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fishmike
Posts: 53866 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA |
3/27/2015 12:55 PM
BRIGGS wrote:you said it for me... he's got excellent passing skills and always seems to make good plays out of double teams.misterearl wrote:Basketball is a team sport Melo is a great shooter. OK4 will be finding a lot of easy shots for him. "winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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BRIGGS
Posts: 53275 Alba Posts: 7 Joined: 7/30/2002 Member: #303 |
3/27/2015 1:12 PM
fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:you said it for me... he's got excellent passing skills and always seems to make good plays out of double teams.misterearl wrote:Basketball is a team sport Yep--think about the difference there between Towns and Ok4 here. Ok4 has his head up while controlling his man and dribble(sometimes as double teamed) He is almost ALWAYS looking for the pass as he rarely makes poor decisions with the ball. He rarely forces plays. On the other hand Towns has his head down and he concentrates on banging his defender to get better position quite recklessly which has picked him up an inordinate amount of fouls this year early in games. The amount of assists they have is close but if you notice Okafor's pass is usually the first in a series of ball movements. RIP Crushalot😞
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fishmike
Posts: 53866 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA |
3/27/2015 1:19 PM
BRIGGS wrote:there's a word for it... Towns is a spaz. When your a taller stronger bigger spaz than your opponent your going to be good in CBB. The NBA guys will carve him up. If you watch, the stuff about OK4 doing these drills since he was in 8th grade tells you what your seeing. He doesnt think about his footwork. Its automatic. So he can keep his head up.fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:you said it for me... he's got excellent passing skills and always seems to make good plays out of double teams.misterearl wrote:Basketball is a team sport He really baits teams to double him, draws it and passes out of it. Ive also seen him start way out of the paint and back his guy right down for a layup. You cant bang against him and he will go right around with contact, but he knows how to really protect the ball when he puts it on the floor. There are other good players but OK4 is such an easy pick for #1 now. Most of the args against it are just to say something different. Hell I remember Chad Ford writting that teams should consider Darko at #1 even as great as Lebron appears. Guys sometimes write to write. FWIW: OK4 back to #1 on nbadraft "winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
3/27/2015 2:10 PM
I like Towns for the Knicks in terms of how he could totally change the teams defensive posture but also still provide offense. He's not the same as OK4 in term of impacting your offense for years to come. OK4 is an offense onto himself. He's the focal point and everything else orbits his position. IMO Towns could be that for this team on Defense. All of our players could play aggressively on D knowing he's back there. IF anything if we got Towns i'd look to add another defensive big next to him and pretty much mimic the KU interior defense. Then you could run teams off the 3pt line and into the teeth of your interior defense. Phil already loves big guards and long players on the perimeter.
I can see both ways being successful whether you take OK4 or Towns. |
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fishmike
Posts: 53866 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA |
3/27/2015 2:21 PM
nixluva wrote:I like Towns for the Knicks in terms of how he could totally change the teams defensive posture but also still provide offense. He's not the same as OK4 in term of impacting your offense for years to come. OK4 is an offense onto himself. He's the focal point and everything else orbits his position. IMO Towns could be that for this team on Defense. All of our players could play aggressively on D knowing he's back there. IF anything if we got Towns i'd look to add another defensive big next to him and pretty much mimic the KU interior defense. Then you could run teams off the 3pt line and into the teeth of your interior defense. Phil already loves big guards and long players on the perimeter.this is the problem I have when guys write about Towns. I hear how he will be much better rounded on both sides of the ball and his defense will instantly help etc etc.. Well have you seen KY play? Will Towns be in a zone next to a DPOY and be allowed to roam free to harrass any smaller player who wanders into the paint? No he wont. So what exactly is the expectation and time frame for a kid who's 4th on his team in scoring, 2nd in rebounding and is coming to a new team and new sysem against vastly superior competition while not being able to employ what has brought him success at KY? "winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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NardDogNation
Posts: 27405 Alba Posts: 4 Joined: 5/7/2013 Member: #5555 |
3/27/2015 2:29 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:BRIGGS wrote:The thing with Okafor--hes so good on the offensive end--kind of like a Karl Malone type--where everything can be run through you and you can produce at such a high rate--that the game becomes easier for your teammates. There is so much attention needed to just contain OK4 that his teammates are rewarded with additional spacing and thats why Duke hits 3's in a high %. Duke starts 3 freshmen and have had the hardest schedule in CBB By far--for example the hardest team KY has played all year was a Kenpon #26 ranked team. Duke has beat 5 top #10 ranked teams including Wisconsin at Wisconsin and Virginia at Virginia. As much as other teams just cant replicate KY overall size no team can handle Ok4s strength size agility and touch. In the NBA he will be good right away--I just try to in-vision who in the NBA will be able to stop him in the post where he has MORE room. He could easily take a lot of pressure off of Carmelo as teams cannot double team two players. We will be able to do much more with less. As long as guys can hit an open shot--with BOTH Okafor and Anthony--there will be two guys wide open a LOT. If we take a look back--Karl Malone was no great defender--he was passable--he fit in. he worked hard and gave effort and Okafor will do the same. I just think he needs some defensive skill training and some leg work that emphasizes lateral explosion--but what he has on offense--no one in the NBA has it other than a very healthy Al Jefferson and Okafor is a longer player and 12 years I wholeheartedly agree. People harpoon him for not being a good defender but that is much easier to fix than not being a good offensive player. Marc Gasol was that, as a similarly built player and now he is a perennial DPOY candidate. With Okafor's athleticism, I don't see why he can't follow a similar path. Even if things don't work out like that, we can always find a Tyson Chandler to his Eddy Curry. |
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
3/27/2015 2:30 PM
fishmike wrote:nixluva wrote:I like Towns for the Knicks in terms of how he could totally change the teams defensive posture but also still provide offense. He's not the same as OK4 in term of impacting your offense for years to come. OK4 is an offense onto himself. He's the focal point and everything else orbits his position. IMO Towns could be that for this team on Defense. All of our players could play aggressively on D knowing he's back there. IF anything if we got Towns i'd look to add another defensive big next to him and pretty much mimic the KU interior defense. Then you could run teams off the 3pt line and into the teeth of your interior defense. Phil already loves big guards and long players on the perimeter.this is the problem I have when guys write about Towns. I hear how he will be much better rounded on both sides of the ball and his defense will instantly help etc etc.. I understand what you're saying but this is where scouting comes into play. Towns has more talent than he's displaying on KU. He's going to be able to spread his wings a lot more in the NBA and you should see some impressive reports come out of his workouts and the combine. In the NBA I think a team like the Knicks will pair him up with another big much like he's had with KU. There are no guarantees but my sense is that he's going to develop into much more than you see right now, which is very exciting to consider. He's still a baby and hasn't fully filled out or developed his game. OK4 is ahead of him developmentally. Defensively Towns has his head on a swivel and is quick to react to the ball and shutdown penetration. I think he could help anchor our defense and change how we play. If we also paired him with another quality big he'll be even more impactful. |
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FistOfOakley
Posts: 21079 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 2/18/2010 Member: #3075 |
3/27/2015 8:45 PM
towns is by all accounts a better defender than stein... he has much better fundamentals and better instincts.. keeps his hands up at all times ... especially when having to switch against a guard... looks at the right things... and most importantly quick reactions...
that's really the bulk of what it takes... |
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TPercy
Posts: 28010 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/5/2014 Member: #5748 |
3/27/2015 9:29 PM
misterearl wrote:Basketball is a team sport Nice to see someone who see's it as I see it, The Future is Bright!
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TPercy
Posts: 28010 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/5/2014 Member: #5748 |
3/27/2015 9:37 PM
FistOfOakley wrote:towns is by all accounts a better defender than stein... he has much better fundamentals and better instincts.. keeps his hands up at all times ... especially when having to switch against a guard... looks at the right things... and most importantly quick reactions... Yup. On paper he also blocks more and gets more rebounds aswell. The Future is Bright!
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CrushAlot
Posts: 59764 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/25/2003 Member: #452 USA |
3/27/2015 9:45 PM
Great article. Thanks for posting it.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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Finestrg
Posts: 27296 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/1/2006 Member: #1069 |
3/28/2015 10:20 AM LAST EDITED: 3/28/2015 10:29 AM
nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Id be surprised to see if CA didnt like Okafor. First off we know that Ok4 WILL FIND THE OPEN MAN--we see that every game. It gives him a player that will take heat off himself. You cannot double team two players on one team. It will give him a second legit 20 point scorer but as a young lad will defer to Melo and listen to Melo. Check. Hes a bully when you go to a fight you want a 6-11 275 pound guy with hands as big as sledge hammers on your side. Hes efficient. There is NO player we will get via trade that will be a better fit for Melo--None. Melo needs to play a hybrid wing position. His knee cant handle guarding 260 pound guys in the post. Melo can officially follow around the spot up shooter from the other team whether that's 2-5 If we had a defensive wing--we could play Melo Okafor and a wing who can block shots. Thanks for posting. You kinda forget about Thanasis -- he could be a very important piece for us next year. Wally's right, he does play HARD. And it looks like his offense is coming along nicely. Looks athletic & strong as hell, he can shoot, take it hard to the basket. Dude's motor is incredible and I actually like his skill-level too...Gotta love that defense is his constant bread & butter though...There's potential for a very nice 2-way rotation player here. I'm really looking forward to seeing him next year. Just because we never brought him up doesn't mean he's not in the mix. I think we just wanted to maintain flexibility with him. Kinda like a minor league baseball player you can send down because you still have options on him. I think TA is very much in the plans for next yr.. Briggs brings up Eric Griffin -- I like him too. I want Early to succeed but there may come time where we realize Early's not cutting it -- Griffin might wind up being a better option than Early, someone who could backup/play alongside Melo for stretches, someone who can score the ball and also supply standout defense...Imagine how much improved our defense would be with Thanasis AND Eric Griffin alone. The fact that these two can also contribute offensively is an added bonus. And we could add both guys for peanuts..Long 6'9" shot-blocker Khem Birch, same deal. Rim protection plus he could contribute offensively as well. No idea how Phil puts the 15-man together for next year but I like that he has options--there's plenty of offensive and defensive players out there, some he could get pretty cheap. |
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BRIGGS
Posts: 53275 Alba Posts: 7 Joined: 7/30/2002 Member: #303 |
3/28/2015 10:56 AM
Okafor really has little chance to do much last night--they had a a 7 footer behind him a 6-7 guy hedging on the side and a guard moved over every time the ball slid near his side. They were living and dying with taking him out. If I could make a criticism of ok4--I wouldve liked to see him play with more force last night. A little too much relaince on the finesse part of the game when he had his chances which were few and far between. As in grab the ball and just try to turn and ram it into the basket. His rebounding was good--you can see how he can become a special rebounder and he tried to make several passes some of which were the poor cross court variety. Hard to judge a game where you are being surrounded. I remember once Uconn in the NCAA sagged 3 players on Shaq and he had 9 points in the game his junior year when he was averaging 30. Okafor was a little underwhelming last night but its easy to say that when you are having hard double and triple teams throwing at you.
I think Winslow has gone into serious consideration for pick #3. One thing that was not shown last night was Winslow's ball handling abilities--he can truly play the game end to end and if there is anything close to a Scottie Pippen type player who could eventually play a point 3 or point 2 I think Winslow is a beast. Powerful uber athletic but he already has that beautiful lefty stroke in his FRESHMEN year down which should only get better
RIP Crushalot😞
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CrushAlot
Posts: 59764 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/25/2003 Member: #452 USA |
3/28/2015 11:07 AM
Finestrg wrote:I was feeling the same way about Early but he really looked good last night and in the game against the Clippers. Breen mentioned that he might finally be over his injury. The guy looks totally different both in terms of confidence and how much he hustles. The last few games will be fun to watch to see if he can keep things up.nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Id be surprised to see if CA didnt like Okafor. First off we know that Ok4 WILL FIND THE OPEN MAN--we see that every game. It gives him a player that will take heat off himself. You cannot double team two players on one team. It will give him a second legit 20 point scorer but as a young lad will defer to Melo and listen to Melo. Check. Hes a bully when you go to a fight you want a 6-11 275 pound guy with hands as big as sledge hammers on your side. Hes efficient. There is NO player we will get via trade that will be a better fit for Melo--None. Melo needs to play a hybrid wing position. His knee cant handle guarding 260 pound guys in the post. Melo can officially follow around the spot up shooter from the other team whether that's 2-5 If we had a defensive wing--we could play Melo Okafor and a wing who can block shots. I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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gunsnewing
Posts: 55076 Alba Posts: 5 Joined: 2/24/2002 Member: #215 USA |
3/28/2015 1:23 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Okafor really has little chance to do much last night--they had a a 7 footer behind him a 6-7 guy hedging on the side and a guard moved over every time the ball slid near his side. They were living and dying with taking him out. If I could make a criticism of ok4--I wouldve liked to see him play with more force last night. A little too much relaince on the finesse part of the game when he had his chances which were few and far between. As in grab the ball and just try to turn and ram it into the basket. His rebounding was good--you can see how he can become a special rebounder and he tried to make several passes some of which were the poor cross court variety. Hard to judge a game where you are being surrounded. I remember once Uconn in the NCAA sagged 3 players on Shaq and he had 9 points in the game his junior year when he was averaging 30. Okafor was a little underwhelming last night but its easy to say that when you are having hard double and triple teams throwing at you. Good point. Winslow is very sound with his jumper for a freshman. Skies the limit for him and his handle has improved. Not sure who goes 3,4,5 between Russell, Mudiay or Winslow. Hell of a draft that's for sure. Best since Lebron draft |