Finestrg wrote:I like Melo, I just wish he had a better personality. He does and says things where you can clearly see he's not a leader. Funny how I feel more tolerant toward A-Rod than I do Carmelo Anthony. That shouldn't be--A-Rod's clearly done many more questionable things in his career to embarrass himself and the teams he's played for but I dunno man -- why do I feel more tolerant and forgiving toward A-Rod?

because you can hide a positional player on a baseball team which has no salary cap. the only time a-rod gets exposed is in the post-season where he has been among the most easily distracted, underachieving players.

dk7th wrote:milwaukee has a deep team. depth has become much more important in the modern nba. melo would be a great sixth man on this bucks team. he would make this year's bucks team a conference finalist in the sixth man role. opponents would have to compromise their rotations to deal with melo while he abuses their bench. he could also reduce his minutes to 32 a game, fending off wear and tear on his body.

this is what i hope for with the knicks over the next two seasons. create youth, depth, and high motor/bbiq rotation. preserve latter-career melo by having him come off the bench and abusing opposing benches. let him disrupt opposing benches instead of his own starting lineup. it's a win-win for both melo and the knicks.

I have no words....you never stop amazing me.

dk7th wrote:kaminsky/smith/melo
cleanthony early/atetoukumpo/melo

these are some possibilities. this is how jackson should approach the summer agenda.

dk7th wrote:i wasn't ranking by position i was showing variables at each position from which a gm in the offseason will create a truth tree "on the move," or as events dictate. he doesn't have the kind of game that syncs with others so it makes more sense to create a cohesive unit as a starting five and then bring melo off the bench to abuse benches in the middle of quarters and then perhaps at the end of close games. the iso game is better suited to the bench in the modern game, especially when a system is being instituted. and with the salary cap being raised it could be a true blessing.

At the 4: a late first round draft pick/a journeyman, garbagetime 3-4/your franchise player
At the 3: second round draft pick who's injury prone/NBDL player/your franchise player

Yes, these are the truth trees. Melo, your $124 million dollar third string 3 or 4.

So the rest of the team is instituting the Triangle and we save Melo for the JR role. Brilliant. Maybe you could start your next thread about Phil teaching Melo to untie shoes and spend the offseason dating porn stars.

This is truly revolutionary thinking. You can't get rid of your personal cancerous tumor/demon, so you will put the only proven quality starter on the team on the bench in the prime of his career.
MeloHate goes passive agressive. I actually like this. It's a new twist on Somberism.

I salute you dk7th, and your snooty wine.

I just KNEW when I opened this thread it would be the most entertaining thing I read all morning. No dissapointment! Thanks DK

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:
dk might be on to something. If we are paying max money and a no trade clause....we should have the option to bring melo off the bench.

we also have the option to put the bottle down before we push send.

i did have the good fortune of having some high end bourgogne this afternoon. what'd you have? let me guess... hennessey, ciroc coconut, moet nectar imperial?

You sound like you have some experience with drinking and back door racist comments.

i have become familiar with both alcohol and racism, either through choice or necessity. how about you?

Only with internet thugs who use the internet to say what they would never say in person. Also with Internet thugs that use my UK name to place me in an ethnic group, without meeting me in person.

who came into the thread with an insult and an attempt to derail the thread? the answer is an internet thug, someone who would never accuse another man of being an alcoholic to his face.

see what i did there, champ?

Oh...i would tell you in your face to put the bottle down or leave the drugs alone because of this thread topic.....my comment had nothing to do with race. But if my statements affended you please forgive me. I would never say something in here i cant say face to face, including my drinking comment. But your comment on the other hand was racially offensive. And its something you would never say to a stranger you just met or dont know.

TripleThreat wrote:

dk7th wrote:so are the knicks going to have appreciably more success with melo in the starting lineup then? seems like all the scenarios you laid out still apply?

To push Melo out of the starting lineup, you'd need 5 starters with the quality and production to actually push him out of said starting lineup.

The Knicks are going to start off this offseason with the least talented 15 man roster in the entire NBA ( is anyone really going to argue this point? Really? ) while trying to run one of the most complicated offenses known in NBA history, while not having a first round pick in 2014, again, not having one in 2016, and having the last series of picks ( Shumpert, Hardaway Jr and Early) be disappointments or off to a slow rough development. They also have Melo chewing up 40 percent of their cap. This doesn't include Calderon's ugly contract.

Someone will argue the cap will rise, yes it will. FOR EVERYONE. Many of the free agent scenarios people throw around almost operate as if the Knicks will get a cap infusion but the rest of the league will not. Teams will have more money to retain their own depth, thus further choking out that Tier 3 to Tier 5 of free agency that will be so critical for the Knicks. As for trades, what can you trade? Melo has a NTC and with the least talented roster in the league, their reserves would be instant starters on the Knicks, why would they want anything on the Knicks current roster?

Maybe the scenario presents itself as Melo taking a team friendly cut rate contract after this one ends to be a sixth man. Which he might do, ON ANOTHER TEAM THAT HAS A REAL CHANCE TO CONTEND FOUR YEARS FROM NOW. This helps the Knicks none.

Nixluva will argue and argue and yell at the wind and throw rocks in the abyss and tell me that I am wrong. That the current Knicks can rebuild to contend in this four year timeline. Well Nixluva is an idiot. He's an idiot about the salary cap, how teams practically rebuild, the actual importance of team rapport and chemistry and generally about NBA Draft History as a tool for precedent.

In "fairy land" where there are rivers of butterscotch and there are trees that sprout donuts and lollipops and the pathways are paved with gingerbread, in that world, sure the Knicks can rebuild and contend under the Briggs and RonRon "Inception Level Trade Rape Within A Trade Rape" scenarios. These functionally operate as a players agent working against his own client and his own sense of self preservation, then the original franchise working against their own self interest and front offices sense of self preservation, then a team owner , not the Knicks, working against his own self interest, to defy the general sports media and open themselves up to cancelled season tickets and the open revolt of their fanbases for the Knicks can literally firebomb that team with some gutting nonsensical trade that would literally cause the entire NBA and Adam Silver to investigate because it would be so lopsided that it would appear collusive.

If the Knicks started right now, truly started right now, in terms of hiring a young GM for the future and trading Melo off the roster, they could attempt to contend in 5-7 years. It's not the sexy "movie like" script to play out. But it's the realistic slow grind team building that is needed, that all the contenders now had to go through at some point, to get better and to get to the cusp of being an elite team. The problem with the Briggs and RonRon type fairy land scenarios, the 18 month turnaround trade rapings, is they don't just require a first time geriatric GM to be smarter and never miss on a level never seen before in NBA draft history or front office history, but it would require the rest of the league to be inept on a level unseen in any kind of sports environment. You can't just bank on your team hitting lady luck over and over, you are demanding that 31 other teams be actively trying to sabotage themselves and just simply not care if they keep their jobs or feed their kids or not.

The Knicks don't have

1) Asset base in draft picks or trade worthy assets outside of Melo
2) The practical capspace
3) The timeline, in a practical sense
4) The margin for error inherent in the team building process
5) The existing roster, including critical development of recent draftees in a five year span before now

to contend in Melo's contract timeline. I don't see how it's possible.

This isn't Melo Hate. Take any one dimensional aging player coming off injury and put him on any roster in the league as barren and savaged as the Knicks with the same cap issues and lack of asset issues and I'd say the same thing.

TripleThreat wrote:

dk7th wrote:so are the knicks going to have appreciably more success with melo in the starting lineup then? seems like all the scenarios you laid out still apply?

To push Melo out of the starting lineup, you'd need 5 starters with the quality and production to actually push him out of said starting lineup.

The Knicks are going to start off this offseason with the least talented 15 man roster in the entire NBA ( is anyone really going to argue this point? Really? ) while trying to run one of the most complicated offenses known in NBA history, while not having a first round pick in 2014, again, not having one in 2016, and having the last series of picks ( Shumpert, Hardaway Jr and Early) be disappointments or off to a slow rough development. They also have Melo chewing up 40 percent of their cap. This doesn't include Calderon's ugly contract.

Someone will argue the cap will rise, yes it will. FOR EVERYONE. Many of the free agent scenarios people throw around almost operate as if the Knicks will get a cap infusion but the rest of the league will not. Teams will have more money to retain their own depth, thus further choking out that Tier 3 to Tier 5 of free agency that will be so critical for the Knicks. As for trades, what can you trade? Melo has a NTC and with the least talented roster in the league, their reserves would be instant starters on the Knicks, why would they want anything on the Knicks current roster?

Maybe the scenario presents itself as Melo taking a team friendly cut rate contract after this one ends to be a sixth man. Which he might do, ON ANOTHER TEAM THAT HAS A REAL CHANCE TO CONTEND FOUR YEARS FROM NOW. This helps the Knicks none.

Nixluva will argue and argue and yell at the wind and throw rocks in the abyss and tell me that I am wrong. That the current Knicks can rebuild to contend in this four year timeline. Well Nixluva is an idiot. He's an idiot about the salary cap, how teams practically rebuild, the actual importance of team rapport and chemistry and generally about NBA Draft History as a tool for precedent.

In "fairy land" where there are rivers of butterscotch and there are trees that sprout donuts and lollipops and the pathways are paved with gingerbread, in that world, sure the Knicks can rebuild and contend under the Briggs and RonRon "Inception Level Trade Rape Within A Trade Rape" scenarios. These functionally operate as a players agent working against his own client and his own sense of self preservation, then the original franchise working against their own self interest and front offices sense of self preservation, then a team owner , not the Knicks, working against his own self interest, to defy the general sports media and open themselves up to cancelled season tickets and the open revolt of their fanbases for the Knicks can literally firebomb that team with some gutting nonsensical trade that would literally cause the entire NBA and Adam Silver to investigate because it would be so lopsided that it would appear collusive.

If the Knicks started right now, truly started right now, in terms of hiring a young GM for the future and trading Melo off the roster, they could attempt to contend in 5-7 years. It's not the sexy "movie like" script to play out. But it's the realistic slow grind team building that is needed, that all the contenders now had to go through at some point, to get better and to get to the cusp of being an elite team. The problem with the Briggs and RonRon type fairy land scenarios, the 18 month turnaround trade rapings, is they don't just require a first time geriatric GM to be smarter and never miss on a level never seen before in NBA draft history or front office history, but it would require the rest of the league to be inept on a level unseen in any kind of sports environment. You can't just bank on your team hitting lady luck over and over, you are demanding that 31 other teams be actively trying to sabotage themselves and just simply not care if they keep their jobs or feed their kids or not.

The Knicks don't have

1) Asset base in draft picks or trade worthy assets outside of Melo
2) The practical capspace
3) The timeline, in a practical sense
4) The margin for error inherent in the team building process
5) The existing roster, including critical development of recent draftees in a five year span before now

to contend in Melo's contract timeline. I don't see how it's possible.

This isn't Melo Hate. Take any one dimensional aging player coming off injury and put him on any roster in the league as barren and savaged as the Knicks with the same cap issues and lack of asset issues and I'd say the same thing.

You know what I notice about your Apocalyptic Posts? You never lay out a feasible plan for the Knicks yourself. How would you go about dealing with the Knicks particular set of issues in rebuilding the roster? Why not put your great intellect to work on something constructive and figure out how you would fix the Knicks.

It's easy to fling ish around and trash other people, but really your dark outlook isn't as enlightening as you think. Most of us realize that not everything is going to fail. There will be some progress this summer and we could catch some breaks. In other words there is some chance for success. We don't have to build a Title Contender in one summer. Why don't you tell us how you would revamp this team rather than kick dirt on everyone else's scenarios.

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:
dk might be on to something. If we are paying max money and a no trade clause....we should have the option to bring melo off the bench.

we also have the option to put the bottle down before we push send.

i did have the good fortune of having some high end bourgogne this afternoon. what'd you have? let me guess... hennessey, ciroc coconut, moet nectar imperial?

You sound like you have some experience with drinking and back door racist comments.

i have become familiar with both alcohol and racism, either through choice or necessity. how about you?

Only with internet thugs who use the internet to say what they would never say in person. Also with Internet thugs that use my UK name to place me in an ethnic group, without meeting me in person.

who came into the thread with an insult and an attempt to derail the thread? the answer is an internet thug, someone who would never accuse another man of being an alcoholic to his face.

see what i did there, champ?

Oh...i would tell you in your face to put the bottle down or leave the drugs alone because of this thread topic.....my comment had nothing to do with race. But if my statements affended you please forgive me. I would never say something in here i cant say face to face, including my drinking comment. But your comment on the other hand was racially offensive. And its something you would never say to a stranger you just met or dont know.

your comment was not only out of line it crossed a line. never mind about derailing the thread, which you also achieved. now several of the resident pod people are flinging their doo-doo my way on a witch hunt. thanks a lot.

anyway apology accepted. now it's your turn to forgive me and we can move on.

CA is a scorer and a tweener, he isn't the best defender in any position, he isn't a good facilitator, and he was utilized that way in team USA and had much success
Now at age 30+, he has been doing this for much of his career, can he really change at this point of his career? He doesn't have to change to much, if he played as the 6th man role, while helping preserve his career and playing against the 2nd units for an advantage on both OFFENSE and DEFENSE....

It depends if he will buy in and the rest of the roster, with the team's philosophy/talent/ability to fit in together

I personally do think think CA can be the first piece to build around for NYK's to be successfull, not with our lack of talent and lack of draft picks
However, there are teams that can afford CA at his salary and still be contenders, it was just the wrong move for us, in my opinion

It is irrelevent how much he makes but how he would fit in with the team if they do employ this

Manu
Crawford

David Lee
Wilson Chandler/Gallo

James Harden in OKC

Stretch 4's at some point in their career
===========================================

Al Harrington
Robert Horry
Ryan Anderson

Marcus Morris

Josh Smith

Many of these players do or did finish games while playing starter minutes anyway
sure there are others....

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:
dk might be on to something. If we are paying max money and a no trade clause....we should have the option to bring melo off the bench.

we also have the option to put the bottle down before we push send.

i did have the good fortune of having some high end bourgogne this afternoon. what'd you have? let me guess... hennessey, ciroc coconut, moet nectar imperial?

You sound like you have some experience with drinking and back door racist comments.

i have become familiar with both alcohol and racism, either through choice or necessity. how about you?

Only with internet thugs who use the internet to say what they would never say in person. Also with Internet thugs that use my UK name to place me in an ethnic group, without meeting me in person.

who came into the thread with an insult and an attempt to derail the thread? the answer is an internet thug, someone who would never accuse another man of being an alcoholic to his face.

see what i did there, champ?

Oh...i would tell you in your face to put the bottle down or leave the drugs alone because of this thread topic.....my comment had nothing to do with race. But if my statements affended you please forgive me. I would never say something in here i cant say face to face, including my drinking comment. But your comment on the other hand was racially offensive. And its something you would never say to a stranger you just met or dont know.

your comment was not only out of line it crossed a line. never mind about derailing the thread, which you also achieved. now several of the resident pod people are flinging their doo-doo my way on a witch hunt. thanks a lot.

anyway apology accepted. now it's your turn to forgive me and we can move on.

dude, would you cut it out with all of your non-basketball crap? This thread is about as dumb as ever and I'm a bit tired of all of the baiting, basketball and otherwise. Please stop.

fine martin-- you don't like the idea presented in the opening post just like a few others. for the record i want to point out that i was not the one who brought in non-basketball subject matter.

I've also heard and read that Melo can actually rebound, too. And, for whatever reason, you only have to watch about 3 games to see that he doesn't get to the line as much as people like Harden because he doesn't get the calls Harden does. No where near it, ever. And with the mortgage on the line, I'd take Melo defensively over Harden.

Reuniting with JR and Shump. Yeah, I'm sure that's high on Melo's wishlist. SMFH...