smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:why would any of them have a better chance of draft busting then another?

because some are worse decision makers than others

Really hard to predict this unless a GM has a history of reaching and failing.

You really don't think you can infer anything about a GM's thinking from his trades and signings that would be relevant to drafting?

I guess if they have a history of being old school and relying on old school methodologies such as eye tests and triangles.

A guy like David Kahn who was nontraditional and thought he was a genius was a good example of a bust candidate.

Did you look at the data for the guys you mentioned and how their picks turned out? P

hil has never picked anyone so do you assume that his inexperience may make him more susceptible to a bust?

Where are you going with this? What is your thought process?

So many people are talking about how thankful we should be that we had this bad year. I just wanted to get a sense of how widespread the denial of the possibility that this whole year was wasted is.

Please post your free agent targets and who you'd draft, so further down the line we can compare your judgement to Phil's. And none of that 'oh I already have somewhere in the past' - time to man up!

It depends on the price. There are about 300 players in the league who could be good or bad depending on the price. I've talked about some guys I'd eagerly contact like Butler, Millsap, Dragic, Wright, Greene but I have no idea what contract they'd accept.
In the draft, I think the order of the top 3 is a crapshoot but the top 3 are obvious.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:why would any of them have a better chance of draft busting then another?

because some are worse decision makers than others

Really hard to predict this unless a GM has a history of reaching and failing.

You really don't think you can infer anything about a GM's thinking from his trades and signings that would be relevant to drafting?

I guess if they have a history of being old school and relying on old school methodologies such as eye tests and triangles.

A guy like David Kahn who was nontraditional and thought he was a genius was a good example of a bust candidate.

Did you look at the data for the guys you mentioned and how their picks turned out? P

hil has never picked anyone so do you assume that his inexperience may make him more susceptible to a bust?

Where are you going with this? What is your thought process?

So many people are talking about how thankful we should be that we had this bad year. I just wanted to get a sense of how widespread the denial of the possibility that this whole year was wasted is.

Just curious, what were your expectations for this year based on the old roster, no cap space and limited future potential coming in to this year? Even if Melo was not signed and Tyson traded for better return, this year would have likely been wasted.

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:why would any of them have a better chance of draft busting then another?

because some are worse decision makers than others

Really hard to predict this unless a GM has a history of reaching and failing.

You really don't think you can infer anything about a GM's thinking from his trades and signings that would be relevant to drafting?

I guess if they have a history of being old school and relying on old school methodologies such as eye tests and triangles.

A guy like David Kahn who was nontraditional and thought he was a genius was a good example of a bust candidate.

Did you look at the data for the guys you mentioned and how their picks turned out? P

hil has never picked anyone so do you assume that his inexperience may make him more susceptible to a bust?

Where are you going with this? What is your thought process?

So many people are talking about how thankful we should be that we had this bad year. I just wanted to get a sense of how widespread the denial of the possibility that this whole year was wasted is.

Please post your free agent targets and who you'd draft, so further down the line we can compare your judgement to Phil's. And none of that 'oh I already have somewhere in the past' - time to man up!

It depends on the price. There are about 300 players in the league who could be good or bad depending on the price. I've talked about some guys I'd eagerly contact like Butler, Millsap, Dragic, Wright, Greene but I have no idea what contract they'd accept.
In the draft, I think the order of the top 3 is a crapshoot but the top 3 are obvious.

I think we will go after milsap- I think we'd love Butler but he ain't leaving Chicago unfortunately. Has Dragic's performance in miami not concerned you (in regards to a max)? I was looking forward to seeing how he did, but he's been a bit subdued. Green also won't be available, unfortunately. How about Danny Green?

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:We need a new poll on if an Internet forum poster who must be a slacker at work since he has infinite time to post and google advanced basketball stats knows more about basketball than a guy who's dedicated his life to the game with more titles than fingers.

Note that I never once said the answer to the question was Phil Jackson or made a guarantee about the future.

Because your specialty on this forum is being passive aggressive and alluding to players, coaches and management's fallacies without directly saying it. That's called not taking a stand. We all know what you are referring to in this thread, stop being a ***** and take a direct stand about Phil for once.

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:We need a new poll on if an Internet forum poster who must be a slacker at work since he has infinite time to post and google advanced basketball stats knows more about basketball than a guy who's dedicated his life to the game with more titles than fingers.

Note that I never once said the answer to the question was Phil Jackson or made a guarantee about the future.

Because your specialty on this forum is being passive aggressive and alluding to players, coaches and management's fallacies without directly saying it. That's called not taking a stand. We all know what you are referring to in this thread, stop being a ***** and take a direct stand about Phil for once.

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:We need a new poll on if an Internet forum poster who must be a slacker at work since he has infinite time to post and google advanced basketball stats knows more about basketball than a guy who's dedicated his life to the game with more titles than fingers.

Note that I never once said the answer to the question was Phil Jackson or made a guarantee about the future.

Because your specialty on this forum is being passive aggressive and alluding to players, coaches and management's fallacies without directly saying it. That's called not taking a stand. We all know what you are referring to in this thread, stop being a ***** and take a direct stand about Phil for once.

His performance so far is an F or at best a D but that could obviously change. What more info do you want?

To admit that this thread is aimed solely at singling out PJ.

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:why would any of them have a better chance of draft busting then another?

because some are worse decision makers than others

Really hard to predict this unless a GM has a history of reaching and failing.

You really don't think you can infer anything about a GM's thinking from his trades and signings that would be relevant to drafting?

I guess if they have a history of being old school and relying on old school methodologies such as eye tests and triangles.

A guy like David Kahn who was nontraditional and thought he was a genius was a good example of a bust candidate.

Did you look at the data for the guys you mentioned and how their picks turned out? P

hil has never picked anyone so do you assume that his inexperience may make him more susceptible to a bust?

Where are you going with this? What is your thought process?

So many people are talking about how thankful we should be that we had this bad year. I just wanted to get a sense of how widespread the denial of the possibility that this whole year was wasted is.

Just curious, what were your expectations for this year based on the old roster, no cap space and limited future potential coming in to this year? Even if Melo was not signed and Tyson traded for better return, this year would have likely been wasted.

Inheriting a near .500 team and adding $150 mil in future commitments. Most people were predicting at least 45 wins. I wasn't but they had a reasonable expectation given the above.

In your situation, we'd have double the cap space, more assets (return on Tyson trade), and still the #1 lottery odds.

Who are these people that predicted 45 wins? They don't exist. If you go back to the prediction thread you'll find it is filled with people predicting around 35 wins. There might have been one post in that entire thread, probably from one of the more optimistic fans that you find "delusional", that may have said 45 wins. So no, "most" fans did not think this was a 45 win roster and if they did I'm sure you would have mocked their predictions anyway.

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:why would any of them have a better chance of draft busting then another?

because some are worse decision makers than others

Really hard to predict this unless a GM has a history of reaching and failing.

You really don't think you can infer anything about a GM's thinking from his trades and signings that would be relevant to drafting?

I guess if they have a history of being old school and relying on old school methodologies such as eye tests and triangles.

A guy like David Kahn who was nontraditional and thought he was a genius was a good example of a bust candidate.

Did you look at the data for the guys you mentioned and how their picks turned out? P

hil has never picked anyone so do you assume that his inexperience may make him more susceptible to a bust?

Where are you going with this? What is your thought process?

So many people are talking about how thankful we should be that we had this bad year. I just wanted to get a sense of how widespread the denial of the possibility that this whole year was wasted is.

Just curious, what were your expectations for this year based on the old roster, no cap space and limited future potential coming in to this year? Even if Melo was not signed and Tyson traded for better return, this year would have likely been wasted.

Inheriting a near .500 team and adding $150 mil in future commitments. Most people were predicting at least 45 wins. I wasn't but they had a reasonable expectation given the above.

In your situation, we'd have double the cap space, more assets (return on Tyson trade), and still the #1 lottery odds.

Who are these people that predicted 45 wins? They don't exist. If you go back to the prediction thread you'll find it is filled with people predicting around 35 wins. There might have been one post in that entire thread, probably from one of the more optimistic fans that you find "delusional", that may have said 45 wins. So no, "most" fans did not think this was a 45 win roster and if they did I'm sure you would have mocked their predictions anyway.

I said 45 wins before Bargs was out for most of the season, THJ had his sophmore slump, Melo had his knee problems and sat out half a season, Calderon had his worst season in many years plus injuries, and JR and Shump got traded.

After 20 plus years of this franchise making the playoffs at any cost or bust, Phil decided to scrap that philosophy, lose games, and go for the highest pick. I doubt anyone saw that coming at the beginning of the season. Was off by 2 games the season before.

franco12 wrote:Weren't Darko & Kwame both pretty much respected as somewhat deserving on being picked where they were? Meaning if they weren't picked where they were, they would have fallen a bit further, but not much?

Busts will happen, what I would worry about is picking a guy where he doesn't belong based on consensus (e.g., Briggs nightmare of Phil picking Stein with #1) and then that player not living up to the gamble.

But if we're one and we pick Okafor or Towns and either don't work out -I don't think you can really call that a bust.

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:why would any of them have a better chance of draft busting then another?

because some are worse decision makers than others

Really hard to predict this unless a GM has a history of reaching and failing.

You really don't think you can infer anything about a GM's thinking from his trades and signings that would be relevant to drafting?

I guess if they have a history of being old school and relying on old school methodologies such as eye tests and triangles.

A guy like David Kahn who was nontraditional and thought he was a genius was a good example of a bust candidate.

Did you look at the data for the guys you mentioned and how their picks turned out? P

hil has never picked anyone so do you assume that his inexperience may make him more susceptible to a bust?

Where are you going with this? What is your thought process?

So many people are talking about how thankful we should be that we had this bad year. I just wanted to get a sense of how widespread the denial of the possibility that this whole year was wasted is.

Just curious, what were your expectations for this year based on the old roster, no cap space and limited future potential coming in to this year? Even if Melo was not signed and Tyson traded for better return, this year would have likely been wasted.

Inheriting a near .500 team and adding $150 mil in future commitments. Most people were predicting at least 45 wins. I wasn't but they had a reasonable expectation given the above.

In your situation, we'd have double the cap space, more assets (return on Tyson trade), and still the #1 lottery odds.

Who are these people that predicted 45 wins? They don't exist. If you go back to the prediction thread you'll find it is filled with people predicting around 35 wins. There might have been one post in that entire thread, probably from one of the more optimistic fans that you find "delusional", that may have said 45 wins. So no, "most" fans did not think this was a 45 win roster and if they did I'm sure you would have mocked their predictions anyway.

Dude, cut it out. Most people on the forum were predicting 45 wins (and the playoffs) courtesy of a late season push after hovering around .500 for the season. The mere suggestion otherwise that the was usually met with ridicule. I should know, I was one of the guys who thought that the roster was awful albeit better than how we actually performed. Bonn had a similarly gloomy forecast for the team as well, though it was contingent on how well Calderon played.