EnySpree wrote:Why is this being called an excellent post by some of you?

It's excellent to say we're doomed to be horrible for another decade?

This is sports not the 9/11... this is not the sports equivalent to building the freedom towers. This is not the earthquakes in haiti. It's sports.

We draft well, Melo comes back ready to go, we sign some legit nba players and mother****er we are back just like that. Stop swimming in misery you negative Nancy's. You can't bring positivity through negativity

gunsnewing wrote:^Right the last 15yrs have been miserable as a Knick fan. No one is rebelling in the misery. Fortunately I'm also a big Giants, Yankees & Rangers fan but the Knicks are still my #1 team and the team I want to see win the most. Unfortunately we have one of the worst owners in sports history.

gunsnewing wrote:I've been a little critical of Phil's(Mills, whatever) dealings recently but it as clear as day Dolan was and continues to be the underlying problem

misterearl wrote:Did somebody say continuity?

Mozgov, Shump and JR, ALL contributing in Cleveland

Zach Randolph an All Star in Memphis.

Tyson, Felton now Stoudemire, in Dallas.

David Lee in Golden State, Lin in Los Angeles.

Wilson Chandler in Denver and... Jamal Crawford somewhere else, did I miss anyone?

VCoug wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Why is this being called an excellent post by some of you?

It's excellent to say we're doomed to be horrible for another decade?

This is sports not the 9/11... this is not the sports equivalent to building the freedom towers. This is not the earthquakes in haiti. It's sports.

We draft well, Melo comes back ready to go, we sign some legit nba players and mother****er we are back just like that. Stop swimming in misery you negative Nancy's. You can't bring positivity through negativity

False. -1 * -1 = +1

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:Has Dolan really ruined anything he needs a winner as badly as we do for him it's money in the pockets for us it a good nights sleep. Instead of blaming Dolan lets see what he has tried to do to win. He brought in Isiah which at the time people liked, then he brought, Larry Brown which at the time people liked, he brought in Amare which at the time looked like a great move. He brought in Melo which most liked, so you have an owner trying to do his best but everything seems to back fire on him. His last move was to bring Phil Jackson which most people like to top it off he is out of the picture and gave the keys to Phil which everyone seems to like. I always said you want an owner like Dolan who spends money, I just think the people around him haven't managed his deep pockets to well.

Phil gets it you can see the plan taking place top pick to go with cap space, the Knicks will be relevant very quickly. Then we can thank Dolan for bringing in Phil Jackson. This is a very tough market to play in the media is harsh here and they look for any angle to take shots at the Knicks. You know and I know that the media here plays a huge role and sometime they scare good players away. To me the biggest culprit is the media they are the toughest team in town they damage the Knicks much harder than anyone.

As fans we need to realize also that this year is a major step in the right direction for this franchise and we need to let what is happening happen for the good. The Media wants to stir the fan base, with their useless stories. Fans need to be wise to it.

Vmart like dolan stepping into thecarmelo trade and giving denver carte blanche over all of our assets? How about saying no to giving toronto an unrestricted pick for bargs? At the end of the day yhe owner needs to have a say right? But dolans say has been brutal for the knicks on a side note why doesn't dolan give tix holders back someloot.

If you had hired so called experts, to tell you what move needs to be done and how they plan on doing it. Whether it's throwing In a extra pick or whatever and they f' up a trade you blame the owner. No it doesn't work like that that f' up was Grunwald's not Dolan's.

As for Denver trade I know what he was thinking, he was thinking I got Amare all I need now is Melo to complete this superstar tandem. There was a lot of pressure from the media and the fans to get Melo here ASAP. We gave up a lot I agree but in hind sight was it really that bad? Most of what was involved has either regressed or not panned out.

Like that Sixer GM said your not going to hit a home run every time. He rolled the dice on the Melo deal it wasn't so bad. We weren't going to go to far anyways after Amare threw out his back.

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:Has Dolan really ruined anything he needs a winner as badly as we do for him it's money in the pockets for us it a good nights sleep. Instead of blaming Dolan lets see what he has tried to do to win. He brought in Isiah which at the time people liked, then he brought, Larry Brown which at the time people liked, he brought in Amare which at the time looked like a great move. He brought in Melo which most liked, so you have an owner trying to do his best but everything seems to back fire on him. His last move was to bring Phil Jackson which most people like to top it off he is out of the picture and gave the keys to Phil which everyone seems to like. I always said you want an owner like Dolan who spends money, I just think the people around him haven't managed his deep pockets to well.

Phil gets it you can see the plan taking place top pick to go with cap space, the Knicks will be relevant very quickly. Then we can thank Dolan for bringing in Phil Jackson. This is a very tough market to play in the media is harsh here and they look for any angle to take shots at the Knicks. You know and I know that the media here plays a huge role and sometime they scare good players away. To me the biggest culprit is the media they are the toughest team in town they damage the Knicks much harder than anyone.

As fans we need to realize also that this year is a major step in the right direction for this franchise and we need to let what is happening happen for the good. The Media wants to stir the fan base, with their useless stories. Fans need to be wise to it.

Vmart like dolan stepping into thecarmelo trade and giving denver carte blanche over all of our assets? How about saying no to giving toronto an unrestricted pick for bargs? At the end of the day yhe owner needs to have a say right? But dolans say has been brutal for the knicks on a side note why doesn't dolan give tix holders back someloot.

If you had hired so called experts, to tell you what move needs to be done and how they plan on doing it. Whether it's throwing In a extra pick or whatever and they f' up a trade you blame the owner. No it doesn't work like that that f' up was Grunwald's not Dolan's.

As for Denver trade I know what he was thinking, he was thinking I got Amare all I need now is Melo to complete this superstar tandem. There was a lot of pressure from the media and the fans to get Melo here ASAP. We gave up a lot I agree but in hind sight was it really that bad? Most of what was involved has either regressed or not panned out.

Like that Sixer GM said your not going to hit a home run every time. He rolled the dice on the Melo deal it wasn't so bad. We weren't going to go to far anyways after Amare threw out his back.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Vmart wrote:Has Dolan really ruined anything he needs a winner as badly as we do for him it's money in the pockets for us it a good nights sleep. Instead of blaming Dolan lets see what he has tried to do to win. He brought in Isiah which at the time people liked, then he brought, Larry Brown which at the time people liked, he brought in Amare which at the time looked like a great move. He brought in Melo which most liked, so you have an owner trying to do his best but everything seems to back fire on him. His last move was to bring Phil Jackson which most people like to top it off he is out of the picture and gave the keys to Phil which everyone seems to like. I always said you want an owner like Dolan who spends money, I just think the people around him haven't managed his deep pockets to well.

Phil gets it you can see the plan taking place top pick to go with cap space, the Knicks will be relevant very quickly. Then we can thank Dolan for bringing in Phil Jackson. This is a very tough market to play in the media is harsh here and they look for any angle to take shots at the Knicks. You know and I know that the media here plays a huge role and sometime they scare good players away. To me the biggest culprit is the media they are the toughest team in town they damage the Knicks much harder than anyone.

As fans we need to realize also that this year is a major step in the right direction for this franchise and we need to let what is happening happen for the good. The Media wants to stir the fan base, with their useless stories. Fans need to be wise to it.

I really have a problem with the print media covering this team. They seem vindictive and eager to portray the team in the worst light possible. They do not recognize the Knicks losses as a tanked season, they see it as "atrocious". Our failure to give away more draft picks for RFAs at the trade deadline is characterized as Jackson being outwitted and outmaneuvered. I don't want to seem like a revisionist historian here, but although I had hope for the Knicks this season, it was always the best move for us to tank this season since we have our pick and had little hope of competing against the powerhouses THIS year. Honestly, I have stopped reading Berman and Isola outright. F--- them, go cover the Islanders. We need some writers that are fans too. Jackson has made good decisions IMO. Ones that I support. Not having the assets to make the deals for RFAs at the deadline is not his fault, its a characteristic of an organization that has mortgaged its future to try and appease the masses (stirred by the media) in the present.

I am pro-zenmaster too... and I will be pro whoever his successor is whenever he gets sick of the medias BS. But I hope PJ is the guy to take this team to the holy land. He really brought a ray of hope to this team -- even if we have to tank this year to put ourselves in the best position to win in the future.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Vmart wrote:Has Dolan really ruined anything he needs a winner as badly as we do for him it's money in the pockets for us it a good nights sleep. Instead of blaming Dolan lets see what he has tried to do to win. He brought in Isiah which at the time people liked, then he brought, Larry Brown which at the time people liked, he brought in Amare which at the time looked like a great move. He brought in Melo which most liked, so you have an owner trying to do his best but everything seems to back fire on him. His last move was to bring Phil Jackson which most people like to top it off he is out of the picture and gave the keys to Phil which everyone seems to like. I always said you want an owner like Dolan who spends money, I just think the people around him haven't managed his deep pockets to well.

Phil gets it you can see the plan taking place top pick to go with cap space, the Knicks will be relevant very quickly. Then we can thank Dolan for bringing in Phil Jackson. This is a very tough market to play in the media is harsh here and they look for any angle to take shots at the Knicks. You know and I know that the media here plays a huge role and sometime they scare good players away. To me the biggest culprit is the media they are the toughest team in town they damage the Knicks much harder than anyone.

As fans we need to realize also that this year is a major step in the right direction for this franchise and we need to let what is happening happen for the good. The Media wants to stir the fan base, with their useless stories. Fans need to be wise to it.

I really have a problem with the print media covering this team. They seem vindictive and eager to portray the team in the worst light possible. They do not recognize the Knicks losses as a tanked season, they see it as "atrocious". Our failure to give away more draft picks for RFAs at the trade deadline is characterized as Jackson being outwitted and outmaneuvered. I don't want to seem like a revisionist historian here, but although I had hope for the Knicks this season, it was always the best move for us to tank this season since we have our pick and had little hope of competing against the powerhouses THIS year. Honestly, I have stopped reading Berman and Isola outright. F--- them, go cover the Islanders. We need some writers that are fans too. Jackson has made good decisions IMO. Ones that I support. Not having the assets to make the deals for RFAs at the deadline is not his fault, its a characteristic of an organization that has mortgaged its future to try and appease the masses (stirred by the media) in the present.

I am pro-zenmaster too... and I will be pro whoever his successor is whenever he gets sick of the medias BS. But I hope PJ is the guy to take this team to the holy land. He really brought a ray of hope to this team -- even if we have to tank this year to put ourselves in the best position to win in the future.

Because it's not a tanked season. Phil took on extra salary past this season in an attempt to improve this team to the playoffs. He said that when he made the trade, he said it again prior to the beginning of the season, and he's said it again on multiple occasions that he thought he had built a playoff caliber team. Instead, he built the worst team in franchise history.

misterearl wrote:Despite the capacity crowds and the optimism of nixluva, the Answer Man reports a sobering fact of professional sports. There is no guarantee that the damage inflicted on our beloved basketball team can be corrected by all the Kings horses, Kings men and Uncle Phil.

Ten wins.

Think about that a moment. Unlike the Spurs, who had David Robinson and a magic draft pick, we have an injured, ego-centric shooter and not much else. There are moments the rose-tinted shades are raised and the glare from Golden State, San Antonio, Washington, Cleveland and even Atlanta... is blinding. Philadelphia and Boston will have a battalion of yoots to deploy.

We hang our hopes on Langston Galloway.

Most troubling, however, is the corporate mentality that relies on cash over creativity. The mission statement is callous and cold. We have no heart and soul. When the owner insults a loyal, yet frustrated, fan what more needs to be said?

It will require a decade of good karma, rolling sevens on a crapshoot of draft picks and the patience of as much time as it took to make the mess. Are you prepared for that?

All of us sense some degree of truth in the notion that Dolan is an inveterate poison and that the team may never win while he remains owner. But then reason comes back to us and we remember that players play, coaches coach, and owners run a business.

If the Knicks find their way through the forest to a clearing (not necessarily a chip, but at least back to multiple ECFs with a shot at winning it all) then please remember this post.

I already added it to my UK bookmarks folder for future reference. I won't hold it against you because I detest Dolan with all of my NYK fan spirit, but I also recognize that owners don't really hamper true winners. Time will tell.