TPercy wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

TPercy wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I really don't like this idea of drafting based on how a player would fit in the triangle. This more than likely will be the highest pick the Knicks have had in decades, maybe the best pick we will see for a long time.

There is a good chance if the pick pans out, he will be here long after the triangle has been put back on the shelf. I don't want to pass up on someone like Russell just because he isn't a perfect fit for the triangle, or any other player for that matter.

everyone in the top 3 can really benefit us in the triangle.

To what degree remains to be seen.

It is not just about the Triangle,
it is also about who can fit well with Melo as well so that it dosen't mutaully hinder thier abilities. Hypothetically speaking, you can say that Okafor is the best player in the draft; However, how could he do well playing next to someone who has a really close game to his. It is not like he can shoot(that could change)or play defense, so without getting his touches in the post he is useless.
Different situation with Russell. Russell shoots 3s, is a floor general, and has great vision and elite passing ability;therefore, that would compliment Melo since he can have someone who can command the plays and if his one on one dosen't work he has a 2nd option to kick out too(if he feels like it).

Some would argue you don't draft to fit next to Melo....And like Gus said, should we miss out on talent, just because they don't fit with Melo's game? I think it's a fair question. But Melo will be on the knicks for the next 4 years. And I believe rookie contracts are the same or less. Plus, Melo signed a no trade clause contract, so he's not going anywhere.

Melo also flourishes when he can rome and pick his spots on offense to operate either in the post or from the outside. So you don't want to draft or add a starter to your team that takes up the same space on the floor (aka Amari). With Towns or Russell, you won't have that problem. Both players will compliment Melo's game. Towns doesn't have to live in the paint to be effective. He's an active big man, that moves around, seeking offensive rebounds. Or he can go into the post, when needed.

blkexec wrote:

TPercy wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

TPercy wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I really don't like this idea of drafting based on how a player would fit in the triangle. This more than likely will be the highest pick the Knicks have had in decades, maybe the best pick we will see for a long time.

There is a good chance if the pick pans out, he will be here long after the triangle has been put back on the shelf. I don't want to pass up on someone like Russell just because he isn't a perfect fit for the triangle, or any other player for that matter.

everyone in the top 3 can really benefit us in the triangle.

To what degree remains to be seen.

It is not just about the Triangle,
it is also about who can fit well with Melo as well so that it dosen't mutaully hinder thier abilities. Hypothetically speaking, you can say that Okafor is the best player in the draft; However, how could he do well playing next to someone who has a really close game to his. It is not like he can shoot(that could change)or play defense, so without getting his touches in the post he is useless.
Different situation with Russell. Russell shoots 3s, is a floor general, and has great vision and elite passing ability;therefore, that would compliment Melo since he can have someone who can command the plays and if his one on one dosen't work he has a 2nd option to kick out too(if he feels like it).

Some would argue you don't draft to fit next to Melo....And like Gus said, should we miss out on talent, just because they don't fit with Melo's game? I think it's a fair question. But Melo will be on the knicks for the next 4 years. And I believe rookie contracts are the same or less. Plus, Melo signed a no trade clause contract, so he's not going anywhere.

Melo also flourishes when he can rome and pick his spots on offense to operate either in the post or from the outside. So you don't want to draft or add a starter to your team that takes up the same space on the floor (aka Amari). With Towns or Russell, you won't have that problem. Both players will compliment Melo's game. Towns doesn't have to live in the paint to be effective. He's an active big man, that moves around, seeking offensive rebounds. Or he can go into the post, when needed.

yup. This is a time where by next season Phil really and I mean REALLY needs to get inside Melo's head to want to play team basketball.

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

blkexec wrote:

TPercy wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

TPercy wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I really don't like this idea of drafting based on how a player would fit in the triangle. This more than likely will be the highest pick the Knicks have had in decades, maybe the best pick we will see for a long time.

There is a good chance if the pick pans out, he will be here long after the triangle has been put back on the shelf. I don't want to pass up on someone like Russell just because he isn't a perfect fit for the triangle, or any other player for that matter.

everyone in the top 3 can really benefit us in the triangle.

To what degree remains to be seen.

It is not just about the Triangle,
it is also about who can fit well with Melo as well so that it dosen't mutaully hinder thier abilities. Hypothetically speaking, you can say that Okafor is the best player in the draft; However, how could he do well playing next to someone who has a really close game to his. It is not like he can shoot(that could change)or play defense, so without getting his touches in the post he is useless.
Different situation with Russell. Russell shoots 3s, is a floor general, and has great vision and elite passing ability;therefore, that would compliment Melo since he can have someone who can command the plays and if his one on one dosen't work he has a 2nd option to kick out too(if he feels like it).

Some would argue you don't draft to fit next to Melo....And like Gus said, should we miss out on talent, just because they don't fit with Melo's game? I think it's a fair question. But Melo will be on the knicks for the next 4 years. And I believe rookie contracts are the same or less. Plus, Melo signed a no trade clause contract, so he's not going anywhere.

Melo also flourishes when he can rome and pick his spots on offense to operate either in the post or from the outside. So you don't want to draft or add a starter to your team that takes up the same space on the floor (aka Amari). With Towns or Russell, you won't have that problem. Both players will compliment Melo's game. Towns doesn't have to live in the paint to be effective. He's an active big man, that moves around, seeking offensive rebounds. Or he can go into the post, when needed.

This is the worst team in basketball. Not just this year but like ESPN just wrote this is the worst run franchise in all of sports over the last 15 years.

There is only 1 option for this team. We act like other successful NBA teams and pi k the BPA at the draft spot we get. We need so much help that its overwhelming. We need to start with one nice young piece. Add another than another etc.. there is no short cut no circumvention that only the Knicks ate privvy to or can achieve. You DO NOT make a pick based on Carmelo or position.You simply take the best playet

So who determines who the "best player available" is? Not sure it's an exact science, and since there is a difference of opinion amongst the so called experts, who is to say that the player eventually picked by the Knicks is not the BPA on their draft board?

Well the Knicks has cleanthony early on their board at 15 so you might be right there. The Knicks are terrible talent evaluators going way back

Phil has proven he is completely unqualified for this job. And Fish is clueless. And Dolan is the boss. Do the math. Stop bullchitting yourselves.

Watching Tyson play in Dallas tells you all you ever need to know about asset management. And that is coming from someone who was pizzed at Tyson for sandbagging the team. But I adjust. I realize the truth. Tyson is a winner. He was playing for aholes. He lashed out at the douches he was surrounded by. He got out.

And we got Calderon for him. This was a completely botched job of asset management and this remains a mismanaged franchise and Phil is not going to learn quickly enough to salvage his reputation. He'll get his pick. He has his pocket money. But he doesn't know his azz from his elbow when it comes to building a franchise.

Dagger wrote:

Splat wrote:Just to be perfectly clear, this is a profoundly stupid organization. It is the worst team in the NBA as a result. So talking about reasonable behavior in regards to these azzholes is completely unreasonable. Phil is a flunkie whore who sold his soul to Dolan. If you don't realize this by now, then you are truly lost in some kind of fantasy basketball realm that has no correlation to reality.

Phil has proven he is completely unqualified for this job. And Fish is clueless. And Dolan is the boss. Do the math. Stop bullchitting yourselves.

Watching Tyson play in Dallas tells you all you ever need to know about asset management. And that is coming from someone who was pizzed at Tyson for sandbagging the team. But I adjust. I realize the truth. Tyson is a winner. He was playing for aholes. He got out. And we got Calderon for him. This is a completely botched job and mismanaged franchise and Phil is not going to learn quickly enough to salvage his reputation. He'll get his pick. He has his pocket money. But he doesn't know his azz from his elbow when it comes to building a franchise.

Why don't you wait until the draft and free agency and then re-assess the situation instead of throwing a tantrum? Do you think you're better than the Knicks instant gratification mindset of the last 15 years with that statement? You want to push Phil to the curb before he's even had his trial by fire, just like management has destroyed the team for the last decade every time Jimmy Dol cries out "this isn't working!!!!" and pines for a new toy. The best way to evaluate Phil as a GM/President is to let him have his big moment and see if the bird can fly. Until then, all this talk of him being a failure is premature and worthless.

No tantrums were thrown. We are clearly the worst team in the NBA. We clearly have the least talent on our roster in the whole NBA.

Why would I need to throw a tantrum to prove what is completely obvious?

Why would I need to throw a tantrum to prove the Tyson trade was an abomination of asset management?

Why would I need to throw a tantrum to prove Phil Jackson clearly is not a competent GM thus far?

Before you try to throw shade and call someone hysterical, get your ducks in a row. This organization is pathetic. The onus is on those who would state otherwise, not those who state the basic reality of its current suckiness.

Phil has presented plenty to evaluate him upon. It's called Year 1. In Year 1, Phil is a steaming failure. So if you can't defend his year 1 report card, then spare us the silly personal attacks on those who pee on your glowing hopes for the future.

Obviously I think Phil deserves his chance at the big show before people tear him apart, but apparently you have lost all your patience. I take no issue with you stating that the franchise sucks or any of the other things you post until you start labeling those who disagree with your views as delusional.

The Hawks added Millsap, Carroll and Schroder in one off season. Korver they added the year before. That constitutes 4 of the top 6 players in their Rotation. None of those players were unattainable players. Phil has expressed a desire to do something similar in revamping the Knicks. No amount of BULL ISH theories can refute that fact. It's not impossible to revamp a roster in a short span of time. Given the resources that we do actually have this summer, there's nothing stopping Phil from being able to make a significant improvement in this roster. There are no guarantees, but that doesn't mean that the odds are against him being successful. This summer will be the start of the process and not the end.

Phil is his own man and is doing what he honestly thinks will help the franchise. None of his moves have doomed the franchise and he still has his best hand to play this summer. Only time will tell how things will work out but so far unless the Knicks miraculously won every single game to close the season they will be at the top of the lottery with a 1-4 pick. People can piss on the Knicks having a pick but it is in fact a major opportunity to improve the team for years to come. They still have to make the right choice but it is all there for them to draft a major piece.

Phil has setup this franchise with a clear direction. Everyone doesn't have to like it but unlike in the past there's one clear vision for the franchise from top to bottom. He and his staff have been doing what they can to lay a foundation. Starting next season we'll see more of the work they've been doing start to show. This season was not in vain. Some of these players will be back and already immersed in this culture. Kids like Thanasis will come up more ready to contribute. We may see Labeyrie come to SL. Galloway and Shved will likely be part of the rotation going forward. We still have other young players that we're developing. You would think that Knick fans would appreciate the Knicks actually trying to develop young prospects as successful franchises like the Spurs do.

In Free Agency Phil can bring in the starting talent that we need to compete. I think it's easy to complain about how Plan A didn't work out but Plan B is actually moving along pretty well and with the draft and free agency that should push this rebuild forward in a big way. There are no guarantees. There doesn't have to be a guarantee for this to be a very important summer.

Phil Jackson: "The way the Spurs played in the Finals was a beautiful demonstration of team basketball. That's how the game should be played."

"Establishing how you want to play basketball is important," Jackson said last week. "There are only a few teams that you can see in this league that say, 'OK, this is our definitive way we play.' We want to be one of those teams."

“You do need great players to win the championship, but having to always chase the best talent in free agency eventually becomes a mind-set of, well, the best talent wins as opposed to who plays the best team basketball — which is what San Antonio showed last season,” Jackson said. “Their play was special, a team that really values passing, a system where they’re not just standing around, spacing out shooters. That’s also what Atlanta and a couple of other teams are showing this year.’’

“We’re not going to punch all the right buttons in the process of doing this,’’ Jackson said. “But we’re looking for multiple talents, drive, intelligence, guys that will play defense. We hope to develop a team, and there are a lot of agents out there looking to find a good spot for their players.”

Splat wrote:

Dagger wrote:I wasn't throwing shade, you frequently use hyperbole in your posts writing things like "suck-up azzhole" or "flunkie whore" and it comes off as whining to me, which is what I would call a tantrum. Calling everyone who disagrees with your exasperation a "clueless" or an "ostrich" (wtf does that even mean) is a personal attack on the other hand.

I clearly state my theses. And I add in flourishes.

Example: Phil capitulated to Dolan is the theses. The flourish is to call him a flunkie whore.

Why not just say he capitulated? Because it fukking offends me to no end to see a pompous azz like Jackson flaunt his hardware to the public so ostentatiously as if he is some kind of stud kingpin when he revealed himself to be just another money hungry sucker so common in American culture circa 2015.

Phil has no autonomy. It is a completely fraudulent con game. You take offense at people who call a con for what it is, but you've been duped. Phil has no juice. He's a whore. Don't you know what a whore is?

Don't come at me and call me histrionic when I'm the realist here. I know a sell-out when I see one. Phil sold his soul to Dolan. Deal with it or not, but don't think I'm just being dramatic. I'm cutting through the haze of delusion.

I'm not offended by you insulting Jackson, I could care less, I'm recommending patience as the course of action simply because FA/the draft will be the big test for Jackson that will make or break his tenure here. That said, I think your coarse language when describing the team detracts from your points instead of adding to them.

It seems you think everyone that isn't constantly bemoaning the state of the franchise is being "duped". I'm well aware the team sucks, I'm well aware we are 90% of a roster away from being a good team, and I'm well aware the team has sucked for 15 years, no one on this board needs to be reminded of that. But we simply don't know what we have until this summer passes and we have an idea what we're working with, until then our grasp of the team's future is shaky at best. So why not wait and see and save yourself the trouble of looking foolish if things actually do turn out differently than you seem certain they will?

If I've proven one thing, I'll eat crow all day long if I see I'm wrong. I have no skin in the game when it comes to being right.

To ascribe arrogrance to my POV is wrong, because I'll gladly chuck my pessimism into the celebration bonfire if the draft pick turns into the next Jordan.

I truly don't fricken care if I'm right. The only problem is I'm right up to now and if people want to haze me for that then they can check the record and forget about me, because this club is a disgrace and I have nothing to do with it.

I'm not the one making grandiose predictions. I look at the past to predict the future. That's what historians do.

Fantasy sports jocks and politicians and PR plebes love to extrapolate on their ideal situations to predict that future.

Therein lies the split on this board and among sports fans of all sports in general.

Some people live in the present which is based on the past.

The others resent being hemmed in by such sordidness and think it is hateful to not expect only the best going forward.

I love rainbows. I look for them on vacations in Hawaii, just not in silly projections about a failed franchise behaving differently than it has in the past.