crzymdups wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:The biggest question mark in FA is what Portland does with Wesley Matthews. I asssssuuuuuume they'll offer him a deal... but who the heck knows. That's a major injury.

I want to know how much they are willing to pay Ro.Lo

I feel like Ro.Lo will never leave Portland. The guy seems like the most natural fit in Portland ever. Heir to Bill Walton's tie dye shirt collection at some point. Portland seems like the kind of team where guys take slightly less to stay, because the fans like them and it's a quality organization and all that. I believe they paid Brandon Roy a lot of money even when it was clear he would never be the same. Who knows, I guess - maybe Robin wants to go comics shopping with Brook in Brooklyn.

didn't Roy get hurt after his big contract and the team and roy fought over declaring him injured.

IDK, about players taking less especially before the cap boom.

Anyway, I think the real advantage the Knicks have over some teams is the ability to go after FAs from other teams because they will renounce most of their cap holds. The best move for them is to play the RFA game early to make teams lock in their cap space. That will assist in preventing teams trying to get FAs before they go over the cap to resign RFAs using bird rights

Some of the young lower tier Free Agents might also view coming to NY as a great option. We can offer playing time and a big stage for them. Young players see how the Garden is sold out and there are Hollywood, Music and TV stars in the front row. I think they would look at that and a chance to play for Phil and with Melo as a positive.

yellowboy90 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

nixluva wrote:Not all teams will be buyers. Some teams will be using much of their space to retain top players.

I've tried to form a rough list of cap space teams will have but it's not 100% accurate due to cap holds which can change.

                                ACTIVE 
RANK    TEAM                    PLAYERS   GUARDS CAP    FORWARDS CAP    CENTERS CAP     TOTAL CAP       Cap Space
1	Philadelphia 76ers	11	  $4,171,689	$6,489,583	$8,084,760	31,927,380	$34,572,620
2	Portland Trail Blazers	8	  $17,629,187	$12,235,750	$8,091,879	37,956,816	$32,310,074
3	Detroit Pistons	        10	  $18,351,316	$11,108,458	$3,272,090	39,488,010	$27,011,990
4	New York Knicks	        5	  $9,552,391	$23,720,059	$0	        39,601,427	$26,898,573
5	Atlanta Hawks	        9	  $18,196,733	$10,027,088	$12,000,000	40,223,821	$24,715,679
6	San Antonio Spurs	6	  $17,016,447	$2,328,664	$16,000,000	42,425,096	$24,074,904
7	Dallas Mavericks	7	  $16,723,759	$25,640,495	$0	        43,906,698	$22,593,302
8	Phoenix Suns	        9	  $21,412,600	$17,211,545	$3,807,120	47,999,723	$18,500,277
9	Los Angeles Lakers	10	  $31,909,287	$6,802,151	$9,981,348	48,692,786	$17,807,214
10	Boston Celtics	        10	  $20,771,362	$15,800,625	$4,782,135	41,354,122	$14,557,030

It looks like you have both cap holds and 1st year contracts included in the total cap numbers. Is that correct? Did you use $4.7MM for the Knicks assuming #1 overall? Or #4 overall assuming that is the minimum contract we will have from our draft pick? Then 4 cap holds?

Roster spots look like they will be an issue for Philly.

cap holds are not included or else Portland would have zero space. by not including cap holds it creates an artificial kind of.

I mean for minimum roster... 507k for each player under 10 on the roster.

EwingsGlass wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

nixluva wrote:Not all teams will be buyers. Some teams will be using much of their space to retain top players.

I've tried to form a rough list of cap space teams will have but it's not 100% accurate due to cap holds which can change.

                                ACTIVE 
RANK    TEAM                    PLAYERS   GUARDS CAP    FORWARDS CAP    CENTERS CAP     TOTAL CAP       Cap Space
1	Philadelphia 76ers	11	  $4,171,689	$6,489,583	$8,084,760	31,927,380	$34,572,620
2	Portland Trail Blazers	8	  $17,629,187	$12,235,750	$8,091,879	37,956,816	$32,310,074
3	Detroit Pistons	        10	  $18,351,316	$11,108,458	$3,272,090	39,488,010	$27,011,990
4	New York Knicks	        5	  $9,552,391	$23,720,059	$0	        39,601,427	$26,898,573
5	Atlanta Hawks	        9	  $18,196,733	$10,027,088	$12,000,000	40,223,821	$24,715,679
6	San Antonio Spurs	6	  $17,016,447	$2,328,664	$16,000,000	42,425,096	$24,074,904
7	Dallas Mavericks	7	  $16,723,759	$25,640,495	$0	        43,906,698	$22,593,302
8	Phoenix Suns	        9	  $21,412,600	$17,211,545	$3,807,120	47,999,723	$18,500,277
9	Los Angeles Lakers	10	  $31,909,287	$6,802,151	$9,981,348	48,692,786	$17,807,214
10	Boston Celtics	        10	  $20,771,362	$15,800,625	$4,782,135	41,354,122	$14,557,030

It looks like you have both cap holds and 1st year contracts included in the total cap numbers. Is that correct? Did you use $4.7MM for the Knicks assuming #1 overall? Or #4 overall assuming that is the minimum contract we will have from our draft pick? Then 4 cap holds?

Roster spots look like they will be an issue for Philly.

cap holds are not included or else Portland would have zero space. by not including cap holds it creates an artificial kind of.

I mean for minimum roster... 507k for each player under 10 on the roster.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:I think in the case of some FA's the Knicks have spoken to their agents and have a general understanding of the benefits of NY over some place they may be right now. I think a guy like Greg Monroe is eager to get out of Detroit and he'd get his money in NY as long as he plays as well as he can and should play. These agents see how they paid Melo. I can see his agent viewing NY as a better landing spot.

Some of the young lower tier Free Agents might also view coming to NY as a great option. We can offer playing time and a big stage for them. Young players see how the Garden is sold out and there are Hollywood, Music and TV stars in the front row. I think they would look at that and a chance to play for Phil and with Melo as a positive.

I have a feeling Greg Monroe will go where they can S+T him to. Hes not leaving 34mm on the table. So the acquiring team needs to have assets to pay off Detroit to do it. He could come here for less but not many players have done that.

I don't see why any player wouldn't sign a short term contract and try to take advantage of all the money that will be coming. My guess is that Monroe would just sign a contract with an opt out clause.

It makes sense. Also, he took less money to become unrestricted. He didn't want to be in Detroit. That may have changed with Smith gone and SVG there.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:I think in the case of some FA's the Knicks have spoken to their agents and have a general understanding of the benefits of NY over some place they may be right now. I think a guy like Greg Monroe is eager to get out of Detroit and he'd get his money in NY as long as he plays as well as he can and should play. These agents see how they paid Melo. I can see his agent viewing NY as a better landing spot.

Some of the young lower tier Free Agents might also view coming to NY as a great option. We can offer playing time and a big stage for them. Young players see how the Garden is sold out and there are Hollywood, Music and TV stars in the front row. I think they would look at that and a chance to play for Phil and with Melo as a positive.

I have a feeling Greg Monroe will go where they can S+T him to. Hes not leaving 34mm on the table. So the acquiring team needs to have assets to pay off Detroit to do it. He could come here for less but not many players have done that.

If a team understands their guy is definitely leaving, they'll sometimes agree to a S&T just to get the trade exception and maybe a second round pick.

The only question is - why would the Knicks want to give a five year max to Greg Monroe?

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:I think in the case of some FA's the Knicks have spoken to their agents and have a general understanding of the benefits of NY over some place they may be right now. I think a guy like Greg Monroe is eager to get out of Detroit and he'd get his money in NY as long as he plays as well as he can and should play. These agents see how they paid Melo. I can see his agent viewing NY as a better landing spot.

Some of the young lower tier Free Agents might also view coming to NY as a great option. We can offer playing time and a big stage for them. Young players see how the Garden is sold out and there are Hollywood, Music and TV stars in the front row. I think they would look at that and a chance to play for Phil and with Melo as a positive.

I have a feeling Greg Monroe will go where they can S+T him to. Hes not leaving 34mm on the table. So the acquiring team needs to have assets to pay off Detroit to do it. He could come here for less but not many players have done that.

If a team understands their guy is definitely leaving, they'll sometimes agree to a S&T just to get the trade exception and maybe a second round pick.

The only question is - why would the Knicks want to give a five year max to Greg Monroe?

Greg may want to keep his options open. Perhaps he and his agent don't want a long term contract. With the cap situation about to change drastically he may want to maximize his ability to take advantage of that.

"Greg"??? Crap, man, he's not a Knick yet!

I think the Knicks will approach FA depending on what happens with the draft. If they get Okafor - there's no frickin' way they try to sign Monroe IMHO. You draft Russell? A guy like Monroe makes more sense. You draft Towns - Monroe makes some sense.

First domino in this whole process (and arguably the most important) will be the draft. Go from there.

But in my experience - no professional athlete is gonna leave guaranteed money on the table - it's crazy to do that. Hell, I wouldn't. What if Melo had taken a one year deal last year? He'd be screwed now. There's absolutely no guarantee the cap goes up. The owners do not want it to happen. There's already talk of a huge lockout in 2017, the biggest ever. I think guys will try to make sure to get as much guaranteed money before then as they can.

nixluva wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

nixluva wrote:Not all teams will be buyers. Some teams will be using much of their space to retain top players.

I've tried to form a rough list of cap space teams will have but it's not 100% accurate due to cap holds which can change.

                                ACTIVE 
RANK    TEAM                    PLAYERS   GUARDS CAP    FORWARDS CAP    CENTERS CAP     TOTAL CAP       Cap Space
1	Philadelphia 76ers	11	  $4,171,689	$6,489,583	$8,084,760	31,927,380	$34,572,620
2	Portland Trail Blazers	8	  $17,629,187	$12,235,750	$8,091,879	37,956,816	$32,310,074
3	Detroit Pistons	        10	  $18,351,316	$11,108,458	$3,272,090	39,488,010	$27,011,990
4	New York Knicks	        5	  $9,552,391	$23,720,059	$0	        39,601,427	$26,898,573
5	Atlanta Hawks	        9	  $18,196,733	$10,027,088	$12,000,000	40,223,821	$24,715,679
6	San Antonio Spurs	6	  $17,016,447	$2,328,664	$16,000,000	42,425,096	$24,074,904
7	Dallas Mavericks	7	  $16,723,759	$25,640,495	$0	        43,906,698	$22,593,302
8	Phoenix Suns	        9	  $21,412,600	$17,211,545	$3,807,120	47,999,723	$18,500,277
9	Los Angeles Lakers	10	  $31,909,287	$6,802,151	$9,981,348	48,692,786	$17,807,214
10	Boston Celtics	        10	  $20,771,362	$15,800,625	$4,782,135	41,354,122	$14,557,030

It looks like you have both cap holds and 1st year contracts included in the total cap numbers. Is that correct? Did you use $4.7MM for the Knicks assuming #1 overall? Or #4 overall assuming that is the minimum contract we will have from our draft pick? Then 4 cap holds?

Roster spots look like they will be an issue for Philly.

cap holds are not included or else Portland would have zero space. by not including cap holds it creates an artificial kind of.

I mean for minimum roster... 507k for each player under 10 on the roster.

the list is just a rough estimate. There are a lot of details that I didn't feel like going over for each team and each scenario. My main point is that the Knicks will be major players because they are real buyers and some teams are going to be playing defense and others aren't really looking to build thru Free Agency like the Knicks.

Agreed. I wasn't trying to sound critical. I just wanted to know what amount you used for the draft pick ... did you use the #1 pick rookie scale contract or the #4? The only benefit we get to falling in the draft is more cap space. So, if you are indifferent between the top 4 players, you might hope for the 4 pick. As much as I want Towns, Russell with the 4 pick would be a steal -- if it played out that way.

crzymdups wrote:

fin89 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Free agency is going to be brutally tough.

I'm with you Briggs, i'm pretty worried about FA and am not getting my hopes up due to the circumstances.

My rule for FA is pay attention to who Melo likes - supposedly Tobias Harris and most definitely Rondo. For my money, when the chips are down, Melo is still the loudest voice in the room about FA.