holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:There is something wrong with a ranking system that has KLove ahead of LeBron..Curry and Harden ahead of Tony Allen, etc..Zach Randolf on its list..

The whole point is to try and take opinion and passion out of the equation as much as possible. These metrics are not perfect but they try to tell the truth. The player gets credit for actual defensive plays including rebounds which is a huge part of the equation some forget to give credit for.

You get credit for rebounds by saying its a rebound..Rebounds play a major role in the game..If you add rebounds to numbers to prop up your defensive stats, to make you seem capable, then this is inaccurate and therefore misleading...Because what is happening here is that I'm looking at one number and it's telling me that overall, KLove is more valuable defensively than LeBron which we all know is insane...

Gotta adjust your thinking a bit cuz defensive rebounding is a big part of finishing any defensive possession. It's not separate from defense and should be counted. Monroe isn't perfect but if we don't get OK4 my bet is Monroe gets a call from Phil.

Well if you think that finishing a defensive possession puts him ahead of LeBron as a defender then I'm not the one who needs an adjustment in thinking..

Monroe like Love is a zero impact player..Puts up nice numbers if you are into watching box scores...I like a guy who gets wins and to the playoffs better..

Question, including rebounds is Love a better overall defensive player than LeBron??..If not then why are those stats telling me he is??

nixluva wrote:No one would suggest that when you need a stop that you'd want Love or Monroe to be the guy over Lebron! People forget that over the course of a game there are lots of possessions that require tough rebounding too! So just cuz some want to diminish that grunt work doesn't negate the fact that a player is giving that production. Some of those rebound can be just as key to wins as a shot block or steal or missed shot due to defense. Tho not as sexy. This is why they have these stats!

My question is, if looking at these stats doesn't tell you whether or not a player can be used when you need a stop over another player, then what is the point??

All the teams in the NBA with winning records and playoff bound are doing so with quality Point Guards. Except Chi and Houston who have top quality SGs. Memphis & Chi may be the only team who have bigs with the highest usage on the team. Though I haven't looked at every team.

Monroe's defensive rating this yr per 100 possessions is 103 this yr which is not bad at all. He just doesn't block shots but he gets steals. And has been 105 and lower 3 out of the 5 yrs he has played. Combine that with his rebounding and ability to pass and he may actually be a little underrated on this board. Though him making max still is to much but at 12 mil it would be a good deal especially with the new salary cap.

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:No one would suggest that when you need a stop that you'd want Love or Monroe to be the guy over Lebron! People forget that over the course of a game there are lots of possessions that require tough rebounding too! So just cuz some want to diminish that grunt work doesn't negate the fact that a player is giving that production. Some of those rebound can be just as key to wins as a shot block or steal or missed shot due to defense. Tho not as sexy. This is why they have these stats!

My question is, if looking at these stats doesn't tell you whether or not a player can be used when you need a stop over another player, then what is the point??