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crzymdups
Posts: 52018 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/1/2004 Member: #671 USA |
3/24/2015 1:31 PM
If the Knicks have a chance to draft Towns or Okafor - they have a franchise cornerstone for the next fifteen years. The problem is that Melo and Phil are thinking more about the next two or three years. Neither of them will be here in 2020. That's what worries me about this draft. (We, of course, know Dolan is an idiot to boot.)
People who talk about Phil worrying about his legacy... his legacy will be how well the team performs in the next three years of Melo's dwindling prime... not how the team is set for the year 2020 when he and Melo are walking down a beach in Playa Vista or whatever. You could make the argument that the Knicks will get better right away more quickly by using the draft pick well and augmenting with FA... which is what I hope Phil will do. But you can make the argument the other way, which terrifies me. Look at how the Cavs traded Wiggins for Kevin Love. That move looks terrible 9 months later. But Lebron didn't want to wait around on Wiggins, even though you could argue he'd be much better off having done so. I'm with Briggs - take Okafor if he's there. You can structure a high low post game with him and Melo that has been the backbone of many Triangle teams and easily add complementry pieces around those two. Maybe a year to figure it out and year two you can be highly competitive. Will Phil and Melo be patient? We can only hope. History has shown that Dolan and Melo are not patient (remember Melo was in favor of giving away Lin and also in favor of trading half the Knicks to get his extension instead of signing here as a FA) Fingers crossed. ¿ △ ?
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holfresh
Posts: 38679 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/14/2006 Member: #1081 |
3/24/2015 1:41 PM
BRIGGS wrote:If you are down 1 who would you rather have the last shot--Carmelo Anthony Jahill Okafor or Karl Towns. You are trying to compare college kids to professional basketball players..There are no comparison...Towns??? |
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/2/2004 Member: #581 USA |
3/24/2015 1:43 PM LAST EDITED: 3/24/2015 1:43 PM
holfresh wrote:BRIGGS wrote:If you are down 1 who would you rather have the last shot--Carmelo Anthony Jahill Okafor or Karl Towns. Yeah, I was just playing along in my previous comment. This whole thread is ridiculous. Okafor has rarely (if ever?) gone up against someone even at the level of Cole Aldrich. |
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mreinman
Posts: 37827 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/14/2010 Member: #3189 |
3/24/2015 1:44 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:BRIGGS wrote:If you are down 1 who would you rather have the last shot--Carmelo Anthony Jahill Okafor or Karl Towns. +19999 so here is what phil is thinking ....
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Finestrg
Posts: 27296 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/1/2006 Member: #1069 |
3/24/2015 1:45 PM
What if Towns was on Duke and the centerpiece instead of Okafor? Good question...Well it's all speculatory/hypothetical but I don't think they'd be that much worse off if at all, to be honest with you. You can make a case that they might even be better...Let's try to stick with "usage" to compare (Briggs, you're a big usage guy, right? You seem to agree with me on Enes Kanter and that dude's much better production for OKC comes down to nothing more than an expanded role, just like I thought it would) -- say Towns was on Duke and was afforded the same opportunities (Okafor's playing a full 10 mins more a game and with those 10 mins+/game, he's grabbing more rebounds, taking approx. 5 more shots/game to go along with 2 more FT per contest...and Towns is an 82% FT shooter mind you; Okafor isn't even close at just 51%). Right there closes the gap considerably in terms of forecasting Towns' output and production with a larger role on Duke. A couple of other assumptions: (1) Okafor is a better offensive player at this point, granted -- but if Towns was on a team like Duke and made the focal point from day 1 like Okafor, how much further along would he be right now offensively (and Towns has made nice progress btw -- his hook with either hand is dominate and NBA-ready imo)? If you don't wanna say 'a lot further' OK, gimmie 'further' and we'll call it a day. Assumption #2: For the few ppg that Towns may fall short (because that's all we're talking about here really -- there's a good chance Towns, given the mins, would surpass Okafor's production in just about every other category -- Towns probably would grab more rebounds, would more than double Okafor's shot blocks, would convert more FTs..), guys like Winslow, Cook, Jones, etc. would more than make up the slack, all taking another shots or 2 apiece to offset any difference. Assumption #3 (more of a personal opinion of mine on Towns' future as a pro) -- I think he's gonna be a much better pro than what we're seeing right now. Okafor, in terms of production, may not be.. Again, it's all sheer speculation but I think you can just as easiliy present the other side and say Towns would be in the same neighborhood with Okafor in terms of individual production as well as helping that Duke team be one of the best in the nation. You presented one side -- this other side is equally plausible imo.
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BRIGGS
Posts: 53275 Alba Posts: 7 Joined: 7/30/2002 Member: #303 |
3/24/2015 1:46 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:BRIGGS wrote:If you are down 1 who would you rather have the last shot--Carmelo Anthony Jahill Okafor or Karl Towns.
RIP Crushalot😞
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helloharv
Posts: 20457 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 3/22/2012 Member: #4139 |
3/24/2015 1:48 PM
I honestly don't know how anyone could say Towns is better than OK4 at this very moment. Now some may want to project in the future but who knows, I want the guy that is proven to be much better now and that is OK4 and I see no reason why he also can't keep improving and project into an All-Star
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holfresh
Posts: 38679 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/14/2006 Member: #1081 |
3/24/2015 1:48 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:BRIGGS wrote:If you are down 1 who would you rather have the last shot--Carmelo Anthony Jahill Okafor or Karl Towns. What's even more ridiculous is that we get sucked into responding to these threads... |
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BRIGGS
Posts: 53275 Alba Posts: 7 Joined: 7/30/2002 Member: #303 |
3/24/2015 1:49 PM
Finestrg wrote:What if Towns was on Duke and the centerpiece instead of Okafor? Good question...Well it's all speculatory/hypothetical but I don't think they'd be that much worse off if at all, to be honest with you. You can make a case that they might even be better...Let's try to stick with "usage" to compare (Briggs, you're a big usage guy, right? You seem to agree with me on Enes Kanter and that dude's much better production for OKC comes down to nothing more than an expanded role, just like I thought it would) -- say Towns was on Duke and was afforded the same opportunities (Okafor's playing a full 10 mins more a game and with those 10 mins+/game, he's grabbing more rebounds, taking approx. 5 more shots/game to go along with 2 more FT per contest...and Towns is an 82% FT shooter mind you; Okafor isn't even close at just 51%). Right there closes the gap considerably in terms of forecasting Towns' output and production with a larger role on Duke. A couple of other assumptions: (1) Okafor is a better offensive player at this point, granted -- but if Towns was on a team like Duke and made the focal point from day 1 like Okafor, how much further along would he be right now offensively (and Towns has made nice progress btw -- his hook with either hand is dominate and NBA-ready imo)? If you don't wanna say 'a lot further' OK, gimmie 'further' and we'll call it a day. Assumption #2: For the few ppg that Towns may fall short (because that's all we're talking about here really -- there's a good chance Towns, given the mins, would surpass Okafor's production in just about every other category -- Towns probably would grab more rebounds, would more than double Okafor's shot blocks, would convert more FTs..), guys like Winslow, Cook, Jones, etc. would more than make up the slack, all taking another shots or 2 apiece to offset any difference. Assumption #3 (more of a personal opinion of mine on Towns' future as a pro) -- I think he's gonna be a much better pro than what we're seeing right now. Okafor, in terms of production, may not be.. Again, it's all sheer speculation but I think you can just as easiliy present the other side and say Towns would be in the same neighborhood with Okafor in terms of individual production as well as helping that Duke team be one of the best in the nation. You presented one side -- this other side is equally plausible imo. Absolutely--there is no doubt that Towns is guy who could be scoring much more if given the right opportunity--everything you said is true in your post. Ive said the same thing. Ive just become convinced in the last few games that Okafor is the safer bet. I kind of went over to KAT for a week--but I saw the light--and NOTHINg to diminish on Towns. RIP Crushalot😞
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BRIGGS
Posts: 53275 Alba Posts: 7 Joined: 7/30/2002 Member: #303 |
3/24/2015 1:51 PM
holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:BRIGGS wrote:If you are down 1 who would you rather have the last shot--Carmelo Anthony Jahill Okafor or Karl Towns. Your best bet is to stay in the threads that argue how Melo is better than LBJ threads. These threads are to inferior for your basketball mind:) RIP Crushalot😞
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gunsnewing
Posts: 55076 Alba Posts: 5 Joined: 2/24/2002 Member: #215 USA |
3/24/2015 1:53 PM
If knicks are picking #1 OK4 will not be the #1 pick
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holfresh
Posts: 38679 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/14/2006 Member: #1081 |
3/24/2015 1:56 PM
BRIGGS wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:BRIGGS wrote:If you are down 1 who would you rather have the last shot--Carmelo Anthony Jahill Okafor or Karl Towns. No offense, but you are asking if a college kid is a better option than the guy who won the scoring title in the NBA.. |
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Finestrg
Posts: 27296 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/1/2006 Member: #1069 |
3/24/2015 1:57 PM LAST EDITED: 3/24/2015 2:09 PM
Having said that, I would be very thankful if we got Jahlil Okafor, believe me. I could make either situation work -- I would make a concerted effort to improve rebounding and defense around him, that's all, and I think we could do that rather inexpensively -- grab an able rim protector or two on the cheap like a Jeff Withey (RFA), Jordan Bachynski, retain Cole Aldrich, sign Khem Birch, look at a guy like Octavius Ellis in the 2nd round for cash if he comes out, etc..; grab a guy like Lavoy Allen on the cheap who can help out on the boards if given the mins (provided he's healthy).. Or we go the other way and throw a lot of money at the problem -- DeAndre Jordan wouldn't come cheap but he makes a hell of a lot more sense if we took Okafor instead of Towns...With Okafor in tow, Jordan may then all of a sudden become FA target #1 or #2. We'd be blessed with either guy man, Towns or Okafor.
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mreinman
Posts: 37827 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/14/2010 Member: #3189 |
3/24/2015 1:57 PM
holfresh wrote:BRIGGS wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:BRIGGS wrote:If you are down 1 who would you rather have the last shot--Carmelo Anthony Jahill Okafor or Karl Towns. scoring title is a bad argument ... 3rd in MVP maybe a bit better but not great. so here is what phil is thinking ....
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WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 6/28/2014 Member: #5843 |
3/24/2015 2:00 PM
BRIGGS wrote:blkexec wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:I just want the best player available for this team. Seems like a number of players are rated highly, and you still hear "experts" and others debating about who will be the best player coming out of this draft. For what it is worth- I think OK4 paces himself a little more than Towns does, because he knows he has to play the entire game, potentially. He seems to use less energy on D from what I've observed, but I have not seen the good defensive instincts I would want from a big man. Towns knows he is only getting 20-25 minutes, and he can play harder. Having Stein to back him up is quite a help, too, but I haven't seen Towns back away from guys going to the hoop, and I have seen OK4 being indifferent to attacking opponents. I think the Knicks scouts who've checked out the Kentucky practices have a good idea of what Towns might be able to do for a team, or at least this is what I expect from them if they really have spent all that time at the KU practices. I would be happy with either guy- nice "problem" to have if we do get the #1 pick- but there are differences between them, and the differences will have to be considered. EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
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Finestrg
Posts: 27296 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/1/2006 Member: #1069 |
3/24/2015 2:00 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Finestrg wrote:What if Towns was on Duke and the centerpiece instead of Okafor? Good question...Well it's all speculatory/hypothetical but I don't think they'd be that much worse off if at all, to be honest with you. You can make a case that they might even be better...Let's try to stick with "usage" to compare (Briggs, you're a big usage guy, right? You seem to agree with me on Enes Kanter and that dude's much better production for OKC comes down to nothing more than an expanded role, just like I thought it would) -- say Towns was on Duke and was afforded the same opportunities (Okafor's playing a full 10 mins more a game and with those 10 mins+/game, he's grabbing more rebounds, taking approx. 5 more shots/game to go along with 2 more FT per contest...and Towns is an 82% FT shooter mind you; Okafor isn't even close at just 51%). Right there closes the gap considerably in terms of forecasting Towns' output and production with a larger role on Duke. A couple of other assumptions: (1) Okafor is a better offensive player at this point, granted -- but if Towns was on a team like Duke and made the focal point from day 1 like Okafor, how much further along would he be right now offensively (and Towns has made nice progress btw -- his hook with either hand is dominate and NBA-ready imo)? If you don't wanna say 'a lot further' OK, gimmie 'further' and we'll call it a day. Assumption #2: For the few ppg that Towns may fall short (because that's all we're talking about here really -- there's a good chance Towns, given the mins, would surpass Okafor's production in just about every other category -- Towns probably would grab more rebounds, would more than double Okafor's shot blocks, would convert more FTs..), guys like Winslow, Cook, Jones, etc. would more than make up the slack, all taking another shots or 2 apiece to offset any difference. Assumption #3 (more of a personal opinion of mine on Towns' future as a pro) -- I think he's gonna be a much better pro than what we're seeing right now. Okafor, in terms of production, may not be.. Again, it's all sheer speculation but I think you can just as easiliy present the other side and say Towns would be in the same neighborhood with Okafor in terms of individual production as well as helping that Duke team be one of the best in the nation. You presented one side -- this other side is equally plausible imo. Fair enough. I've been back and forth like a pendulum on both guys myself. I just can't wait for this season to be over and to get busy revamping this team in the off-season. been a long year, man. WOW. Can't wait to have a much better year next year after making some much needed improvements. |
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BRIGGS
Posts: 53275 Alba Posts: 7 Joined: 7/30/2002 Member: #303 |
3/24/2015 2:00 PM LAST EDITED: 3/24/2015 2:01 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:BRIGGS wrote:If you are down 1 who would you rather have the last shot--Carmelo Anthony Jahill Okafor or Karl Towns. Bonn you uderstand right--that we could pull many rookies out of this years crop who would instantly be starters on the current Knicks. I know Jason Smith is in the pros-but I think Willie Stein would start over him pretty quickly--dont you? Langston Galloway who was not drafted is our starting 2 guard less than 1 year removed from St Josephs. RIP Crushalot😞
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