knicks1248 wrote:this guy is being paid 1 million less then pop and he's the 4th highest paid coach in the league, 12 fckng wins, phill could have gotten any space cadet to coach 12 wins.

Then clearly you totally missed the entire point of why Phil wanted Fish. Shaw wasn't available and Kerr took another job. So Phil went with a young prospect.

1. Phil stated he didn't want a retread. He wanted a young fresh mind to tutor and guide.
2. He wanted a coach who could relate to the younger players and had an understanding of how they think.
3. He wanted a coach who had knowledge of the ways Phil himself coached and ran teams and of course the Triangle, but he would give that coach flexibility to make needed tweaks.

IMO you can't let the money cloud your thinking on why Phil wanted Fish. Fish was already very much a coach in the locker room and leader among players. Those qualities were important to Phil. Phil knew that Fish was inexperienced. He likely envisioned Fish growing into the job with the team and the timing was right since this 1st year wasn't going to be the end of the process but only the beginning.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:this guy is being paid 1 million less then pop and he's the 4th highest paid coach in the league, 12 fckng wins, phill could have gotten any space cadet to coach 12 wins.

Then clearly you totally missed the entire point of why Phil wanted Fish. Shaw wasn't available and Kerr took another job. So Phil went with a young prospect.

1. Phil stated he didn't want a retread. He wanted a young fresh mind to tutor and guide.
2. He wanted a coach who could relate to the younger players and had an understanding of how they think.
3. He wanted a coach who had knowledge of the ways Phil himself coached and ran teams and of course the Triangle, but he would give that coach flexibility to make needed tweaks.

IMO you can't let the money cloud your thinking on why Phil wanted Fish. Fish was already very much a coach in the locker room and leader among players. Those qualities were important to Phil. Phil knew that Fish was inexperienced. He likely envisioned Fish growing into the job with the team and the timing was right since this 1st year wasn't going to be the end of the process but only the beginning.

Phil also wanted calderon to run the point, and thought he assemble a playoff roster before he gave that 60 days then tossed the plan. Phil also said it would take 45 to 47 wins to make the playoffs in the east, the current holder of the 8th seed is 10 games under .500

In other words, phil has been grossly wrong before.

newyorknewyork wrote:I still blame Don't Chaney.

Blame that firing on IT's ineptitude- didn't he let some comment slip in an interview that implied he was about to fire Chaney before he'd lined up a replacement coach, and then was left scrambling and picked the terrible Lenny Wilkins name out of thin air in a crisis meeting. Unbelievable! The hope at the time was for Mike Fratelli (or whatever his name was- the former Cavs coach), but somehow IT managed to piss him off or screw him over.

gunsnewing wrote:Thank God they didn't hire Fratello. Couldn't stsnd his 90s Cleveland teams. Wilkins was actually good here. Got us to the playoffs. Wasn't enough for the fans because they felt we should be better. Then Larry Brown took over and they found out the hard way that it was the roster. The genius roster Isiah put together

Good times!

I suspect most of the folk calling for Fish and Phil to be fired, weren't around back then

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:this guy is being paid 1 million less then pop and he's the 4th highest paid coach in the league, 12 fckng wins, phill could have gotten any space cadet to coach 12 wins.

Then clearly you totally missed the entire point of why Phil wanted Fish. Shaw wasn't available and Kerr took another job. So Phil went with a young prospect.

1. Phil stated he didn't want a retread. He wanted a young fresh mind to tutor and guide.
2. He wanted a coach who could relate to the younger players and had an understanding of how they think.
3. He wanted a coach who had knowledge of the ways Phil himself coached and ran teams and of course the Triangle, but he would give that coach flexibility to make needed tweaks.

IMO you can't let the money cloud your thinking on why Phil wanted Fish. Fish was already very much a coach in the locker room and leader among players. Those qualities were important to Phil. Phil knew that Fish was inexperienced. He likely envisioned Fish growing into the job with the team and the timing was right since this 1st year wasn't going to be the end of the process but only the beginning.

Phil also wanted calderon to run the point, and thought he assemble a playoff roster before he gave that 60 days then tossed the plan. Phil also said it would take 45 to 47 wins to make the playoffs in the east, the current holder of the 8th seed is 10 games under .500

In other words, phil has been grossly wrong before.

knickscity wrote:Fisher is pretty awful, but for the time being the talent is much worse. Fix the talent, if Fisher cant coach it, then he needs to go. And he doesnt need a full season either. You will be able to tell early on.

Not sure what you expect from Fish...
He can dress up for this Knicks and will be the best player on current active roster.
To me it looks that he making slow progress with in-game decisions and team management.
They start executing some sets and stick to strategies.
When not faced with overwhelming talent level (which will be rare games with today's NBA) they start looking competitive.
All this team need are 4 starters, 6th man, and 2-3 quality backups...

So, yeah he's been disastrous. Will he be as bad next year? Maybe.

His timeline is probably one half season after this. If the Knicks have Melo back + a good draft choice + a key free agent or two and they can't conceivably play for the 8th seed by the 20th game next season, Fisher will be on a timer to go on a winning streak before the All-Star game or he may get canned.

The notion that Phil will keep him around doesn't compute IMO. Fisher gets to keep $25M clams. That's a lot of salad for 18 months on the job. Nobody is going to say he was betrayed if Phil is pressured into firing him.

Now if the Knicks are losing that bad, then Phil's clock will be ticking before next season is over too. He is not untouchable. Dolan has burned up tens of millions on bad decisions and he will do it again if he feels the need to let them both go.

knicks1248 wrote:this guy is being paid 1 million less then pop and he's the 4th highest paid coach in the league, 12 fckng wins, phill could have gotten any space cadet to coach 12 wins.

You seem to be looking at the situation from an ignorant standpoint that is oblivious to the details that impacts it.