helloharv wrote:can someone tell me why most people think OK4 can't become a better rim protector but yet Towns will somehow turn into a great offensive force?

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We need to find guys who can play the game at a faster pace. I think that Schveyd with the right running mate can go in that direction--but the offense needs much more pace as a foundation starting next year--we need faster players. If I see Calderon near a ball with a Knick logo on it

What difference would it make if your instructed to set up the triangle. How many times have we seen players jet down the court ahead of everyone only to pull back and set up a play. Larkin is the fastest guy in the NBA, and what about the 100's of times we seen shump do that. when your trying to establish a system as difficult as the triangle, you get players thinking too much.

Phil's Bulls and laker teams picked their spots when to run very effectively. It behooves the team to have some guys who are athletic and can run after great defensive stops and turnovers. We will be extremely slow total halfcourt team with ok4 and Melo. If they don't plug in a center who can shoot they will have spacing issues. Similar problems Melo/Amare/TYSON had.

Towns runs well and can space the floor

blkexec wrote:There are a lot of guards in the draft that push the ball....We just need to find a way to get another pick.

With our over load of SG's, now that we have Ledo, we can afford to trade someone for a pick.

Draft OK4 and trade him for the #2 pick and a second round pick.

I don't know, you guys are better at this make believe trade stuff than me, but with another pick, you can add a fast guard. Still got some fast vets like the PG that used to be in Orlando.

That is one problem with a Svhed/Galloway backcourt. We will be relegated to being a half court offense unless we wind up with Russell/Mudiay/Lin

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:You play slower if you draft Ok4. Halfcourt ball. Back to the Ewing/Melo days

No way--Id put Jahi at 5 --did you see him in the MCd game up and down? Did you know that Karl Towns in an up and won game with the top guys had 6 points and 2 rebounds while Jahill had 17-7?

Got you on this Briggs...I can't pull up past threads as good as you guys. But you clearly said OK4 is a PF at the next level. Thats the delima I have. If he's a PF, then you need a shot blocking center. If he's a center, then we have nobody to protect the rim. Our only defense will be OK4's offense. Whoever scores the most wins!

OK# isnt a turnstyle... he gets a lot of blocks, boxes out every play and does clog the middle. His role limits his ability to attack. Duke simply cant afford to have him on the bench.

There is such a thing as being too aggressive:
Towns PFs per 36mins: 5.2
OK4 PFs per 36minus: 2.4

So just for the record Town's standout skill right now is his defense and he's racking up over 5 personals per 36 minutes. Not ALL his #s look good stretched out.

Maybe I watched a bad game of OK4....But I said the same thing to a die hard Duke fan recently, and they agreed with me. Now it could be because they can't afford to have him get into foul trouble. But just like we can't see his defensive potential, is the same as not seeing Towns offensive potential. Hey, I hope OK4 is better at defense than I thought. I know at 6'10 and 270 plus pounds, he's not jumping out of the gym. And when you go up against 7'0 centers with hook shots, there's nothing OK4 can do, especially with a low vertical. But on the floor, using his body and long arms, yes...those are nice gifts to have. A taller Zach or Al Jefferson, with potential to get better.

On the flip side, Kentucky has like 4 seven footers.....A very deep team. That means whenever you are on the floor, you can go 100 miles an hour, because you have players on the bench. So the same argument could be made with Towns and why his fouls per 36 mins is so high. He can afford to go hard on both ends. OK4 can't.

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:You play slower if you draft Ok4. Halfcourt ball. Back to the Ewing/Melo days

No way--Id put Jahi at 5 --did you see him in the MCd game up and down? Did you know that Karl Towns in an up and won game with the top guys had 6 points and 2 rebounds while Jahill had 17-7?

Got you on this Briggs...I can't pull up past threads as good as you guys. But you clearly said OK4 is a PF at the next level. Thats the delima I have. If he's a PF, then you need a shot blocking center. If he's a center, then we have nobody to protect the rim. Our only defense will be OK4's offense. Whoever scores the most wins!

OK# isnt a turnstyle... he gets a lot of blocks, boxes out every play and does clog the middle. His role limits his ability to attack. Duke simply cant afford to have him on the bench.

There is such a thing as being too aggressive:
Towns PFs per 36mins: 5.2
OK4 PFs per 36minus: 2.4

So just for the record Town's standout skill right now is his defense and he's racking up over 5 personals per 36 minutes. Not ALL his #s look good stretched out.

Fair enough but he is only 19. He will learn to pick his spots in the pros. Different system, different roster and circumstances. What I like is he is not afraid to get after it defensively. Most 19yr old AAU guys are more concerned with offense and highlights. No defensive fundamentals. They need years to figure out NBA defense and staying out of foul trouble. At least we've seen Towns succeed in a defense oriented system already on the #1 team in the country

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:You play slower if you draft Ok4. Halfcourt ball. Back to the Ewing/Melo days

No way--Id put Jahi at 5 --did you see him in the MCd game up and down? Did you know that Karl Towns in an up and won game with the top guys had 6 points and 2 rebounds while Jahill had 17-7?

Got you on this Briggs...I can't pull up past threads as good as you guys. But you clearly said OK4 is a PF at the next level. Thats the delima I have. If he's a PF, then you need a shot blocking center. If he's a center, then we have nobody to protect the rim. Our only defense will be OK4's offense. Whoever scores the most wins!

OK# isnt a turnstyle... he gets a lot of blocks, boxes out every play and does clog the middle. His role limits his ability to attack. Duke simply cant afford to have him on the bench.

There is such a thing as being too aggressive:
Towns PFs per 36mins: 5.2
OK4 PFs per 36minus: 2.4

So just for the record Town's standout skill right now is his defense and he's racking up over 5 personals per 36 minutes. Not ALL his #s look good stretched out.

Maybe I watched a bad game of OK4....But I said the same thing to a die hard Duke fan recently, and they agreed with me. Now it could be because they can't afford to have him get into foul trouble. But just like we can't see his defensive potential, is the same as not seeing Towns offensive potential. Hey, I hope OK4 is better at defense than I thought. I know at 6'10 and 270 plus pounds, he's not jumping out of the gym. And when you go up against 7'0 centers with hook shots, there's nothing OK4 can do, especially with a low vertical. But on the floor, using his body and long arms, yes...those are nice gifts to have. A taller Zach or Al Jefferson, with potential to get better.

On the flip side, Kentucky has like 4 seven footers.....A very deep team. That means whenever you are on the floor, you can go 100 miles an hour, because you have players on the bench. So the same argument could be made with Towns and why his fouls per 36 mins is so high. He can afford to go hard on both ends. OK4 can't.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/marc-gasol

OK4 certainly has the physical tools... saying someone with his size and length cant be a good NBA defender at 19 years old defies logic. What puts him over Towns for me is I know (barring injury) he will be a good NBA player based on the parts of his game in CBB that translate to the pros

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Has coach K ever produced an all NBA defensive player for all the respect he gets? Seems more like a dantoni offensive fundamentals guru

Shane Battier and Grant Hill were not too bad.

That's why I asked for bigs not wings

gunsnewing wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We need to find guys who can play the game at a faster pace. I think that Schveyd with the right running mate can go in that direction--but the offense needs much more pace as a foundation starting next year--we need faster players. If I see Calderon near a ball with a Knick logo on it

What difference would it make if your instructed to set up the triangle. How many times have we seen players jet down the court ahead of everyone only to pull back and set up a play. Larkin is the fastest guy in the NBA, and what about the 100's of times we seen shump do that. when your trying to establish a system as difficult as the triangle, you get players thinking too much.

Phil's Bulls and laker teams picked their spots when to run very effectively. It behooves the team to have some guys who are athletic and can run after great defensive stops and turnovers. We will be extremely slow total halfcourt team with ok4 and Melo. If they don't plug in a center who can shoot they will have spacing issues. Similar problems Melo/Amare/TYSON had.

Towns runs well and can space the floor

I don't see anyone in the immediate or for seeable future that resembles MJ or Kobe. I was never sold on Phil being the best coach ever, not when you have arguably the 2 best wing players ever to play in the NBA. Im talking from a mental and physical stance.

When Phil was left with just kobe and a few solid role players, they got swept in the first round, and phil retired.

I already know fisher will either leave next season and use the family excuse just so he won't make phil look bad. With that being said, a PG is what we should be in the market for, because lets face it, it's a guards league, and if you don't have an elite one your not pushing the pace no matter who's on the court.

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Has coach K ever produced an all NBA defensive player for all the respect he gets? Seems more like a dantoni offensive fundamentals guru

Shane Battier and Grant Hill were not too bad.

That's why I asked for bigs not wings

This should get you excited.

Danny Ferry, Christian Laettner, Cherokee Parks, Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer and Shelden Williams — what do they have in common? Yes, they all played for Duke, and they all averaged at least 17.7 points and 7.4 rebounds in their final years in Durham. On average, this group posted 19.6 points and 9.0 boards in those years. Ferry, Laettner, Brand and Williams were named First Team All-Americans, while Boozer made the Third Team. Parks could have been an All-American as well had Mike Krzyzewski not missed most of of his senior season due to back surgery and exhaustion. Williams was the last “dominant” Duke big man, and he graduated in 2005-06.

LOL at Parks and Williams

We are assuming that Ok4 is different because he is much bigger.

Bigger is not always better though it can obviously be a plus.

Why do all these Duke big men and big numbers and they were mostly busts? Because they were shorter? Lots of tall busts too.

No guarantees on anybody ... its silly

Miles Plumlee

Carlos Booozer was actually a ROLE PLAYER and was a rebounder/defensive player that developed an OFFENSE GAME
Problem was he was always undersized and as he got older, he loss more physical abilities and lacked the size/length/athleticism to defend

Shelden Williams also quite undersized but career didn't last too long in the NBA

FOr Battier and Dunleavy, they both played anywhere from SG to Center in the NCAA to the PROS
Battier was used against stretch 4's when he was younger and could defend SG's and PF's at times as well too

Dunleavy is a very good high IQ player on OFF and DEFENSE, part of the reason why Chicago loss so many games in addition to their other injuries
They both knew how to defend multiple positions and get to the spots to draw charges, sometimes block shots/steals when they were younger
Despite losing a step, he is still a very good glue player and does a bit of everything on OFF and DEFENSE, especially good cuts, floor spacing, moving without the ball, passing, and playing solid defense

Grant Hill was pretty damn good when he returned back from his 7th injury/surgery and though Kobe hit many crazy shots on him, Grant Hill played GREAT DEFENSE on him

Chris Duhon/Dahntay Jones were pretty solid defenders once upon a time

then there was the mighty Christian Laetner

In general,
Coach K recruits HIGH IQ, versatile talents, while Kentucky has been known to recruit the freakish athletic physically talented NBA potential players
He produces solid shooters and guards

While Dunleavey/Battier played Center at times in Duke, it is just a different game in the NBA level