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The Draft Lottery Is Evil. But There's A Silver Lining
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NardDogNation
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3/27/2015  4:53 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/27/2015  4:54 PM
Nalod wrote:
fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:
fishmike wrote:I like this draft a lot and there are 5 guys I view as franchise ceiling players so Im not sweating it. We all have our preferences but ultimately walking away with OK4/Russel/Towns/Mudiay/Hezonja gives us a prospect with legit franchise caliber talent.

to me its top 3 or bust(ish) and that is only a 65% chance which are good odds but #4 slot has a 35% chance which sucks.

Mudiay or the euro does not excite me at all.

please watch some vids on Hezonja. Draft express as a bunch. Mudiay doesnt really excite me either but I keep reading the talent is there so he's kind of a place holder.

Hezonja blew me away. He's a legit 6'8 SG. He's an above the rim player who can really hit the 3. He looks like a white version of Tracy McGrady. Get comfy with his name... he's the kind of player the triangle was build for. He could be Phil's superstar SG.

Watched the video but the music was really heavy urban with dropping "Bytch" this and "Bytch" that and over use of the "N" word just did not match the kids game!

I was thinking some euroTech music might have worked better! I get where your coming from and don't know this kids buy out status because I have not seen him on every mock draft.
Was wondering what his make up is. To be taken so high if by knicks and given the keys to the triangle I wonder if phil thinks he has the stones to be a team leader. Based on his previous Triangles, he was able to take uber Type A and turn bring out a near sociopath focus. Zen removes the fear and this is what Jordan and Kobe were able to embrace and move beyond into iconic figures.

This is no small task and not every player can handle it.

Remove the fear of failure and success can be allowed.

You were not alone in that sentiment. It's why I generally mute mix-tapes. Personally, I prefer to listen to sound bites from the announcers rather than actual music. DraftExpress is one of the few that offers a happy median though.
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SupremeCommander
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3/27/2015  4:55 PM
give me ping pong balls mthfkr
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
SupremeCommander
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3/27/2015  4:55 PM
nixluva wrote:It's designed to torture team fanbases. You can devise a more soul crushing system for destroying a fans hopes and dreams. I've compiled this list of the draft lottery results and for the most part even tho being the worst team doesn't guarantee you'll get the top pick, it at least keeps you from dropping ridiculously far down. Being locked into 1-4 picks is not that bad.

One thing I noticed is that the draft has kind of SUCKED over the years. Thank God this draft is actually a pretty good one in terms of talent and we have our pick for a change. 


2014	                                                Pre-Lottery 	
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances Position      Pick Change  Player Taken  
1	Cleveland Cavaliers	33-49	1.70%	17	9th	      +8	   Andrew Wiggins
2	Milwaukee Bucks	        15-67	25.00%	250	1st	      -1	   Jabari Parker
3	Philadelphia Sixers	19-63	19.90%	199	2nd	      -1	   Joel Embiid	
4	Orlando Magic	        23-59	15.60%	156	3rd	      -1	   Aaron Gordon	
5	Utah Jazz	        25-57	10.40%	104	4th	      -1	   Dante Exum	
6	Boston Celtics	        25-57	10.30%	103	5th	      -1	   Marcus Smart	
7	Los Angeles Lakers	27-55	6.30%	63	6th	      -1	   Julius Randle
8	Sacramento Kings	28-54	4.30%	43	7th	      -1	   Nik Stauskas	
2013                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken	
1	Cleveland Cavaliers	24-58	15.60%	156	3rd	      +2	   Anthony Bennett	
2	Orlando Magic	        20-62	25.00%	250	1st	      -1	   Victor Oladipo
3	Washington Wizards	29-53	3.50%	35	8th	      +5	   Otto Porter	
4	Charlotte Hornets	21-61	19.90%	199	2nd	      -2	   Cody Zeller	
5	Phoenix Suns	        25-57	11.90%	119	4th	      -1	   Alex Len	
6	New Orleans Pelicans	27-55	8.80%	88	5th	      -1	   Nerlens Noel	
7	Sacramento Kings	28-54	6.30%	63	6th	      -1	   Ben McLemore	
8	Detroit Pistons	        29-53	3.60%	36	7th	      -1	   Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2012                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	New Orleans Pelicans	21-45	13.70%	137	4th	      +3	   Anthony Davis
2	Charlotte Hornets	7-59	25.00%	250	1st	      -1	   Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
3	Washington Wizards	20-46	19.90%	199	2nd	      -1	   Bradley Beal
4	Cleveland Cavaliers	21-45	13.80%	138	3rd	      -1	   Dion Waiters	
2011                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	Los Angeles Clippers	32-50	2.80%	28	8th	      +7	   Kyrie Irving	       Cleveland Cavaliers
2	Minnesota Timberwolves	17-65	25.00%	250	1st	      -1	   Derrick Williams	
3	New Jersey Nets	        24-58	7.50%	75	6th	      +3	   Enes Kanter	       Utah Jazz
4	Cleveland Cavaliers	19-63	19.90%	199	2nd	      -2	   Tristan Thompson	
5	Toronto Raptors	        22-60	15.60%	156	3rd	      -2	   Jonas Valanciunas	
6	Washington Wizards	23-59	11.90%	119	4th	      -2	   Jan Vesely	
7	Sacramento Kings	24-58	7.60%	76	5th	      -2	   Bismack Biyombo
8	Detroit Pistons	        30-52	4.30%	43	7th	      -1	   Brandon Knight
2010                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	Washington Wizards	26-56	10.30%	103	5th	      +4	   John Wall	
2	Philadelphia Sixers	27-55	5.30%	53	6th	      +4	   Evan Turner	
3	New Jersey Nets	        12-70	25.00%	250	1st	      -2	   Derrick Favors
4	Minnesota Timberwolves	15-67	19.90%	199	2nd	      -2	   Wesley Johnson
5	Sacramento Kings	25-57	15.60%	156	3rd	      -2	   DeMarcus Cousins
6	Golden State Warriors	26-56	10.40%	104	4th	      -2	   Ekpe Udoh	
2009                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	Los Angeles Clippers	19-63	17.70%	177	3rd	      +2	   Blake Griffin
2	Memphis Grizzlies	24-58	7.50%	75	6th	      +4	   Hasheem Thabeet
3	Oklahoma City Thunder	23-59	11.90%	119	4th	      +1	   James Harden	
4	Sacramento Kings	17-65	25.00%	250	1st	      -3	   Tyreke Evans	
5	Washington Wizards	19-63	17.80%	178	2nd	      -3	   Ricky Rubio	       Minnesota Timberwolves
6	Minnesota Timberwolves	24-58	7.60%	76	5th	      -1	   Jonny Flynn	       Minnesota Timberwolves
2008                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	Chicago Bulls	        33-49	1.70%	17	9th	      +8	   Derrick Rose	
2	Miami Heat	        15-67	25.00%	250	1st	      -1	   Michael Beasley
3	Minnesota Timberwolves	22-60	13.80%	138	3rd	       0	   O.J. Mayo	
4	Seattle SuperSonics	20-62	19.90%	199	2nd	      -2	   Russell Westbrook	
5	Memphis Grizzlies	22-60	13.70%	137	4th	      -1	   Kevin Love	
6	New York Knicks	        23-59	7.60%	76	5th	      -1	   Danilo Gallinari
7	Los Angeles Clippers	23-59	7.50%	75	6th	      -1	   Eric Gordon	
8	Milwaukee Bucks	        26-56	4.30%	43	7th	      -1	   Joe Alexander
9	Charlotte Hornets	32-50	2.80%	28	8th	      -1	   D.J. Augustin
2007                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	Portland Trail Blazers	32-50	5.30%	53	7th	      +6	   Greg Oden	
2	Seattle SuperSonics	31-51	8.80%	88	5th	      +3	   Kevin Durant	
3	Atlanta Hawks	        30-52	11.90%	119	4th	      +1	   Al Horford	
4	Memphis Grizzlies	22-60	25.00%	250	1st	      -3	   Mike Conley
5	Boston Celtics	        24-58	19.90%	199	2nd	      -3	   Jeff Green	
6	Milwaukee Bucks	        28-54	15.60%	156	3rd	      -3	   Jianlian Yi
7	Minnesota Timberwolves	32-50	5.30%	53	6th	      -1	   Corey Brewer
2006                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	Toronto Raptors	        27-55	8.80%	88	5th	      +4	   Andrea Bargnani
2	New York Knicks	        23-59	19.90%	199	2nd	       0	   LaMarcus Aldridge	Chicago Bulls
3	Charlotte Hornets	26-56	13.80%	138	3rd	       0	   Adam Morrison
4	Portland Trail Blazers	21-61	25.00%	250	1st	      -3	   Tyrus Thomas	
5	Atlanta Hawks	        26-56	13.70%	137	4th	      -1	   Shelden Williams
2005                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	Milwaukee Bucks	        30-52	6.30%	63	6th	      +5	   Andrew Bogut
2	Atlanta Hawks	        13-69	25.00%	250	1st	      -1	   Marvin Williams
3	Portland Trail Blazers	26-56	11.90%	119	4th	      +1	   Deron Williams	Utah Jazz
4	New Orleans Pelicans	18-64	17.80%	178	2nd	      -2	   Chris Paul	
5	Charlotte Hornets	18-64	17.70%	177	3rd	      -2	   Raymond Felton
6	Utah Jazz	        27-55	8.80%	88	5th	      -1	   Martell Webster	Portland Trail Blazers

painful

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
nixluva
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3/27/2015  5:19 PM
Gamblers would say "we're due". It amazes me that they wanted to change it to make it even harder for a bad team to get the #1 pick. It's already freakin hard!!!
Vmart
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3/27/2015  5:26 PM
I think these drafts are rigged. I mean look at the leaps that Cleveland has. You think they were being rewarded for losing LeBron. holy shyt they have won 4 times since LeBron. This is not possible and it's funny no one questions it. In such a short period of time.
FistOfOakley
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3/27/2015  5:32 PM
as long as most owners agree a progressive system is the way to go.. meaning the worst teams should have overweight odds... then you can't really stop tanking...

the draft has sucked the past few years and the reason for that is the lack of big men .... injuries: jabari parker, noel, embiid, oden or just way overrated prospects: mkg, marvin williams, bargnani, wesley johnson, bennett... played a large role...

but this is a different draft... it's going to be the best one since 07 at least because there are very talented bigs plus some interesting players up and down the first rd...
nixluva
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3/27/2015  5:40 PM
FistOfOakley wrote:as long as most owners agree a progressive system is the way to go.. meaning the worst teams should have overweight odds... then you can't really stop tanking...

the draft has sucked the past few years and the reason for that is the lack of big men .... injuries: jabari parker, noel, embiid, oden or just way overrated prospects: mkg, marvin williams, bargnani, wesley johnson, bennett... played a large role...

but this is a different draft... it's going to be the best one since 07 at least because there are very talented bigs plus some interesting players up and down the first rd...

Just makes it all the more important that we're in the running for a Change.
FistOfOakley
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3/27/2015  7:31 PM
the #4 spot is really ugly... and if there was a spot to move down and gain more picks that would be it.. but i have zero confidence in the knicks front office actually having some foresight in scouting other players...
nixluva
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3/27/2015  8:09 PM
FistOfOakley wrote:the #4 spot is really ugly... and if there was a spot to move down and gain more picks that would be it.. but i have zero confidence in the knicks front office actually having some foresight in scouting other players...

Knicks have great scouts, including Clarence Gaines Jr who was with the Bulls during their title years and Mark Warkentien who hired Dean Oliver the original NBA Metrics guru. We need to stop assuming that the Knicks are stupid when they actually have accomplished men on staff.
FistOfOakley
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3/27/2015  8:29 PM
i didn't know about dean oliver actually... that's pretty cool..
nixluva
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3/28/2015  1:57 AM
FistOfOakley wrote:i didn't know about dean oliver actually... that's pretty cool..

We've gotta stop believing all the crap the Knick hating Media puts out about the Knicks. They want to try and paint this team as dumb and out of touch. They write that this team is anti Analytics and some lap it up cuz it fits their own negative view of the team. We need to at least see what they do this summer.

The truth is there are some good basketball minds in this front office. Men who have reputations as good evaluators. This is going to be a huge summer in terms of team building. They all have pride and belief in their skills. Now they're gonna have the options and resources to truly bring in the right talent.
CrushAlot
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3/28/2015  2:46 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:give me ping pong balls mthfkr

Five words that cover everything.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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4/13/2015  11:33 PM
Just for a little perspective since we now are in the 2nd spot for the lottery. It's rarely exactly how it starts out based on record, so who knows what will happen this year. It's the luck of the draw.


2014	                                                Pre-Lottery 	
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances Position      Pick Change  Player Taken  
1	Cleveland Cavaliers	33-49	1.70%	17	9th	      +8	   Andrew Wiggins
2	Milwaukee Bucks	        15-67	25.00%	250	1st	      -1	   Jabari Parker
3	Philadelphia Sixers	19-63	19.90%	199	2nd	      -1	   Joel Embiid	
4	Orlando Magic	        23-59	15.60%	156	3rd	      -1	   Aaron Gordon	
5	Utah Jazz	        25-57	10.40%	104	4th	      -1	   Dante Exum	
6	Boston Celtics	        25-57	10.30%	103	5th	      -1	   Marcus Smart	
7	Los Angeles Lakers	27-55	6.30%	63	6th	      -1	   Julius Randle
8	Sacramento Kings	28-54	4.30%	43	7th	      -1	   Nik Stauskas	
2013                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken	
1	Cleveland Cavaliers	24-58	15.60%	156	3rd	      +2	   Anthony Bennett	
2	Orlando Magic	        20-62	25.00%	250	1st	      -1	   Victor Oladipo
3	Washington Wizards	29-53	3.50%	35	8th	      +5	   Otto Porter	
4	Charlotte Hornets	21-61	19.90%	199	2nd	      -2	   Cody Zeller	
5	Phoenix Suns	        25-57	11.90%	119	4th	      -1	   Alex Len	
6	New Orleans Pelicans	27-55	8.80%	88	5th	      -1	   Nerlens Noel	
7	Sacramento Kings	28-54	6.30%	63	6th	      -1	   Ben McLemore	
8	Detroit Pistons	        29-53	3.60%	36	7th	      -1	   Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2012                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	New Orleans Pelicans	21-45	13.70%	137	4th	      +3	   Anthony Davis
2	Charlotte Hornets	7-59	25.00%	250	1st	      -1	   Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
3	Washington Wizards	20-46	19.90%	199	2nd	      -1	   Bradley Beal
4	Cleveland Cavaliers	21-45	13.80%	138	3rd	      -1	   Dion Waiters	
2011                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	Los Angeles Clippers	32-50	2.80%	28	8th	      +7	   Kyrie Irving	       Cleveland Cavaliers
2	Minnesota Timberwolves	17-65	25.00%	250	1st	      -1	   Derrick Williams	
3	New Jersey Nets	        24-58	7.50%	75	6th	      +3	   Enes Kanter	       Utah Jazz
4	Cleveland Cavaliers	19-63	19.90%	199	2nd	      -2	   Tristan Thompson	
5	Toronto Raptors	        22-60	15.60%	156	3rd	      -2	   Jonas Valanciunas	
6	Washington Wizards	23-59	11.90%	119	4th	      -2	   Jan Vesely	
7	Sacramento Kings	24-58	7.60%	76	5th	      -2	   Bismack Biyombo
8	Detroit Pistons	        30-52	4.30%	43	7th	      -1	   Brandon Knight
2010                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	Washington Wizards	26-56	10.30%	103	5th	      +4	   John Wall	
2	Philadelphia Sixers	27-55	5.30%	53	6th	      +4	   Evan Turner	
3	New Jersey Nets	        12-70	25.00%	250	1st	      -2	   Derrick Favors
4	Minnesota Timberwolves	15-67	19.90%	199	2nd	      -2	   Wesley Johnson
5	Sacramento Kings	25-57	15.60%	156	3rd	      -2	   DeMarcus Cousins
6	Golden State Warriors	26-56	10.40%	104	4th	      -2	   Ekpe Udoh	
2009                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	Los Angeles Clippers	19-63	17.70%	177	3rd	      +2	   Blake Griffin
2	Memphis Grizzlies	24-58	7.50%	75	6th	      +4	   Hasheem Thabeet
3	Oklahoma City Thunder	23-59	11.90%	119	4th	      +1	   James Harden	
4	Sacramento Kings	17-65	25.00%	250	1st	      -3	   Tyreke Evans	
5	Washington Wizards	19-63	17.80%	178	2nd	      -3	   Ricky Rubio	       Minnesota Timberwolves
6	Minnesota Timberwolves	24-58	7.60%	76	5th	      -1	   Jonny Flynn	       Minnesota Timberwolves
2008                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	Chicago Bulls	        33-49	1.70%	17	9th	      +8	   Derrick Rose	
2	Miami Heat	        15-67	25.00%	250	1st	      -1	   Michael Beasley
3	Minnesota Timberwolves	22-60	13.80%	138	3rd	       0	   O.J. Mayo	
4	Seattle SuperSonics	20-62	19.90%	199	2nd	      -2	   Russell Westbrook	
5	Memphis Grizzlies	22-60	13.70%	137	4th	      -1	   Kevin Love	
6	New York Knicks	        23-59	7.60%	76	5th	      -1	   Danilo Gallinari
7	Los Angeles Clippers	23-59	7.50%	75	6th	      -1	   Eric Gordon	
8	Milwaukee Bucks	        26-56	4.30%	43	7th	      -1	   Joe Alexander
9	Charlotte Hornets	32-50	2.80%	28	8th	      -1	   D.J. Augustin
2007                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	Portland Trail Blazers	32-50	5.30%	53	7th	      +6	   Greg Oden	
2	Seattle SuperSonics	31-51	8.80%	88	5th	      +3	   Kevin Durant	
3	Atlanta Hawks	        30-52	11.90%	119	4th	      +1	   Al Horford	
4	Memphis Grizzlies	22-60	25.00%	250	1st	      -3	   Mike Conley
5	Boston Celtics	        24-58	19.90%	199	2nd	      -3	   Jeff Green	
6	Milwaukee Bucks	        28-54	15.60%	156	3rd	      -3	   Jianlian Yi
7	Minnesota Timberwolves	32-50	5.30%	53	6th	      -1	   Corey Brewer
2006                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	Toronto Raptors	        27-55	8.80%	88	5th	      +4	   Andrea Bargnani
2	New York Knicks	        23-59	19.90%	199	2nd	       0	   LaMarcus Aldridge	Chicago Bulls
3	Charlotte Hornets	26-56	13.80%	138	3rd	       0	   Adam Morrison
4	Portland Trail Blazers	21-61	25.00%	250	1st	      -3	   Tyrus Thomas	
5	Atlanta Hawks	        26-56	13.70%	137	4th	      -1	   Shelden Williams
2005                                                    Pre-Lottery
Pick	Team	                Record	Odds	Chances	Position      Pick Change  Player Taken
1	Milwaukee Bucks	        30-52	6.30%	63	6th	      +5	   Andrew Bogut
2	Atlanta Hawks	        13-69	25.00%	250	1st	      -1	   Marvin Williams
3	Portland Trail Blazers	26-56	11.90%	119	4th	      +1	   Deron Williams	Utah Jazz
4	New Orleans Pelicans	18-64	17.80%	178	2nd	      -2	   Chris Paul	
5	Charlotte Hornets	18-64	17.70%	177	3rd	      -2	   Raymond Felton
6	Utah Jazz	        27-55	8.80%	88	5th	      -1	   Martell Webster	Portland Trail Blazers
knickscity
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4/14/2015  4:48 AM
With that chart, with the number 2 pick, the Knicks will pick am awful player.
franco12
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4/14/2015  7:02 AM
seems like the team with the 2nd worst record ends up picking 4/5 a lot. SO glad we've won these meaningless games. When we miss out on this years Stephen Curry and we have Jordan Hill (WCS), then I will be so done with this team.

I'm glad we're not trying to lose games, but the only thing we could win this year is the draft, and these last 2 bull**** victories have cost us ping pong balls for what really matters to this franchise this year.

Phil absolutely should have told Fisher "Don't try to lose, but whatever you do, don't win any games".

And maybe Phil should have put someone on the DL.
EwingsGlass
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4/14/2015  7:34 AM
Kool-Aid Lover says: Lower draft pick means lower salary for Rookie Scale Contract. If I am fine with any of the top 5 players, then it does not matter. E.g. maybe I want either Winslow, Mudiay or Russell?

Knick's fan says: What the hell... you tank the entire season AND then go on a winning streak at the end when you are about to hit the payday. What kind of idiot does that? You HAVE to be happy with any player in the top 5 to be willing to do that. But if you are not careful, you could end up with the #7 pick... seriously, what kind of idiot would do that? \

I guess I have been wrong about this brain trust. Grrr.

You know I gonna spin wit it
gunsnewing
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4/14/2015  7:36 AM
That chart is downright depressing. Nice job Knicks. I'm bracing for a 6-14 pick
gunsnewing
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4/14/2015  7:41 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2015  7:53 AM
The funny thing is UK members have access to these charts but the professionals, the Knicks probably don't both to look into anything.

Is there anyway we can fall to 3rd? I rather be there than 2nd
StarksEwing1
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Joined: 12/28/2012
Member: #4451
4/14/2015  7:51 AM
I knew the knicks have been a dumb franchise but this is a whole new level. Hell even minneosta and philly must be shaking their heads in amazement.
EwingsGlass
Posts: 27542
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 4/29/2005
Member: #893
USA
4/14/2015  8:01 AM
Fish might be dead to me. If he was trying to win all season and did this poorly he deserves to get fired. If he was tanking all season and then unilaterally decided to f--- up the tank, he deserves to get fired. If he cannot control his players...you get the point.

I am absolutely DUMBFOUNDED. I cannot express my frustration with this team enough. How do you f--- up a tank -- against the best team in your Conference? Start 5 of the 7 dwarves... Make today the day to grant Make a Wish Foundation 5 starters. My only pride from this season was that they tanked better than everyone else. But they even mucked that up.

They are literally now 2nd place loser. About to be 3rd place loser. They cannot even get losing right. My Kool-Aid glass is now empty.

You know I gonna spin wit it
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