fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Karl Towns should be the Knicks number #1 pick. I don't need to see anything more from him Okafor Mudiay Russell or anyone else--if people have been watching CBB all year and watched today--that was the clincher---Towns is the best prospect and there is a decent margin to it.

My hope is the Knicks get a pick 1 or 2 but hopefully #1 and take Towns. I think it's possible to expand on draft success with all of thee big players if we can shift the pick from 2018 into this one and pay a premium for a high 2. I really believe we can change our frontline for the next 12 years in this draft with aggression luck and execution. We can be very laxed with our cap money if we can execute like this--if we bring in 6-11 6-11 6-9--maybe its best to have 1 more developmental year and see if we can rinse and repeat the same process into the backcourt. The bargs trade is just an absolute killer a killer to us at the top end in 2016. No shortcuts. If Melo comes back and hes great and hes healthy and hes playing well and he doesnt like it if were losing--then we trad e him for a maximum return.

When you, or anyone else, are making these evals....are you taking into consideration the match ups and the defensive strategies that other teams are taking when facing Towns or Okafor?

I ask this because when I watch Duke play, Okafor is getting doubled/tripled (I would guess) 80% of the time and he still manages to put up respectable numbers.
I don't see Towns getting doubled as much and playing next to Cauley-Stein, takes a huge load of his shoulders.

With that said, I think the Knicks will do fine with either player.

I agree with you and have said this several times. Karl Towns has not faced anywhere near the defensive pressure that Okafor has--not even close AND he has not contributed close to what Okafor has. That being said Towns who had been a little underwhelming to start the season despite immense talent for a 6-10 player seemed to pick it up opnce he was called out by his coach. Then when you just look at his play--his movements--his skills on both ends--atleast to me you see value that exceeds Okafor's in the total game. Perhaps Okafor is a 25 point scorer---hes got a chance. But I think Towns can have more benefit for a team with his shot blocking abilities to go along with his rebounding and offensive game. While you dont see it often--he has more diversity to his offensive game than Okafor--hes longer to the ball than Okafor. He can shoot from 12-16 feet spot up and shoot he can handle better--when he is intense he just seems to really show a complete game. Ive been watching these two all year. If I had pick 1 as of today I would not trade it I would just use it on Towns. Actually right now we dont want Towns to play big minutes anymore--Ive seen what I need to see. I saw they moved him up to #2 this weekend on DX from 4 and Im sure that multiple NBA teams may have him number 1 right now. Its IMPERATIVE IMPERATIVE for the Knicks to fall in last place to guarantee a top4 selection its paramount. It will give us nearly 50-50 odds of getting pick 1 or 2.

its SOOOO not a sure thing.

If Towns was playing 30+ minutes great. He's not. You have said it. Towns is still unproven. I hope if we get him you guys are right, and Im not saying your wrong, not saying that at all, but he has the option to hang back and play a role. Some games he scores, others he doesnt really bother to because they dont need that. He's on a roster with 2 other bigs. He's not asked to anchor the defense (Stein) or be the primary scorer (OK4)... so the we must draft this guy crowd is assuming his skills will translate into NBA play and thats not always the case.

I mean yea he looked like a beast in that last Auburn game... against a front court of 6-7, 6-8 guys and KY is up 20+ at the half.

I understand the upside but based on the downside Im still sitting pretty easy w/ OK4 or Russell 1/2

exaclty!

I agree with everything that Briggs said about skill set but what does worry me a bit is the fact that he has to motivated and pushed to perform. To me, that comes off as weak minded and we don't need that.

Not at Towns hater...I think they both bring something to the table. I just hope the Knicks make the right choice. This can easily turn into Durant/Oden or even Chandler/Curry

gunsnewing wrote:There's no denying ok4 is a big time scorer in college

Chris Kaman was also a big time scorer in college. Well, at least his last year. Kaman actually had better stats than OK4 in his last year. Yet...Kaman is not a big time scorer in the NBA. Kaman only reached 19 ppg in the NBA twice in his career. I guess my point is that looking at scoring in college is a great barometer but you have to look at the package as a whole. OK4 now seems 1 dimensional. Another good example is Kurt "Crazy Eyes" Thomas. Dude led the nation in scoring and it did not translate well in the pros. I would be happy with OK4 as our pick but I hope Uncle Phil and his staff really does their homework and pick the right guy. This is a make it or break it type draft for us. We are putting our eggs in 2 baskets. This pick and the FA market. We need to hit gold on both.

NYKBocker wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:There's no denying ok4 is a big time scorer in college

Chris Kaman was also a big time scorer in college. Well, at least his last year. Kaman actually had better stats than OK4 in his last year. Yet...Kaman is not a big time scorer in the NBA. Kaman only reached 19 ppg in the NBA twice in his career. I guess my point is that looking at scoring in college is a great barometer but you have to look at the package as a whole. OK4 now seems 1 dimensional. Another good example is Kurt "Crazy Eyes" Thomas. Dude led the nation in scoring and it did not translate well in the pros. I would be happy with OK4 as our pick but I hope Uncle Phil and his staff really does their homework and pick the right guy. This is a make it or break it type draft for us. We are putting our eggs in 2 baskets. This pick and the FA market. We need to hit gold on both.

fishmike wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:There's no denying ok4 is a big time scorer in college

Chris Kaman was also a big time scorer in college. Well, at least his last year. Kaman actually had better stats than OK4 in his last year. Yet...Kaman is not a big time scorer in the NBA. Kaman only reached 19 ppg in the NBA twice in his career. I guess my point is that looking at scoring in college is a great barometer but you have to look at the package as a whole. OK4 now seems 1 dimensional. Another good example is Kurt "Crazy Eyes" Thomas. Dude led the nation in scoring and it did not translate well in the pros. I would be happy with OK4 as our pick but I hope Uncle Phil and his staff really does their homework and pick the right guy. This is a make it or break it type draft for us. We are putting our eggs in 2 baskets. This pick and the FA market. We need to hit gold on both.

you look at the skill set. Kaman was scored more with size in school and OK4 is more skilled. Kaman's biggest NBA hurdle has been health. By year 3 he was a double double guy shooting over 50%. He's had a hard time staying on the court but has shown stretches of being a very good player. Dude just cant keep from breaking

fishmike wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:There's no denying ok4 is a big time scorer in college

Chris Kaman was also a big time scorer in college. Well, at least his last year. Kaman actually had better stats than OK4 in his last year. Yet...Kaman is not a big time scorer in the NBA. Kaman only reached 19 ppg in the NBA twice in his career. I guess my point is that looking at scoring in college is a great barometer but you have to look at the package as a whole. OK4 now seems 1 dimensional. Another good example is Kurt "Crazy Eyes" Thomas. Dude led the nation in scoring and it did not translate well in the pros. I would be happy with OK4 as our pick but I hope Uncle Phil and his staff really does their homework and pick the right guy. This is a make it or break it type draft for us. We are putting our eggs in 2 baskets. This pick and the FA market. We need to hit gold on both.

you look at the skill set. Kaman was scored more with size in school and OK4 is more skilled. Kaman's biggest NBA hurdle has been health. By year 3 he was a double double guy shooting over 50%. He's had a hard time staying on the court but has shown stretches of being a very good player. Dude just cant keep from breaking

Great point on Kaman. My only thing with OK4 is that he doesn't seem to be the complete package. His rebounding and defense is not worthy of a #1 selection overall IMHO. Does his offensive skills warrant such a high ranking? I don't know. Right now, from what I have been seeing lately, I would go with Towns over OK4.

the rebounding is there... The defense is not. Im sure alot of that is they rely on his on offense so much he cant afford to pick up fouls. Thats not an excuse.. that part of his game is lacking, just an observation. My problem with Towns is he's ALWAYS next to another 7 footer, and one that is the best defensive big in CBB.

Just another thing that makes Towns even harder to evaluate.

OK has the wingspan of Brook Lopez. He's one of the longest players out there. At 6'10 with a 7'5+ wingspan at 19 with his ability to dominate under double and triples ever game is why he's the #1. Towns is there because of potential, just like Muiday is. Russell and OK4 are the guys putting up the #s.

fishmike wrote:]you look at the skill set. Kaman was scored more with size in school and OK4 is more skilled. Kaman's biggest NBA hurdle has been health. By year 3 he was a double double guy shooting over 50%. He's had a hard time staying on the court but has shown stretches of being a very good player. Dude just cant keep from breaking

kaman put up similar numbers in a vastly weaker conference(MAC) when he was two years older than ok4 is now... the age difference alone puts ok4 on a different trajectory...

ok4 cannot anchor a defense on his own and he will probably never get there.. so you will need to pair him with someone who can... that kind of player is going be of the chandler/mozgov variety... the all defense, very limited offense kind of center/pf.... that also has repurcussions on the offensive side when you have two players who are not a threat past 10 ft..

towns is not going to be the best defender in the league but he's already pretty good with a chance to be elite down the line... you then have much more flexibility on the pairings as you could go either way esp since towns is a threat past 15 ft...