But that, my friends, is exactly what could happen, if the deal now being negotiated is accepted by Iran. That deal will not prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. It would all but guarantee that Iran gets those weapons, lots of them.
Let me explain why. While the final deal has not yet been signed, certain elements of any potential deal are now a matter of public record. You don’t need intelligence agencies and secret information to know this. You can Google it.
Absent a dramatic change, we know for sure that any deal with Iran will include two major concessions to Iran.
The first major concession would leave Iran with a vast nuclear infrastructure, providing it with a short breakout time to the bomb. Breakout time is the time it takes to amass enough weapons-grade uranium or plutonium for a nuclear bomb.
According to the deal, not a single nuclear facility would be demolished. Thousands of centrifuges used to enrich uranium would be left spinning. Thousands more would be temporarily disconnected, but not destroyed.
Because Iran’s nuclear program would be left largely intact, Iran’s breakout time would be very short — about a year by U.S. assessment, even shorter by Israel’s.
And if — if Iran’s work on advanced centrifuges, faster and faster centrifuges, is not stopped, that breakout time could still be shorter, a lot shorter.
True, certain restrictions would be imposed on Iran’s nuclear program and Iran’s adherence to those restrictions would be supervised by international inspectors. But here’s the problem. You see, inspectors document violations; they don’t stop them.
Inspectors knew when North Korea broke to the bomb, but that didn’t stop anything. North Korea turned off the cameras, kicked out the inspectors. Within a few years, it got the bomb.

Tell me what your arrogant, hated Israeli PM said in the above that is so derogatory to the intelligence of the US, the POTUS or poor Nancy Pelosi...?

Bibi made cogent points about the difference between ISIS and Iran.

Nice of us to sit here and pontificate about having our intelligence insulted. I guess if you had to live under an Iron Dome, you'd think a little differently about the plight of the nasty Israeli state sucking aid out of the US to stop those poor, misunderstood Iranians who are really pawns of a few religious fanatics...

I don't get how support of Israel is some polarizing political issue. Are they flying planes into buildings? Are they sending rockets unannounced into surrounding countries? Are they beheading people on YouTube?

They fight, every citizen, to survive, as a matter of course. Maybe you think they shouldn't exist as a state? I don't get it.

arkrud wrote:

Splat wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Splat wrote:Iran is a weird place. Full of many literate and cosmopolitan people, particularly the younger generations, who want to be part of the global exchange of culture and ideas. Yet the political system there remains thwarted by religious fanatics.

Iran's urban population has such great potential to be a positive part of a sane world, more so than many parts of the Middle East. I hope their leadership continues to evolve away from the fundamentalists.

the iran regime cannot be trusted, so in that regard netanyahu is right not to want a deal of any kind. the irani people, however, are for the most part as you describe. maybe this is the undercurrent of the obama diplomatic approach: stall until the irani people find a way to shed the theocracy they are ruled by. by taking the diplomatic route instead of the sanction route you stand less of a chance of alienating the irani citizenry. this is a tough one.

Agreed, it is a tightrope walk and the logic driving the administration would only be considered feasible because there is such a huge groundswell within the Iranian citizenry for a modern society. It has bubbled to the surface before and it will again. I'd like to visit Iran someday. I hope it works out.

Iran is monolithic country, predominately Shia Muslim and Persian.
It is one of the most heavily urbanized country in the world with urban population grow from 20% to 69% in 50 years.
This creates a huge population moves from rural area and most of this people naturally disoriented and lost.
This creates a groundwork for radical Shia Muslim ideology to take hold.
People fill the ideological vacuum with ideas of Shia/Persian dominance in Muslim world and Middle East.
Israel existence is insult to the Shia religions ideas and in their view it not spouse to exist.
On top of this Israel and US are the only obstacles to creating new Great Persian Empire.
Iranians will not stop in creating nuclear weapons no matter what Israel or US want.
This is just a matter of time. And they are close.
The only option left for Israel is military operation but in my opinion it is too late.
Bibi just playing politics. It is clear to anyone in Israel that US financial help became irrelevant.
The world war already started in Middle east and Europe. We cannot stop the inevitable.
The world population reached its peak and will start collapsing.
We will see more depopulation, self-destruction, suicide, genocide, pandemics, and wars.
Time to switch focus on how to deal with this reality.

http://www.census.gov/popclock/

World population: increasing by 140 people every minute.
US population: Net gain of 4 people every minute

Yes, the US and Israel. Two of the top 5 military powers on the planet. That's all that's standing in the way of a new improved Persia. Which, I believe, was conquered by a drunken Greek dictator.

jrodmc wrote:

But that, my friends, is exactly what could happen, if the deal now being negotiated is accepted by Iran. That deal will not prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. It would all but guarantee that Iran gets those weapons, lots of them.
Let me explain why. While the final deal has not yet been signed, certain elements of any potential deal are now a matter of public record. You don’t need intelligence agencies and secret information to know this. You can Google it.
Absent a dramatic change, we know for sure that any deal with Iran will include two major concessions to Iran.
The first major concession would leave Iran with a vast nuclear infrastructure, providing it with a short breakout time to the bomb. Breakout time is the time it takes to amass enough weapons-grade uranium or plutonium for a nuclear bomb.
According to the deal, not a single nuclear facility would be demolished. Thousands of centrifuges used to enrich uranium would be left spinning. Thousands more would be temporarily disconnected, but not destroyed.
Because Iran’s nuclear program would be left largely intact, Iran’s breakout time would be very short — about a year by U.S. assessment, even shorter by Israel’s.
And if — if Iran’s work on advanced centrifuges, faster and faster centrifuges, is not stopped, that breakout time could still be shorter, a lot shorter.
True, certain restrictions would be imposed on Iran’s nuclear program and Iran’s adherence to those restrictions would be supervised by international inspectors. But here’s the problem. You see, inspectors document violations; they don’t stop them.
Inspectors knew when North Korea broke to the bomb, but that didn’t stop anything. North Korea turned off the cameras, kicked out the inspectors. Within a few years, it got the bomb.

Tell me what your arrogant, hated Israeli PM said in the above that is so derogatory to the intelligence of the US, the POTUS or poor Nancy Pelosi...?

Bibi made cogent points about the difference between ISIS and Iran.

Nice of us to sit here and pontificate about having our intelligence insulted. I guess if you had to live under an Iron Dome, you'd think a little differently about the plight of the nasty Israeli state sucking aid out of the US to stop those poor, misunderstood Iranians who are really pawns of a few religious fanatics...

I don't get how support of Israel is some polarizing political issue. Are they flying planes into buildings? Are they sending rockets unannounced into surrounding countries? Are they beheading people on YouTube?

They fight, every citizen, to survive, as a matter of course. Maybe you think they shouldn't exist as a state? I don't get it.

Please don't confused questioning what occurred yesterday as some one who don't support the existence of Israel..It a cheap shot..

Correct me if I'm wrong...Before Obama, Not one American President had actually taken any steps to curb Iran's nuclear program...If I remember correctly, the previous administration policy was not to speak to Iran at all while they ramped up their nuclear program...Burying your head in the sand didn't make it go away..

Bibi has no plan...He wants war...And he wants us to lead it for him...If we can avoid war then why not??...How many more people have to die unnecessarily...And if you have been following the talks, one of conclusions are military action will only delay the inevitable...So Bibi just want a little get back on our tax payer's dime...I have seen this all before...

VCoug wrote:I liked this quote:

We are no longer scattered among the nations, powerless to defend ourselves. We restored our sovereignty in our ancient home. And the soldiers who defend our home have boundless courage. For the first time in 100 generations, we, the Jewish people, can defend ourselves.

Good, then you no longer need the $6B or so in aid we give you every year and why are you telling us that we should deal with Iran's nuclear capabilities? You can handle it now.

You are obviously not aware of the technological improvements the Israelis gave back to the US on virtually every system "handed" to them. This is not a one sided issue.

Knicks1969 wrote:In the minds of republicans, Obama is not their Preisdent; it is Netanyahu. Furthermore, they don't consider themselves Americans; they are Israelites. If you don't believe me, watch C-SPAN. They fight more to protect Israel than the United States.

hey, this looks like fun!

In the minds of democrats, anything that smacks of what Bush might have supported has to be wrong, unAmerican, intolerant and stupid. Furthermore, they don't consider themselves Americans, they are citizens of the World. If you don't believe me, watch almost any news outlet, including FoxNews. They fight more to distance themselves from any signs of conservatism than they ever would for the US.

Splat wrote:

dodger78 wrote:

Splat wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Splat wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Splat wrote:Iran is a weird place. Full of many literate and cosmopolitan people, particularly the younger generations, who want to be part of the global exchange of culture and ideas. Yet the political system there remains thwarted by religious fanatics.

Iran's urban population has such great potential to be a positive part of a sane world, more so than many parts of the Middle East. I hope their leadership continues to evolve away from the fundamentalists.

the iran regime cannot be trusted, so in that regard netanyahu is right not to want a deal of any kind. the irani people, however, are for the most part as you describe. maybe this is the undercurrent of the obama diplomatic approach: stall until the irani people find a way to shed the theocracy they are ruled by. by taking the diplomatic route instead of the sanction route you stand less of a chance of alienating the irani citizenry. this is a tough one.

Agreed, it is a tightrope walk and the logic driving the administration would only be considered feasible because there is such a huge groundswell within the Iranian citizenry for a modern society. It has bubbled to the surface before and it will again. I'd like to visit Iran someday. I hope it works out.

Iran is monolithic country, predominately Shia Muslim and Persian.
It is one of the most heavily urbanized country in the world with urban population grow from 20% to 69% in 50 years.
This creates a huge population moves from rural area and most of this people naturally disoriented and lost.
This creates a groundwork for radical Shia Muslim ideology to take hold.
People fill the ideological vacuum with ideas of Shia/Persian dominance in Muslim world and Middle East.
Israel existence is insult to the Shia religions ideas and in their view it not spouse to exist.
On top of this Israel and US are the only obstacles to creating new Great Persian Empire.
Iranians will not stop in creating nuclear weapons no matter what Israel or US want.
This is just a matter of time. And they are close.
The only option left for Israel is military operation but in my opinion it is too late.
Bibi just playing politics. It is clear to anyone in Israel that US financial help became irrelevant.
The world war already started in Middle east and Europe. We cannot stop the inevitable.

I hope you're wrong about WW3. So many positive things are happening in the world at the same time the most regressive elements are seizing the moment. When I was a kid I never thought in the year 2015 it would amount to global conflict over religious ideologies. While some may say it is not really about religion, that does not really matter. It is about belief systems that define what race is morally superior and the willingness to kill over that. Western civ has many offenses to answer for, but the fundamentalists are worse. Good luck to all of us.

Can you please elaborate where in Europe WW3 has started? You talk about the Ukrain? This is just regional interests of a dictator and playing his game of power with the West...
And in the Middle East you talk about ISIS I would suppose... ISIS is a threat no doubt but both this has not yet reached any kind of WW scale and it never will.
There is to much money and interests scattered across borders by the rich nowadays to allow things to fall apart the way you describe...
Fundamentalists are tools to the rich as well in most cases... its about financial interests.

BTW a nice documentary about an america baller in Iran... I really liked it.

Arkud said WW, not me, so you may want to reply to their message and not mine

Syria, Iraq, Libya, Nigeria, Somalia, Chad, Yemen, Afghanistan, Ukraine, etc. are already in state of war running by various proxies.
Religion is only a pretext but not the reason.
There are too many people and not enough wealth in big swats of the planet.
This situation cannot hold for long.
The process of population collapse is already started. Russia, China, Japan, Europe are all depopulating.
The areas still in the process of population explosion like Middle East and Africa are entering into the state of chaos and population will naturally go down from war, pandemics, refuges... and nobody want to take them.
Open your eyes. It is happening now. and Israel is in the middle of this.
Time stop with political correctness bull and look for solution to minimize the un-civilization process.

jrodmc wrote:

holfresh wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

But that, my friends, is exactly what could happen, if the deal now being negotiated is accepted by Iran. That deal will not prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. It would all but guarantee that Iran gets those weapons, lots of them.
Let me explain why. While the final deal has not yet been signed, certain elements of any potential deal are now a matter of public record. You don’t need intelligence agencies and secret information to know this. You can Google it.
Absent a dramatic change, we know for sure that any deal with Iran will include two major concessions to Iran.
The first major concession would leave Iran with a vast nuclear infrastructure, providing it with a short breakout time to the bomb. Breakout time is the time it takes to amass enough weapons-grade uranium or plutonium for a nuclear bomb.
According to the deal, not a single nuclear facility would be demolished. Thousands of centrifuges used to enrich uranium would be left spinning. Thousands more would be temporarily disconnected, but not destroyed.
Because Iran’s nuclear program would be left largely intact, Iran’s breakout time would be very short — about a year by U.S. assessment, even shorter by Israel’s.
And if — if Iran’s work on advanced centrifuges, faster and faster centrifuges, is not stopped, that breakout time could still be shorter, a lot shorter.
True, certain restrictions would be imposed on Iran’s nuclear program and Iran’s adherence to those restrictions would be supervised by international inspectors. But here’s the problem. You see, inspectors document violations; they don’t stop them.
Inspectors knew when North Korea broke to the bomb, but that didn’t stop anything. North Korea turned off the cameras, kicked out the inspectors. Within a few years, it got the bomb.

Tell me what your arrogant, hated Israeli PM said in the above that is so derogatory to the intelligence of the US, the POTUS or poor Nancy Pelosi...?

Bibi made cogent points about the difference between ISIS and Iran.

Nice of us to sit here and pontificate about having our intelligence insulted. I guess if you had to live under an Iron Dome, you'd think a little differently about the plight of the nasty Israeli state sucking aid out of the US to stop those poor, misunderstood Iranians who are really pawns of a few religious fanatics...

I don't get how support of Israel is some polarizing political issue. Are they flying planes into buildings? Are they sending rockets unannounced into surrounding countries? Are they beheading people on YouTube?

They fight, every citizen, to survive, as a matter of course. Maybe you think they shouldn't exist as a state? I don't get it.

Please don't confused questioning what occurred yesterday as some one who don't support the existence of Israel..It a cheap shot..

You didn't answer one question I raised, so how do you support the existence of Israel?

holfresh wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong...Before Obama, Not one American President had actually taken any steps to curb Iran's nuclear program...If I remember correctly, the previous administration policy was not to speak to Iran at all while they ramped up their nuclear program...Burying your head in the sand didn't make it go away..

the previous administration's policy was investing hundreds of millions in trying to get the regime changed. Or maybe you don't remember smiling at all the "regime change starts at home" memes before Obama?

From the New Yorker, circa 2008:

The request for funding came in the same period in which the Administration was coming to terms with a National Intelligence Estimate, released in December, that concluded that Iran had halted its work on nuclear weapons in 2003. The Administration downplayed the significance of the N.I.E., and, while saying that it was committed to diplomacy, continued to emphasize that urgent action was essential to counter the Iranian nuclear threat. President Bush questioned the N.I.E.’s conclusions, and senior national-security officials, including Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, made similar statements. (So did Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican Presidential nominee.)

holfresh wrote:
Bibi has no plan...He wants war...And he wants us to lead it for him...If we can avoid war then why not??...How many more people have to die unnecessarily...And if you have been following the talks, one of conclusions are military action will only delay the inevitable...So Bibi just want a little get back on our tax payer's dime...I have seen this all before...

That's a great question in bold. Yet, once again, it's all about your hard earned tax money, right?

I'm sure Bibi has a plan, and it's not to placate and hope and wring his hands waiting for the inevitable... which I guess, according to you, is the only plan worth proceeding with. Do you really think he's supposed to try "diplomacy and direct talks" with Iran? On what basis you think that's really the way to go? I'm honestly asking.

You didn't answer one question I raised, so how do you support the existence of Israel?

Seems like it must be said..Yes I do indeed support the existence of Israel as a Jewish State onto itself and I do support the right for it to defend itself...So if you question anything out of Israel, you risk being labeled anti-Semitic etc???

Bibi's stated plan is to increase sanctions on Iran...They will somehow fold and come back to the bargaining table to adhere to the West demands...This has not worked for the past decade...Iran will just continue towards a nuclear weapon if this path is chosen..They will have the material to build a bomb in one year's time...The US will have no choice but to take out Iran's nuclear program by military means..This is what Bibi is hoping...This will only slow them down but not prevent the inevitable..

Iraq provided a check in the balance of power in the Middle East before we took them out...Iraq was the counter balance to Iran, now that's gone..Now we want to take out Iran too, after seeing the successes of the previous campaign in Iraq?..

As far as talks with Iran, If the stated negotiations are to be believed, we buy 10 years in trying to curtail their development of the weapon..Of course they can't be trusted but what is the alternative plan at this point...Roll back their development so it takes them 1 year to build the weapon, it gives us time to come up with a plan should we choose to go to war...But not having a plan is a plan to go to war in another year or so...In my opinion, for some like Bibi, this is the first option..For me, it should be our last option...And yes, I care of the American lives invested in these campaigns and the money and massive deficits incurred by them...

Splat wrote:Iran is a weird place. Full of many literate and cosmopolitan people, particularly the younger generations, who want to be part of the global exchange of culture and ideas. Yet the political system there remains thwarted by religious fanatics.

Iran's urban population has such great potential to be a positive part of a sane world, more so than many parts of the Middle East. I hope their leadership continues to evolve away from the fundamentalists.

...and nothing in your response had anything to do with explaining why the hell does a foreigner on behalf of an independent nation have so much sway on our politics. That is a point that both the OP and I are wondering.

BigRedDog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

holfresh wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/04/world/middleeast/netanyahu-congress-iran-israel-speech.html?ref=us&_r=0

Wow..What an insult to the President, the office of the Presidency and the people of the United States of America...
The balls of this guy and Boehner to pull this off on American soil, in the halls of Congress, where the President spoke just over a month ago..

Truly Shameful...

What really is shameful is your post. He was invited to speak here, He is a politician running for office and most importantly the issue about Iran getting nuclear weapons is something that can't be ignored. He did thank Obama and America for their support. Your wording does have anti-semitic tones.

BigRedDog doing his usual hit and run..Not much of intelligence to add, just here for the smear..This is a good topic to enlighten us your views..What part of what I said came across as being anti-Semitic, just the mere action of questioning Netanyahu's intent or being appalled at the speech??..

I'm lost as to what is meant by "he is a politician running for office and more importantly the issue about Iran getting nuclear weapons is something that can't be ignored"...Are you really not clued into whats happening or is it just sheer ignorance on your part, which by the way, still didn't give you pause before you replied to my post..Who is ignoring Iran's nuclear ambitions that you feel the need to point out it's being ignored??? And since when politicians around the world use our Congress, the very body in the same manner our President use to give the State of the Union address, to insult our President, for their own political gain at home, just ahead of their elections?

Holfresh, I don't know you , never had an interaction with you before but I obviously touched a nerve with you. Why don't you keep it on topic instead of attacking someone personally? Politics is not worth debating with crazy people. Do me a favor, join the list and put me on ignore

You are right, I don't know you..But you have interacted with me in similar fashion a few weeks ago...You did the same with some one else two/three days ago...Now you are wondering why I followed up your attacks with an attack of my own??..Like I said, I lost..