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As of today, Towns is the clear number one. Do you agree?
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mreinman
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We all wanted to see what happens if Towns was tested and needed to be the man (or else) and he came up huge.

Ok4 had a very mediocre game and it was not like he was constantly doubled in this game. This should set off an alarm about whether defenders can stop him at the next level.

Do you agree that he is the consensus number one (as of today)? Or do you think that it is Ok4?

Towns will be the first pick
Ok4 will be the first pick
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meloshouldgo
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3/29/2015  10:38 PM
Finestrg wrote:
nixluva wrote:Towns is still a bit raw and clumsy at times. He's not very smooth in the post but he can be effective. Really on the other end he's just what we need. That's why I think he's the better prospect for the Knicks. I don't dislike OK4. I just think KAT solves more of the teams problems in one move.

Well said. That's it in a nutshell. Completely agree.

What really tough offensive players has Towns defended against especially one on one? I am not challenging your statement - just curious if his body work really includes that or not.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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gunsnewing
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3/29/2015  10:39 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:Still voting for OK4. Towns scored against a shooting guard and an 6'8" undersized center last night, but I don't see him doing that in the pros for a while.

Phil Jackson pal: Knicks need ‘bigger butt’ than Kentucky’s Towns

http://nypost.com/2015/03/29/phil-jackson-pal-knicks-need-bigger-butt-than-kentuckys-towns/

After watching Towns in the NCAA Tournament, Rosen says, “Towns is not a big-enough body. He’d never get that position in the NBA. He doesn’t have enough power or core strength. He wouldn’t be able to set up one dribble away from the basket. He’s not a kind of center you need in the triangle. He’s not physically that type of center, but he’s athletic and does other things. Look how far out (Lou) Amundson, (Jason) Smith and (Andrea) Bargnani get pushed out when they post up, well out of the box.’’

What a dumb article. If this guy is praising Admundson and hasnt really seen Ok4 play?????? What the hell does he know ? How can you not see ok4 play all year hes been on 30 times.

He isn't praising Amundson he is saying he isn't big enough to hold his position.

You cant take anything about someone who hasnt seen Okafor play 1nce seriously. Weve been in position to take pick 1-3 all year and he never watched Ok4? Does he know that Towns is 6-10.5 250 and doctors think he may peak our between 7-1 and 7-2? You cant not follow something than talk about it like you do know--frankly thats a terrible article.

+1
BigDaddyG
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3/29/2015  10:46 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:Still voting for OK4. Towns scored against a shooting guard and an 6'8" undersized center last night, but I don't see him doing that in the pros for a while.

Phil Jackson pal: Knicks need ‘bigger butt’ than Kentucky’s Towns

http://nypost.com/2015/03/29/phil-jackson-pal-knicks-need-bigger-butt-than-kentuckys-towns/

After watching Towns in the NCAA Tournament, Rosen says, “Towns is not a big-enough body. He’d never get that position in the NBA. He doesn’t have enough power or core strength. He wouldn’t be able to set up one dribble away from the basket. He’s not a kind of center you need in the triangle. He’s not physically that type of center, but he’s athletic and does other things. Look how far out (Lou) Amundson, (Jason) Smith and (Andrea) Bargnani get pushed out when they post up, well out of the box.’’

What a dumb article. If this guy is praising Admundson and hasnt really seen Ok4 play?????? What the hell does he know ? How can you not see ok4 play all year hes been on 30 times.

He isn't praising Amundson he is saying he isn't big enough to hold his position.

You cant take anything about someone who hasnt seen Okafor play 1nce seriously. Weve been in position to take pick 1-3 all year and he never watched Ok4? Does he know that Towns is 6-10.5 250 and doctors think he may peak our between 7-1 and 7-2? You cant not follow something than talk about it like you do know--frankly thats a terrible article.


But he isn't talking about OK4. He's talking about Towns and his ability to score down low at the next level. His observations aren't new. They've been brought up a number of times by other members on this board.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
gunsnewing
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3/29/2015  10:49 PM
I don't know about that. Those same members admitted to not watching Towns until now
BRIGGS
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3/29/2015  11:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/30/2015  12:05 AM
Knicks1969 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Ok4 looked poor his last two games. If you watch early in the season he looked more spry and athletic. He was moving way to slow up and down the court today. Its funny because if Duke went out after SD ST the last impression is very high with a great body of work. I think its fair to say that Towns jumped well ahead of him this weekend --whether its injury(he has a long sleeve on one of his legs fatigue of a freshmen who weighs 275? who had a lot of weight t o carry I'm not sure but his body of work puts him at either 1 or 2. Id say 2 right now.

Oh my! BRIGGS has changed his stance on Okafor::))

On the real, both kids are excellent players we could use, but personally, the one player I like the most is Russell.

Both guy are 1 and 1a most people have gone back and forth on it including the major draft sites. Its pretty simple Towns and Ok4 are 1-2 no change.. I think NBA guys have a lot of cash in the bank on both guys already. I dont see one game changing this. Some guys like Ok4 some guys like Towns and they will go 1-2 in the draft.

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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3/30/2015  12:01 AM
"The only thing that set him back was the injury in the first North Carolina game (Feb. 18). That stopped some of his growth because he's had to compensate. Since then, he's pretty much played at less than 100 percent."

The nagging ankle problem limited Okafor's mobility and hindered his play, particularly on the defensive end.


---snippet from SI

He's playing hurt.

RIP Crushalot😞
nixluva
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3/30/2015  12:07 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Ok4 looked poor his last two games. If you watch early in the season he looked more spry and athletic. He was moving way to slow up and down the court today. Its funny because if Duke went out after SD ST the last impression is very high with a great body of work. I think its fair to say that Towns jumped well ahead of him this weekend --whether its injury(he has a long sleeve on one of his legs fatigue of a freshmen who weighs 275? who had a lot of weight t o carry I'm not sure but his body of work puts him at either 1 or 2. Id say 2 right now.

Oh my! BRIGGS has changed his stance on Okafor::))

On the real, both kids are excellent players we could use, but personally, the one player I like the most is Russell.

Both guy are 1 and 1a most people have gone back and forth on it including the major draft sites. Its pretty simple Towns and Ok4 are 1-2 no change..


Both Players are very talented and also still very young and in need of work physically and skills wise. What we see now is just a glimpse at what they'll be capable of as they mature and develop as players. Both should be good pros. I think for the Knicks needs Towns is a good fit. Mainly due to his defensive abilities. He'll get better offensively with work. The Knicks need as many good defenders as possible and he can help anchor the defense and at the same time I think he'd be effective in the Triangle as well. Perhaps not as great as OK4 but good enough.
FistOfOakley
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3/30/2015  12:28 AM
there hasn't been a doubt in my mind as of three months ago... the numbers started turning and towns ditched floating from the perimeter and went to work exclusively in the post which did wonders for his overall offensive game....

that separated himself from someone like myles turner... he's wildly more efficient now... culminating in the notre dame game but it's been in the works for awhile for anyone following towns closely.. he compares very favorably to tim duncan at the same age in terms of his numbers...

in terms of the eye test... he makes quick decisions on offense and reacts quickly on defense... those things are an underrated but important aspect for all players and he passes those benchmarks well...

he should be the clear #1 and he is so far ahead of the others right now it won't be long before it's a consensus... towns is a similar player to embiid as a prospect... embiid was slightly more athletic and more skilled in the low post but towns is more physical and doesn't have those injury question marks...

if the knicks don't pick him and he's available where they pick.. that will go down as the worst draft decision in team history...
nixluva
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3/30/2015  12:58 AM
It really depends on what they want to start with. If you want an offensive anchor then OK4 is the right guy. He's got the size and girth to be a post player you need. If you want a defensive anchor than it's Towns. He's a more natural and active defender. He's not yet big enough but he'll mature and grow into his frame. We can make it work with either player. They're both great prospects. You will be looking to pair them with another big who can complement their skills.
gunsnewing
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3/30/2015  5:57 AM
BRIGGS wrote:"The only thing that set him back was the injury in the first North Carolina game (Feb. 18). That stopped some of his growth because he's had to compensate. Since then, he's pretty much played at less than 100 percent."

The nagging ankle problem limited Okafor's mobility and hindered his play, particularly on the defensive end.


---snippet from SI

He's playing hurt.

Ankles get better in 2 days. If it's high ankle he wouldn't be playing
Bonn1997
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3/30/2015  6:03 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:Still voting for OK4. Towns scored against a shooting guard and an 6'8" undersized center last night, but I don't see him doing that in the pros for a while.

Phil Jackson pal: Knicks need ‘bigger butt’ than Kentucky’s Towns

http://nypost.com/2015/03/29/phil-jackson-pal-knicks-need-bigger-butt-than-kentuckys-towns/

After watching Towns in the NCAA Tournament, Rosen says, “Towns is not a big-enough body. He’d never get that position in the NBA. He doesn’t have enough power or core strength. He wouldn’t be able to set up one dribble away from the basket. He’s not a kind of center you need in the triangle. He’s not physically that type of center, but he’s athletic and does other things. Look how far out (Lou) Amundson, (Jason) Smith and (Andrea) Bargnani get pushed out when they post up, well out of the box.’’

Yeah, you have to go on the season's worth of data, not a game or two. This reminds me of when Jerome James kicked butt against an undersized team in a playoff series. Isiah Thomas ignored James' entire career and gave him that 30 mil contract. No I'm not saying Towns is James - just don't get too up or down from game to game.
gunsnewing
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3/30/2015  6:45 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/30/2015  6:46 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:Still voting for OK4. Towns scored against a shooting guard and an 6'8" undersized center last night, but I don't see him doing that in the pros for a while.

Phil Jackson pal: Knicks need ‘bigger butt’ than Kentucky’s Towns

http://nypost.com/2015/03/29/phil-jackson-pal-knicks-need-bigger-butt-than-kentuckys-towns/

After watching Towns in the NCAA Tournament, Rosen says, “Towns is not a big-enough body. He’d never get that position in the NBA. He doesn’t have enough power or core strength. He wouldn’t be able to set up one dribble away from the basket. He’s not a kind of center you need in the triangle. He’s not physically that type of center, but he’s athletic and does other things. Look how far out (Lou) Amundson, (Jason) Smith and (Andrea) Bargnani get pushed out when they post up, well out of the box.’’

Yeah, you have to go on the season's worth of data, not a game or two. This reminds me of when Jerome James kicked butt against an undersized team in a playoff series. Isiah Thomas ignored James' entire career and gave him that 30 mil contract. No I'm not saying Towns is James - just don't get too up or down from game to game.

If someone makes the decision to draft OK4 based on his college stats they are making a colossal mistake. Won't be the first time though. You actually do have to watch college players to actually access and project. They are not finished products yet as the pros are. You can evaluate a 5yr player using metrics alone. Not college freshmen.

Nothing like Jerome James. These guys are 19. James was around 30
Bonn1997
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3/30/2015  7:02 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/30/2015  7:03 AM
gunsnewing wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:Still voting for OK4. Towns scored against a shooting guard and an 6'8" undersized center last night, but I don't see him doing that in the pros for a while.

Phil Jackson pal: Knicks need ‘bigger butt’ than Kentucky’s Towns

http://nypost.com/2015/03/29/phil-jackson-pal-knicks-need-bigger-butt-than-kentuckys-towns/

After watching Towns in the NCAA Tournament, Rosen says, “Towns is not a big-enough body. He’d never get that position in the NBA. He doesn’t have enough power or core strength. He wouldn’t be able to set up one dribble away from the basket. He’s not a kind of center you need in the triangle. He’s not physically that type of center, but he’s athletic and does other things. Look how far out (Lou) Amundson, (Jason) Smith and (Andrea) Bargnani get pushed out when they post up, well out of the box.’’

Yeah, you have to go on the season's worth of data, not a game or two. This reminds me of when Jerome James kicked butt against an undersized team in a playoff series. Isiah Thomas ignored James' entire career and gave him that 30 mil contract. No I'm not saying Towns is James - just don't get too up or down from game to game.

If someone makes the decision to draft OK4 based on his college stats they are making a colossal mistake. Won't be the first time though. You actually do have to watch college players to actually access and project. They are not finished products yet as the pros are. You can evaluate a 5yr player using metrics alone. Not college freshmen.

Nothing like Jerome James. These guys are 19. James was around 30


OK - I meant "information" more so than just stats when I said "data." That could include eyeball information but you'd have to go by the whole year, not a game or 2.
I was never implying that the players were similar to Jerome James - only that giving too much weight to one or two games against undersized opponents is a bad idea.
gunsnewing
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3/30/2015  7:26 AM
Gotcha Bonn. I just want to point out that towns improved drastically as the year went along and Ok4 regressed/was exposed as a elite collgee post player and not much on the defensive end
Bonn1997
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3/30/2015  7:28 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/30/2015  7:30 AM
gunsnewing wrote:Gotcha Bonn. I just want to point out that towns improved drastically as the year went along and Ok4 regressed/was exposed as a elite collgee post player and not much on the defensive end

Yeah, I can't bring myself to watch an entire college game but I did notice Towns' #s improving as the year went on. I would be excited about drafting either of them or Russell.
My dream scenario would be that we draft two of them in a scenario involving Melo to LA, LA sending assets to Minn, and us taking all of Minn's bad contracts and their lottery pick.
gunsnewing
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3/30/2015  7:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/30/2015  8:02 AM
Absolutely. Any combination of Towns with

Ok4
Russell
Mudiay
Winslow
Stein

Would be amazing
GustavBahler
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3/30/2015  7:51 AM
The NBA draft combine is in May, if any player has a chance of leapfroging the other potential picks, its Russell IMO. He will have an opportunity to display his passing skills with much better players, players who can finish.
dk7th
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3/30/2015  7:54 AM
GustavBahler wrote:The NBA draft combine is in May, if any player has a chance of leapfroging the other potential picks, its Russell IMO. He will have an opportunity to display his passing skills with much better players, players who can finish.

we need defenders at every position. does he defend? i did not see the last game he played but the man who was guarding him scored a bunch, and he doesn't project to be an nba player.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
GustavBahler
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3/30/2015  8:10 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/30/2015  8:13 AM
dk7th wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:The NBA draft combine is in May, if any player has a chance of leapfroging the other potential picks, its Russell IMO. He will have an opportunity to display his passing skills with much better players, players who can finish.

we need defenders at every position. does he defend? i did not see the last game he played but the man who was guarding him scored a bunch, and he doesn't project to be an nba player.

His defense needs work, but Russell's skills on offense, in particular his passing skills are too tempting to pass up. I did see Russell make a few nice stops during the tournament, he has a very long wingspan, but his D is a work in progress.

I agree that we really need some frontcourt help, better defenders, but I believe finding a solid big man will be easier than finding someone with Russell's skills without giving up the farm to do it.

From what Ive read he is a natural born leader, passes sometimes to a fault, but sees the floor like someone who is already in the league. I will be happy with OK4 or Towns, I just see someone who could be a great guard in a guard driven league.
StarksEwing1
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3/30/2015  8:12 AM
My top 2 choices are Towns or Russell. Obviously i would be happy if we ended up with Okafor but i feel the other two will be better in the longrun
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