Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Id bring up Nate Wolters Willie Reed and Eric Griffin and release Ricky Ledo Bargnanai and Jason Smith. Ive seen enough. Lets take a look at some athletic frontcourt defenders who might come in handy next year.

I'd keep Ledo around myself but point taken -- definitely wouldn't mind cutting a few guys who have no future here and taking a look at these 3 players. Griffin in particular is very intriguing. Could be something better than Cleanthony Early moving forward. Imagine the wing defense we could put out there potentially next year with Griffin AND Thanasis. Both guys aren't bad offensively too, esp. Griffin. Griffin could be a combination of Robert Covington/Jerami Grant in the NBA. I'll take that...

Griffin is a guy you could potentially put next to Okafor for symmetry. Hes a jumping jack shot blocker who can also play in and out. This is what Im saying just take the best player and we can figure out the rest. WTF is Jason Smith going to do for us? The guy is 1-5 every other night Bargs--we gave him time--hes just not a fit here. Admundosn who looked the part has gone straight into the ground. Time to move on either produce or move on. Griffin can block shots in the NBA he could be a real find. Hes at a good age for a big.

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Id bring up Nate Wolters Willie Reed and Eric Griffin and release Ricky Ledo Bargnanai and Jason Smith. Ive seen enough. Lets take a look at some athletic frontcourt defenders who might come in handy next year.

I'd keep Ledo around myself but point taken -- definitely wouldn't mind cutting a few guys who have no future here and taking a look at these 3 players. Griffin in particular is very intriguing. Could be something better than Cleanthony Early moving forward. Imagine the wing defense we could put out there potentially next year with Griffin AND Thanasis. Both guys aren't bad offensively too, esp. Griffin. Griffin could be a combination of Robert Covington/Jerami Grant in the NBA. I'll take that...

Griffin is a guy you could potentially put next to Okafor for symmetry. Hes a jumping jack shot blocker who can also play in and out. This is what Im saying just take the best player and we can figure out the rest. WTF is Jason Smith going to do for us? The guy is 1-5 every other night Bargs--we gave him time--hes just not a fit here. Admundosn who looked the part has gone straight into the ground. Time to move on either produce or move on. Griffin can block shots in the NBA he could be a real find. Hes at a good age for a big.

24 points 11 rebounds 11 assists 2 steals 1 block 1 TO 12/19

RonRon wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Nate Wolters tonight

24 points 11 rebounds 11 assists 2 steals 1 block 1 TO 12/19

BIG GAME from *drafted at pick 44, that you would have drafted at 23* Mike Muscula when Atlanta rested all their Starters outside of Dennis Schroedder
He was drafted to be a stretch 5 but you have insisted that he is a PF and not a Center

Along with Nate Walters and Kelly Olynicks in the draft, you had these guys as the next BIG THING
He has a team option and I do not know if we can offer him a poison pill, next summer will be his 3rd year, if he is a RFA or not?
Briggs, wanted to know your thoughts on the cost/risk of what type of contract to possibly consider him at?
I think Ajinicia is my realistic, #1 UFA to add this off season and not Kanter, his ceiling mixed in with a TOP 3 pick,
Idealy Ajincia with Towns would be great pieces moving forward, if we can move CA and get back solid returns, I would love the idea of offering Draymond Green a MAX or near max deal for his leadership/defensive abilities/ and ability to mentor our young guys, add in talents like Danny Green/Wesley Matthewws/ and we could be contenders next year and great position moving forward...
I like Middleton as well but do not want to pay max to acquire him, though I would still offer a MAX to Kawaii Leonard day 1 of FA, putting SA in a spot to have only 3 days to acquire FA's if they match the deal, similar to what Dallas did with Parsons/Houston

The idea of having Ajincia/Towns or OK4, especially Towns for their versatility/youth/length/mobility and ability to cover much ground on DEFENSE, and spread the floor on OFF to allow penetration and score 1v1 in DEEP OR MID POST, is just too much potential for me to pass up
Their skill and abilities combined would allow us to play on many different philosophies and angles to attack on matchups and have a GREAT DEFENSIVE anchors, especially if we can get Draymond Green...
Think about Ajincia and Towns, Shved or Wroten, anyone that can penetrate/finish/facilitate would be GREAT, causing much mismatches....
With Whitside/Durant/Lebron, Pau Gasol/Lopez/Noah and the FA class of next year and we wouldn't need much picks moving forward if we are able to develop these guys to their potential
Then there is still Thanasis and his potential, especially if we can pair him up with other G/F's and defensive PG's, we could have a very versatile lineup with versatile talents, similar to the make up of the Bulls and Kobe/Lakers without Shaq...
I would rather have Ajinicia/TOwns than Embid/Noel, Blake/Jordan, Horford/Millsap as one of the TOP PF/C combo's moving forward, with Heat if they keep WHiteside/Bosh, Anthony Davis, Andre Drummond, if they can find another pair to match up with them, Noah and Gasol, ZBO/Gasol, Spurs?, will not have many good years together at their high level, and other talents include LA, Kevin Love, Houston that could have the best PF/C combos

Add in the possibility of moving CA and next years FA class, and we could change our entire culture, makeup of the team, and a strong foundation to build for this franchise for the next 10years +

possibly even adding in Millsap/Lopez/LA/Gasol this summer, or waiting next year when Whiteside/Durant/Lebron/Pau Gasol/Noah and many others will be FA's....

I think if we find 2 poison pills that are worthy on gambling on, could be a Asik/Lin or lower pill like Fields, it would really help construct our team if successfull as it does little to our ability to add FA's in the next 2 years, while the penalty is on the 3rd year..

I thought Nate could be a good player--that is for sure. But we had pick #24 that year and I did pick Muscala at the end. He hasnt got his chance but I think with the way the NBA is a stretch 4 at nearly 7 feet tall will still do well. These are late round picks and certainly I missed Gobert by a mile in this 1. But I still like the 3 guys I picked Mucala#1 Wolters #2 and Green #3. I think they can all still be better than Hardaway bJR. You did see what Muscala did in his last game right?

Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

RonRon wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Nate Wolters tonight

24 points 11 rebounds 11 assists 2 steals 1 block 1 TO 12/19

BIG GAME from *drafted at pick 44, that you would have drafted at 23* Mike Muscula when Atlanta rested all their Starters outside of Dennis Schroedder
He was drafted to be a stretch 5 but you have insisted that he is a PF and not a Center

Along with Nate Walters and Kelly Olynicks in the draft, you had these guys as the next BIG THING
He has a team option and I do not know if we can offer him a poison pill, next summer will be his 3rd year, if he is a RFA or not?
Briggs, wanted to know your thoughts on the cost/risk of what type of contract to possibly consider him at?
I think Ajinicia is my realistic, #1 UFA to add this off season and not Kanter, his ceiling mixed in with a TOP 3 pick,
Idealy Ajincia with Towns would be great pieces moving forward, if we can move CA and get back solid returns, I would love the idea of offering Draymond Green a MAX or near max deal for his leadership/defensive abilities/ and ability to mentor our young guys, add in talents like Danny Green/Wesley Matthewws/ and we could be contenders next year and great position moving forward...
I like Middleton as well but do not want to pay max to acquire him, though I would still offer a MAX to Kawaii Leonard day 1 of FA, putting SA in a spot to have only 3 days to acquire FA's if they match the deal, similar to what Dallas did with Parsons/Houston

The idea of having Ajincia/Towns or OK4, especially Towns for their versatility/youth/length/mobility and ability to cover much ground on DEFENSE, and spread the floor on OFF to allow penetration and score 1v1 in DEEP OR MID POST, is just too much potential for me to pass up
Their skill and abilities combined would allow us to play on many different philosophies and angles to attack on matchups and have a GREAT DEFENSIVE anchors, especially if we can get Draymond Green...
Think about Ajincia and Towns, Shved or Wroten, anyone that can penetrate/finish/facilitate would be GREAT, causing much mismatches....
With Whitside/Durant/Lebron, Pau Gasol/Lopez/Noah and the FA class of next year and we wouldn't need much picks moving forward if we are able to develop these guys to their potential
Then there is still Thanasis and his potential, especially if we can pair him up with other G/F's and defensive PG's, we could have a very versatile lineup with versatile talents, similar to the make up of the Bulls and Kobe/Lakers without Shaq...
I would rather have Ajinicia/TOwns than Embid/Noel, Blake/Jordan, Horford/Millsap as one of the TOP PF/C combo's moving forward, with Heat if they keep WHiteside/Bosh, Anthony Davis, Andre Drummond, if they can find another pair to match up with them, Noah and Gasol, ZBO/Gasol, Spurs?, will not have many good years together at their high level, and other talents include LA, Kevin Love, Houston that could have the best PF/C combos

Add in the possibility of moving CA and next years FA class, and we could change our entire culture, makeup of the team, and a strong foundation to build for this franchise for the next 10years +

possibly even adding in Millsap/Lopez/LA/Gasol this summer, or waiting next year when Whiteside/Durant/Lebron/Pau Gasol/Noah and many others will be FA's....

I think if we find 2 poison pills that are worthy on gambling on, could be a Asik/Lin or lower pill like Fields, it would really help construct our team if successfull as it does little to our ability to add FA's in the next 2 years, while the penalty is on the 3rd year..

I thought Nate could be a good player--that is for sure. But we had pick #24 that year and I did pick Muscala at the end. He hasnt got his chance but I think with the way the NBA is a stretch 4 at nearly 7 feet tall will still do well. These are late round picks and certainly I missed Gobert by a mile in this 1. But I still like the 3 guys I picked Mucala#1 Wolters #2 and Green #3. I think they can all still be better than Hardaway bJR. You did see what Muscala did in his last game right?

Let me ask you -- Mike Muscala or Myles Turner?

I really like Muscala and I think the NBA will catch on that. Hes very skilled and was a steal in rd 2. I had more information to make a pick on Muscala than Turner. Im not touching Turner where we pick right? Im sure 100% of fans right now would rather have Muscala than Hardaway.

Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

RonRon wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Nate Wolters tonight

24 points 11 rebounds 11 assists 2 steals 1 block 1 TO 12/19

BIG GAME from *drafted at pick 44, that you would have drafted at 23* Mike Muscula when Atlanta rested all their Starters outside of Dennis Schroedder
He was drafted to be a stretch 5 but you have insisted that he is a PF and not a Center

Along with Nate Walters and Kelly Olynicks in the draft, you had these guys as the next BIG THING
He has a team option and I do not know if we can offer him a poison pill, next summer will be his 3rd year, if he is a RFA or not?
Briggs, wanted to know your thoughts on the cost/risk of what type of contract to possibly consider him at?
I think Ajinicia is my realistic, #1 UFA to add this off season and not Kanter, his ceiling mixed in with a TOP 3 pick,
Idealy Ajincia with Towns would be great pieces moving forward, if we can move CA and get back solid returns, I would love the idea of offering Draymond Green a MAX or near max deal for his leadership/defensive abilities/ and ability to mentor our young guys, add in talents like Danny Green/Wesley Matthewws/ and we could be contenders next year and great position moving forward...
I like Middleton as well but do not want to pay max to acquire him, though I would still offer a MAX to Kawaii Leonard day 1 of FA, putting SA in a spot to have only 3 days to acquire FA's if they match the deal, similar to what Dallas did with Parsons/Houston

The idea of having Ajincia/Towns or OK4, especially Towns for their versatility/youth/length/mobility and ability to cover much ground on DEFENSE, and spread the floor on OFF to allow penetration and score 1v1 in DEEP OR MID POST, is just too much potential for me to pass up
Their skill and abilities combined would allow us to play on many different philosophies and angles to attack on matchups and have a GREAT DEFENSIVE anchors, especially if we can get Draymond Green...
Think about Ajincia and Towns, Shved or Wroten, anyone that can penetrate/finish/facilitate would be GREAT, causing much mismatches....
With Whitside/Durant/Lebron, Pau Gasol/Lopez/Noah and the FA class of next year and we wouldn't need much picks moving forward if we are able to develop these guys to their potential
Then there is still Thanasis and his potential, especially if we can pair him up with other G/F's and defensive PG's, we could have a very versatile lineup with versatile talents, similar to the make up of the Bulls and Kobe/Lakers without Shaq...
I would rather have Ajinicia/TOwns than Embid/Noel, Blake/Jordan, Horford/Millsap as one of the TOP PF/C combo's moving forward, with Heat if they keep WHiteside/Bosh, Anthony Davis, Andre Drummond, if they can find another pair to match up with them, Noah and Gasol, ZBO/Gasol, Spurs?, will not have many good years together at their high level, and other talents include LA, Kevin Love, Houston that could have the best PF/C combos

Add in the possibility of moving CA and next years FA class, and we could change our entire culture, makeup of the team, and a strong foundation to build for this franchise for the next 10years +

possibly even adding in Millsap/Lopez/LA/Gasol this summer, or waiting next year when Whiteside/Durant/Lebron/Pau Gasol/Noah and many others will be FA's....

I think if we find 2 poison pills that are worthy on gambling on, could be a Asik/Lin or lower pill like Fields, it would really help construct our team if successfull as it does little to our ability to add FA's in the next 2 years, while the penalty is on the 3rd year..

I thought Nate could be a good player--that is for sure. But we had pick #24 that year and I did pick Muscala at the end. He hasnt got his chance but I think with the way the NBA is a stretch 4 at nearly 7 feet tall will still do well. These are late round picks and certainly I missed Gobert by a mile in this 1. But I still like the 3 guys I picked Mucala#1 Wolters #2 and Green #3. I think they can all still be better than Hardaway bJR. You did see what Muscala did in his last game right?

Let me ask you -- Mike Muscala or Myles Turner?

I really like Muscala and I think the NBA will catch on that. Hes very skilled and was a steal in rd 2. I had more information to make a pick on Muscala than Turner. Im not touching Turner where we pick right? Im sure 100% of fans right now would rather have Muscala than Hardaway.

Yes, agree across the board. Yes there was a bigger body of work to go on with Muscala. Yes he was a steal in round 2 -- I like him a lot too. And yes, no way I pick Turner with our pick--I just feel he'll be a good pick for someone later in round 1, however low he may slip.. Agree also that Muscala would've been a much better pick than THJ. What THJ turned out to be so far--we could found a better big guard in the D-League or playing in Europe. A guy like Muscala doesn't grow on trees. That's the difference. With that pick I wanted PG Isaiah Canaan and Muscala would've been a better pick than Canaan as well.. Just wanted to get your thoughts on the Muscala/Turner comparison. Similar size and skill-sets with similar freshman years in college production-wise. You can also argue that Turner played against better competition. Turner didn't play like a top prodigy like Okafor or Towns this year; his play was more indicative of what you'd expect from a college freshman. I think Turner has an NBA future -- we just might have to wait a few years to see how good he will be.

Turner is going to be a developmental guy--hes going to take multi years. He does have things the NBA likes. He is a pure stretch 5--not many of them with the rim protection/rebounding included.

BRIGGS wrote:Its a shame Nate Wolters wasnt given a 7-8 game chance by the Knicks. I think you look at our position and say exactly what is the downside--are we not letting someone play who should? I dont think so. My bet is the fans would really love Wolters game. Look s,ike his mid range game is absolute pure money right now

and hes giving you the rebounding and assists in VERY high numbers at 6-5? This was a player on pace last year to be 1st team rookie of the year type.

in 1500 minutes his advanced stats are brutal. The eye test may see something intangible but the stats I am sure are hurting him.

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Its a shame Nate Wolters wasnt given a 7-8 game chance by the Knicks. I think you look at our position and say exactly what is the downside--are we not letting someone play who should? I dont think so. My bet is the fans would really love Wolters game. Look s,ike his mid range game is absolute pure money right now

and hes giving you the rebounding and assists in VERY high numbers at 6-5? This was a player on pace last year to be 1st team rookie of the year type.

With 4 players out the TWolves got permission from the nba to add a 16 th player to their roster. It seems like this would be something the Knicks could do. Melo, Jose, Shved, Tim are all out. It seems like a good way to Add Bate while keeping Ledo.

Good call. I wonder if we'd qualify for the same thing?

RonRon wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

RonRon wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Nate Wolters tonight

24 points 11 rebounds 11 assists 2 steals 1 block 1 TO 12/19

BIG GAME from *drafted at pick 44, that you would have drafted at 23* Mike Muscula when Atlanta rested all their Starters outside of Dennis Schroedder
He was drafted to be a stretch 5 but you have insisted that he is a PF and not a Center

Along with Nate Walters and Kelly Olynicks in the draft, you had these guys as the next BIG THING
He has a team option and I do not know if we can offer him a poison pill, next summer will be his 3rd year, if he is a RFA or not?
Briggs, wanted to know your thoughts on the cost/risk of what type of contract to possibly consider him at?
I think Ajinicia is my realistic, #1 UFA to add this off season and not Kanter, his ceiling mixed in with a TOP 3 pick,
Idealy Ajincia with Towns would be great pieces moving forward, if we can move CA and get back solid returns, I would love the idea of offering Draymond Green a MAX or near max deal for his leadership/defensive abilities/ and ability to mentor our young guys, add in talents like Danny Green/Wesley Matthewws/ and we could be contenders next year and great position moving forward...
I like Middleton as well but do not want to pay max to acquire him, though I would still offer a MAX to Kawaii Leonard day 1 of FA, putting SA in a spot to have only 3 days to acquire FA's if they match the deal, similar to what Dallas did with Parsons/Houston

The idea of having Ajincia/Towns or OK4, especially Towns for their versatility/youth/length/mobility and ability to cover much ground on DEFENSE, and spread the floor on OFF to allow penetration and score 1v1 in DEEP OR MID POST, is just too much potential for me to pass up
Their skill and abilities combined would allow us to play on many different philosophies and angles to attack on matchups and have a GREAT DEFENSIVE anchors, especially if we can get Draymond Green...
Think about Ajincia and Towns, Shved or Wroten, anyone that can penetrate/finish/facilitate would be GREAT, causing much mismatches....
With Whitside/Durant/Lebron, Pau Gasol/Lopez/Noah and the FA class of next year and we wouldn't need much picks moving forward if we are able to develop these guys to their potential
Then there is still Thanasis and his potential, especially if we can pair him up with other G/F's and defensive PG's, we could have a very versatile lineup with versatile talents, similar to the make up of the Bulls and Kobe/Lakers without Shaq...
I would rather have Ajinicia/TOwns than Embid/Noel, Blake/Jordan, Horford/Millsap as one of the TOP PF/C combo's moving forward, with Heat if they keep WHiteside/Bosh, Anthony Davis, Andre Drummond, if they can find another pair to match up with them, Noah and Gasol, ZBO/Gasol, Spurs?, will not have many good years together at their high level, and other talents include LA, Kevin Love, Houston that could have the best PF/C combos

Add in the possibility of moving CA and next years FA class, and we could change our entire culture, makeup of the team, and a strong foundation to build for this franchise for the next 10years +

possibly even adding in Millsap/Lopez/LA/Gasol this summer, or waiting next year when Whiteside/Durant/Lebron/Pau Gasol/Noah and many others will be FA's....

I think if we find 2 poison pills that are worthy on gambling on, could be a Asik/Lin or lower pill like Fields, it would really help construct our team if successfull as it does little to our ability to add FA's in the next 2 years, while the penalty is on the 3rd year..

I thought Nate could be a good player--that is for sure. But we had pick #24 that year and I did pick Muscala at the end. He hasnt got his chance but I think with the way the NBA is a stretch 4 at nearly 7 feet tall will still do well. These are late round picks and certainly I missed Gobert by a mile in this 1. But I still like the 3 guys I picked Mucala#1 Wolters #2 and Green #3. I think they can all still be better than Hardaway bJR. You did see what Muscala did in his last game right?

Let me ask you -- Mike Muscala or Myles Turner?

I really like Muscala and I think the NBA will catch on that. Hes very skilled and was a steal in rd 2. I had more information to make a pick on Muscala than Turner. Im not touching Turner where we pick right? Im sure 100% of fans right now would rather have Muscala than Hardaway.

I know, I was killed by him on draftkings that day he exploded...
I am not trying to knock you in anyway in this post Briggs and I have always said that I give you 100% props for stating your anaysis without seeing the results, unlike some trolls here

There are things that I may disagree with you on but I certainly respect you giving your 2 cents
For instance, there is no way CA could play SG, not at this point of his career, when he was still young there was a possiblity of it....

Anyway back to the topic, my question to you is if we can offer Mike Muscula a contract this summer, what type of contract would you value him and think we can steal him at for risk/reward?
If the Knicks can find 2 worthy poison pills, it doesn't affect our salary in the first 2years, so it would be a very reasonable price to pay to acquire talent while using the cap space on other positions
Especially if we can continue development on low scales of

Thanasis
Orlando Sanchez

Galloway
Shved *if we can keep him at a lower salary than his qualifying offer, even a multiyear deal, in the price range of about 2.5m - 3.3m

And other D League prospects or undrafted players in previous drafts or this upcoming draft
I value a couple of players on the Sixers and would give up a future 1st rounder and our *younger guys like Tim Hardaway JR/Early/Acey/Larkin* for a combination of some of thier rookie scaled contracts for continued development players like

Covington
Tony Wroten/Cannon/Ish Smith

Thomas PF
Some of their BIGS and F's and G/F's including their Euro Stashes
Hollis Thompson/Luc Muoubote

I viewed Muscala as our Tiago Splitter--in fact I said that a few times before the draft. He has more ability to play outside but I think Atlanta will be holding his rights and he will be their player for quite some time. Hes played well in limited minutes but you like the chances of a 6-11 250 pound skill guy to succeed once he shows the goods. Someone from the Knicks mustve loved Hardaway but the logic for me taking Muscala for the Knicks was easy. My bet is the team would rather have Muscala but yet again we failed the draft process.

BigDaddyG wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Its a shame Nate Wolters wasnt given a 7-8 game chance by the Knicks. I think you look at our position and say exactly what is the downside--are we not letting someone play who should? I dont think so. My bet is the fans would really love Wolters game. Look s,ike his mid range game is absolute pure money right now

and hes giving you the rebounding and assists in VERY high numbers at 6-5? This was a player on pace last year to be 1st team rookie of the year type.

in 1500 minutes his advanced stats are brutal. The eye test may see something intangible but the stats I am sure are hurting him.

Check out his first season and you'll see that he improved each month. He was forced to play early on and he was overwhelmed, but his play appeared to have stabilized as the season went on. He was brutal this season, but I think that had a lot to do with with Milwaukee's logjam at PG. I don't want to make too many excuses for Wolters, but I agree with Briggs. I'd rather give him an opportunity than Ledo.

I would like to see him over Ledo as well but thats not saying much.

Wolters only good month was March. So, which is the anomaly? He shot 55% from 3 that month. That is obviously not what he can really shoot from 3.