Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Didn't we miss out on Steph Curry a few years ago due to winning a couple of games too many?????

I thought its because Donnie fell asleep?

You are going to blame it on Donnie now???

Isn't that the protocal? Gotta blame a "PERSON" and then call for their head?
Isn't that what you want? Fire Fish For Phucking Fine Finish Formally Fretting Fortelling Fourth?

Nalod wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Didn't we miss out on Steph Curry a few years ago due to winning a couple of games too many?????

I thought its because Donnie fell asleep?

I was about to make the same point. One slot better in the draft and we would of had Steph Curry.

Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Didn't we miss out on Steph Curry a few years ago due to winning a couple of games too many?????

I thought its because Donnie fell asleep?

You are going to blame it on Donnie now???

Isn't that the protocal? Gotta blame a "PERSON" and then call for their head?
Isn't that what you want? Fire Fish For Phucking Fine Finish Formally Fretting Fortelling Fourth?

Like most of you, I have the right to my own opinion when it comes to Fisher. Some of you will not realize how terrible of a coach this dude is until his four years are up. If this dude was smart, he would have known that the best plan of action at this juncture is to tank to improve the team'a chance to obtain a top 2 pick. If I am not mistaken MDA made the same mistake the draft where Steph curry was drafted.

Knicks1969 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Didn't we miss out on Steph Curry a few years ago due to winning a couple of games too many?????

I thought its because Donnie fell asleep?

You are going to blame it on Donnie now???

Isn't that the protocal? Gotta blame a "PERSON" and then call for their head?
Isn't that what you want? Fire Fish For Phucking Fine Finish Formally Fretting Fortelling Fourth?

Like most of you, I have the right to my own opinion when it comes to Fisher. Some of you will not realize how terrible of a coach this dude is until his four years are up. If this dude was smart, he would have known that the best plan of action at this juncture is to tank to improve the team'a chance to obtain a top 2 pick. If I am not mistaken MDA made the same mistake the draft where Steph curry was drafted.

How do propose that Fish was to go about losing for sure? We already are playing without any legit starting caliber NBA players and a bunch of kids to boot. This team playing well was an example of his good coaching considering the lack of starting caliber talent we had in the game.

If you think he's such a horrible coach then surely his players should've given up on him by now and stopped playing hard. Why did they execute at such a high level last night if he hasn't been coaching these guys properly? Sure the Hawks weren't exactly giving a playoff effort but in the 4th quarter the Hawks were seriously trying to win. So when it counted the Knicks actually made plays on both ends and pulled it out.

Dude, players are playing well because they have ungaranteed comtract. As I have always said, I don't want the dude fired, because the last thing I want is for him to go home and is still collecting a pay check. I never liked the hire from the jump, because as a rational man, I could not fathom how two rookies can be successful In a media hungry environment like NY. Thus far, none of the moves that were made panned out.

I knew it was going to be a disaster from the jump due to lack of talent, but fisher is currently coaching to throw away a top pick. You Watch, this dumb team is going to go out and win the next game!

Papabear Says

The Knicks are a bunch of azz holes. They don't even know how to tank. Winning this game means nothing. 75% of the guys in a knicks uniform playing this game with the hawks won't be back next season. They sucked all season and now they want to play their ass off and right out of the chance for a number one pick. Every other team know how to tank but we have something to prove by winning this game? They better loose tomorrow night. Fisher better not let these good for nothing players go out there and win the damn game. the Timber wolves lost 11 in a row. Do you think they will try to win tomorrow night? Hell no. The commissioner need to make them play hard or take the first pick from them. Damn the Knicks win a game and we still loose.

Papabear wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Didn't we miss out on Steph Curry a few years ago due to winning a couple of games too many?????

I thought its because Donnie fell asleep?

You are going to blame it on Donnie now???

Isn't that the protocal? Gotta blame a "PERSON" and then call for their head?
Isn't that what you want? Fire Fish For Phucking Fine Finish Formally Fretting Fortelling Fourth?

Like most of you, I have the right to my own opinion when it comes to Fisher. Some of you will not realize how terrible of a coach this dude is until his four years are up. If this dude was smart, he would have known that the best plan of action at this juncture is to tank to improve the team'a chance to obtain a top 2 pick. If I am not mistaken MDA made the same mistake the draft where Steph curry was drafted.

How do propose that Fish was to go about losing for sure? We already are playing without any legit starting caliber NBA players and a bunch of kids to boot. This team playing well was an example of his good coaching considering the lack of starting caliber talent we had in the game.

If you think he's such a horrible coach then surely his players should've given up on him by now and stopped playing hard. Why did they execute at such a high level last night if he hasn't been coaching these guys properly? Sure the Hawks weren't exactly giving a playoff effort but in the 4th quarter the Hawks were seriously trying to win. So when it counted the Knicks actually made plays on both ends and pulled it out.

Dude, players are playing well because they have ungaranteed comtract. As I have always said, I don't want the dude fired, because the last thing I want is for him to go home and is still collecting a pay check. I never liked the hire from the jump, because as a rational man, I could not fathom how two rookies can be successful In a media hungry environment like NY. Thus far, none of the moves that were made panned out.

I knew it was going to be a disaster from the jump due to lack of talent, but fisher is currently coaching to throw away a top pick. You Watch, this dumb team is going to go out and win the next game!

Papabear Says

The Knicks are a bunch of azz holes. They don't even know how to tank. Winning this game means nothing. 75% of the guys in a knicks uniform playing this game with the hawks won't be back next season. They sucked all season and now they want to play their ass off and right out of the chance for a number one pick. Every other team know how to tank but we have something to prove by winning this game? They better loose tomorrow night. Fisher better not let these good for nothing players go out there and win the damn game. the Timber wolves lost 11 in a row. Do you think they will try to win tomorrow night? Hell no. The commissioner need to make them play hard or take the first pick from them. Damn the Knicks win a game and we still loose.

At this point it's unfortunate that we dropped to #2 but we have to keep things in perspective. We still have a chance at the #1 overall pick. They didn't strip us of our pick for winning the game. The worst case scenario is we fall to #6, which in this draft would still give us a chance to draft a very good prospect.

1  Karl Towns	        $4,750,000 
2  Jahlil Okafor	$4,250,000 
3  Emmanuel Mudiay	$3,820,000 
4  D'Angelo Russell	$3,440,000 
5  Justise Winslow	$3,120,000 
6  Willie Cauley-Stein	$2,830,000 
7  Mario Hezonja	$2,590,000 
8  Kristaps Porzingis	$2,370,000 
9  Stanley Johnson	$2,180,000 
10 Frank Kaminsky	$2,070,000 
11 Jakob Poeltl	        $1,960,000 
12 Myles Turner	        $1,870,000 
13 Kelly Oubre	        $1,770,000 
14 Kris Dunn	        $1,680,000 

Knicks1969 wrote:What will the Knicks do? Will those of you who are happy with winning the last few games be brave enough to call for heads to roll?

What the Knicks should do, if they pick ANYWHERE in the draft is to simply make the best out of the situation at hand. That's all you can really do. While I do find it utterly bizarre that the Knicks would put themselves in a position to win some late season meaningless games to throw off their best odds in a flushed season, all you can do is work with what you have right now.

For the quick fix "Let's rebuild this in 1 and a half season" folks, I think this is catastrophic. These are IMHO the misguided trade rapist/conjure up some fantastical scenario to push the Knicks into contention in like 18 months. Against NBA draft history, against practical market trends, against how teams actually operate under this current CBA, while actually accounting for how other teams will benefit/react/trade off in any personnel decision.

In the practical "It will probably take 5-6 years" group, which sees any rebuild of the Knicks taking time, to build an asset base, and heal from past mistakes, this will be one draft of many in the future that will hopefully push the franchise in a better direction.

I'll say this much, Fisher and Jackson might have incompatible goals. For Zen Master, this is pretty much it. Unless Jeanie Buss stages a total coup and Jackson spends his last years as defacto head of the Lakers in a few years, this is the end of the road for him.

But for Fisher, he's young enough to still carve out a long term coaching career. And generating some late season wins will help his coaching career, but not necessarily help the Knicks long term. But to a young coach, a job like the Knicks isn't your long term job, it's your first to get experience, training you for a later job you think is better.

My perspective is that Fisher has less reason to buy into the outright tank job than Jackson does. So to me, the indictment isn't on Fisher's coaching ( I think, in time, he can be a very good NBA head coach) but on Zen Master for hiring a guy whose goals are incompatible with where the team needs to go for the best possible future.

Again, and I've said it again and again. Phil Jackson might be the "better choice" for GM than Zeke or Dolan ( how hard is that?) but the danger is that he's far from the "right choice" for the franchises best future.

For any sports franchise to succeed, the entire organization needs to be in lockstep, on the same page, with the same overall vision and goal. Fisher doing what's best for Fisher is really a Jackson problem more than a Fisher problem. If Fisher bleeds out a few wins, he's doing his job as head coach. If a couple of empty wins hurts the long term hopes of the franchise because the GM hired a coach who wouldn't bind to marching orders for the best possible Knicks outcome, that's on the GM.

Whatever the case, the Knicks simply have to make the best of it. Every franchise right now who is pushing for contention, all of those franchises took time to get there. All the Knicks can do is focus on having a good year at a time at this point. Don't worry about three drafts from now ( unless the thought is to trade those picks) but just focus on making this current one count.

Towns
Oka4
Russell
Super Mario
Mundiay
Winslow

I think we have some good choices here. Worst case is 6th. Thats like 95% chance it won't happen. Lets say we get 3rd overall.

While we don't get a big, we get the alpha that can drive the triangle and "Phish" can get him Zen'd out young.
Sign Monroe is realistic.

Not pie in the sky but core that has a 31 allstar, 25 emerging big man and a rookie Alpha is not a bad transformation. Jordan was taken 3rd and Kobe 13th. KG was not top 3 pick either. Amare fell to 9th.
We are getting a potential franchise changing player. sometimes its good scouting, sometimes luck, sometimes both.

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:6th pick?

Towns
Oka4
Russell
Super Mario
Mundiay
Winslow

I think we have some good choices here. Worst case is 6th. Thats like 95% chance it won't happen. Lets say we get 3rd overall.

While we don't get a big, we get the alpha that can drive the triangle and "Phish" can get him Zen'd out young.
Sign Monroe is realistic.

Not pie in the sky but core that has a 31 allstar, 25 emerging big man and a rookie Alpha is not a bad transformation. Jordan was taken 3rd and Kobe 13th. KG was not top 3 pick either. Amare fell to 9th.
We are getting a potential franchise changing player. sometimes its good scouting, sometimes luck, sometimes both.

Very good post. It's not the end of the world. No matter what happens tonight this team is going to be in position to add a very good young talent. There are no guarantees just how good any of these players will be. Maybe the 6th pick will turn out to be the best player. We don't know. We might still get the #1 pick. It's all pure luck at this point.

its not pure luck

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:6th pick?

Towns
Oka4
Russell
Super Mario
Mundiay
Winslow

I think we have some good choices here. Worst case is 6th. Thats like 95% chance it won't happen. Lets say we get 3rd overall.

While we don't get a big, we get the alpha that can drive the triangle and "Phish" can get him Zen'd out young.
Sign Monroe is realistic.

Not pie in the sky but core that has a 31 allstar, 25 emerging big man and a rookie Alpha is not a bad transformation. Jordan was taken 3rd and Kobe 13th. KG was not top 3 pick either. Amare fell to 9th.
We are getting a potential franchise changing player. sometimes its good scouting, sometimes luck, sometimes both.

Very good post. It's not the end of the world. No matter what happens tonight this team is going to be in position to add a very good young talent. There are no guarantees just how good any of these players will be. Maybe the 6th pick will turn out to be the best player. We don't know. We might still get the #1 pick. It's all pure luck at this point.

its not pure luck

I mean we could really do this all day. Its luck.

This is not a draft where you have a Lebron, Duncan, Anthony Davis, etc type guy at the top where its that player and the rest. The talent level at the top of this draft has a ton of parity.

So at this point it really is pure luck. The higher you pick the more choices and the more pressure. The best players usually come from the top 10 picks, and especially the top 5. We will be there. #4 vs. #5 has very little impact over the years. There is no rhyme or reason why some guys flop and other guys blossom. Often easy to see in hindsight but there is no formula for drafting that always works. There just isnt.

Pure luck is pretty fair IMO. The entire draft process from picking to where you pick is pure luck. Even if you get it right you can still get snake bit by health.

Now FA is a differrent story... these are guys playing the NBA game. Phil must execute there. But the draft? You do your best and hope. Knicks are in a position to succeed in the draft this year as there are at least 5-6 guys that could be stars, but again it will be luck and randomness that eventually determines who is great and who we pick

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:6th pick?

Towns
Oka4
Russell
Super Mario
Mundiay
Winslow

I think we have some good choices here. Worst case is 6th. Thats like 95% chance it won't happen. Lets say we get 3rd overall.

While we don't get a big, we get the alpha that can drive the triangle and "Phish" can get him Zen'd out young.
Sign Monroe is realistic.

Not pie in the sky but core that has a 31 allstar, 25 emerging big man and a rookie Alpha is not a bad transformation. Jordan was taken 3rd and Kobe 13th. KG was not top 3 pick either. Amare fell to 9th.
We are getting a potential franchise changing player. sometimes its good scouting, sometimes luck, sometimes both.

Very good post. It's not the end of the world. No matter what happens tonight this team is going to be in position to add a very good young talent. There are no guarantees just how good any of these players will be. Maybe the 6th pick will turn out to be the best player. We don't know. We might still get the #1 pick. It's all pure luck at this point.

its not pure luck

Nerlens Noel (#6) looks much better than Alex Len (#5) doesnt he?
Damien Lillard (#6) looks much better than Thomas Robinson (#5) doesnt he?
Jonas Valanciunas (#5) looks much better than Triston Thompson (#4) doesnt he?
Cousins (#5) looks much better than Wesley Johnson (#4) doesnt he?
Monroe (#7) looks much better than Ekpe Udoh (#6) doesnt he?
Everyone looks better than Thabeet, but Steph Curry was taken after Rubio and Flynn and isnt he much better?

I mean we could really do this all day. Its luck.

This is not a draft where you have a Lebron, Duncan, Anthony Davis, etc type guy at the top where its that player and the rest. The talent level at the top of this draft has a ton of parity.

So at this point it really is pure luck. The higher you pick the more choices and the more pressure. The best players usually come from the top 10 picks, and especially the top 5. We will be there. #4 vs. #5 has very little impact over the years. There is no rhyme or reason why some guys flop and other guys blossom. Often easy to see in hindsight but there is no formula for drafting that always works. There just isnt.

Pure luck is pretty fair IMO. The entire draft process from picking to where you pick is pure luck. Even if you get it right you can still get snake bit by health.

Now FA is a differrent story... these are guys playing the NBA game. Phil must execute there. But the draft? You do your best and hope. Knicks are in a position to succeed in the draft this year as there are at least 5-6 guys that could be stars, but again it will be luck and randomness that eventually determines who is great and who we pick

+17 (losses)