. That makes it sweeter. Fingers crossed.

Uptown wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:h

knicks1248 wrote:
The only positives about this season is learning from your failing mistakes, and going about it entirely different. you have to do everything the opposite of what you did to lose 67 games.

You seem to think of building a roster and results on the floor as a year to year thing in a vaccuum.

The Knicks team this year was a result of previous years trying to stay afloat with older players and highly paid veterans......plus.......a failed attempt to revamp that previous roster by trading Chandler and signing a guy like Jason Smith. The issue with the previous roster is that it did not offer any flexibility based on no cap space and the Knicks being over the apron. The previous roster also had players on the last year of contracts or otherwise who were not going to be resigned and not part of the Knicks future due to age, injuries or ineffectiveness (Amare, Chandler, Shumpert, Prigs (buyout option), Felton, Kenyon Martin, Udrih, MWP, Jeremy Tyler, Toure Murry).

By eventually deciding to strip the roster down, the Knicks are essentially doing the opposite of what they had been doing for many years....not just what they did this year. In your recent posting history, you seem to place all the blame on Phil for this season, I place all the blame on the motus operandi of the team over the past 15 years.

Some of you guys defends phils moves as if he did everything the right away and ONLY way, and phil himself has admitted to failing. he went from Plan A to plan D real quick.

But thats in the past, i'm done with that, I'm focus on the future. Phil is not going to be around long, and at the very least he should have a very solid core in place.

Which was the right thing to do, to admit you were wrong and hit the reset button. When did Isiah, Walsh, Layden, ever admit to a mistake? They simply exacerbated the issues by trading away picks and players for more ill-fitting parts.

walsh did admit to making a few bad moves like bank on FA wanting to play in ny (king james) and he wasn't the one that agreed to the melo deal, which tarnish is rep here.