Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Yes, Melo adds nothing because everyone knows people will pay good coin to watch

Jason Smith on Broadway.

I don't think anyone on this planet ever said that Melo wasn't marketable

just not worth the market

Oh, he's probably very much worth the market in terms of profits, just not in terms of winning. When I say not worth the market, I'm talking about winning not about lining Dolan's pockets.

and we come full cirlce once again. Your market doesnt exist. Its pretend. Make believe. If you want to cling to that cool... but it has very little relevence in NBA team building. Yours is a number on a spread sheet. Mine is what determines who, when and for how much you can get certain players on your team for. If you want to ignore that real # and focus on your imaginary # your not really bringing much to the discussion.

*Thinking* of Melo as a $16mm a year player is a waste of thought. Might at well *think* of Jessica Alba waking you up in the morning with a kiss and tug. Neither have any basis in reality, however the Alba thought will start your day in happier state of mind.

You can get a great starting lineup for only a little more than Melo. A world in which Melo would accept a lower salary obviously doesn't exist though. That's why I said numerous times I would have traded him before free agency and said numerous times during the summer that the least bad option would be to let him walk. I never expected him to sign or even consider signing for what he was worth in terms of win production. You seem to think I did but I did not.

and we come full cirlce a second time. I know you have said many times in many threads the players you would get, but I would love to see your "really" good starting lineup using the Melo money. Keep in mind you can only choose players who have been signed as FAs as that is the market you would be participating in.

Youre asked this quite a bit... I know you would have let him walk and easily signed more eff% and bettter players for lower cost. Love to know who there are. Who is in this vast pool of players that you view as available and viable options?

I don't do this for a living and wouldn't be nearly as good as someone who does. But I have pointed out guys like JJ Reddick, Paul Milsap, James Harden, Kyle Korver, and more. I would have kept Tyson unless a great deal came along, and kept draft picks (great value) unless someone truly worth giving up picks for (like in a Harden trade) was available. You can't build a team only on FAs, though, obviously, and the point of cap room is to facilitate trades too. So your question about only FAs is strange. The answer to your question also depends on what point in time you want to go back to. I never wanted Melo or Amare at their prices, and so we would have had far more cap space and assets to make trades. Although I can tell that giving Melo the largest contract on the planet is bad value, it would make more sense to ask people like Stephen Shea who have written books on the topic than me what the best available players for their prices are (or read what they have already written).

Hey dude, I see that you stay away from the shot chart / efficiency like the plague.

Afraid to get your hands dirty? Or you don't have the time? Or both?

Don't be so lazy :-)

What do you mean? Those guys I listed are efficient

I am talking about in the other threads where I am trying to argue with the wall about long 2's and etc ...

Do you just look at the final eff numbers or do you look / read trends in regards to shot charts / shot selection, patterns, offensive coaching philosophy, etc ...

A little bit about shot charts.
Yeah, I agree with you about the long 2 being a terrible shot

it would be nice to discuss things like this stuff as opposed to regurgitating the melo signing which is sad aint changing.

The geeks have blown this open and it is changing the game (though purists don't like it).

The data is fascinating ... which UKers would devote more time to fun stuff like this instead of melo talk, trade machine fantasies that will never happen, things that are irrelevant and that can/will never happen, etc ..., all the fantasy GM stuff ...

The geeks don't spend time playing with trade machines. They are doing statistical analysis that is changing every ones game.

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Yes, Melo adds nothing because everyone knows people will pay good coin to watch

Jason Smith on Broadway.

I don't think anyone on this planet ever said that Melo wasn't marketable

just not worth the market

Oh, he's probably very much worth the market in terms of profits, just not in terms of winning. When I say not worth the market, I'm talking about winning not about lining Dolan's pockets.

and we come full cirlce once again. Your market doesnt exist. Its pretend. Make believe. If you want to cling to that cool... but it has very little relevence in NBA team building. Yours is a number on a spread sheet. Mine is what determines who, when and for how much you can get certain players on your team for. If you want to ignore that real # and focus on your imaginary # your not really bringing much to the discussion.

*Thinking* of Melo as a $16mm a year player is a waste of thought. Might at well *think* of Jessica Alba waking you up in the morning with a kiss and tug. Neither have any basis in reality, however the Alba thought will start your day in happier state of mind.

You can get a great starting lineup for only a little more than Melo. A world in which Melo would accept a lower salary obviously doesn't exist though. That's why I said numerous times I would have traded him before free agency and said numerous times during the summer that the least bad option would be to let him walk. I never expected him to sign or even consider signing for what he was worth in terms of win production. You seem to think I did but I did not.

and we come full cirlce a second time. I know you have said many times in many threads the players you would get, but I would love to see your "really" good starting lineup using the Melo money. Keep in mind you can only choose players who have been signed as FAs as that is the market you would be participating in.

Youre asked this quite a bit... I know you would have let him walk and easily signed more eff% and bettter players for lower cost. Love to know who there are. Who is in this vast pool of players that you view as available and viable options?

I don't do this for a living and wouldn't be nearly as good as someone who does. But I have pointed out guys like JJ Reddick, Paul Milsap, James Harden, Kyle Korver, and more. I would have kept Tyson unless a great deal came along, and kept draft picks (great value) unless someone truly worth giving up picks for (like in a Harden trade) was available. You can't build a team only on FAs, though, obviously, and the point of cap room is to facilitate trades too. So your question about only FAs is strange. The answer to your question also depends on what point in time you want to go back to. I never wanted Melo or Amare at their prices, and so we would have had far more cap space and assets to make trades. Although I can tell that giving Melo the largest contract on the planet is bad value, it would make more sense to ask people like Stephen Shea who have written books on the topic than me what the best available players for their prices are (or read what they have already written).

Hey dude, I see that you stay away from the shot chart / efficiency like the plague.

Afraid to get your hands dirty? Or you don't have the time? Or both?

Don't be so lazy :-)

What do you mean? Those guys I listed are efficient

I am talking about in the other threads where I am trying to argue with the wall about long 2's and etc ...

Do you just look at the final eff numbers or do you look / read trends in regards to shot charts / shot selection, patterns, offensive coaching philosophy, etc ...

A little bit about shot charts.
Yeah, I agree with you about the long 2 being a terrible shot

it would be nice to discuss things like this stuff as opposed to regurgitating the melo signing which is sad aint changing.

The geeks have blown this open and it is changing the game (though purists don't like it).

The data is fascinating ... which UKers would devote more time to fun stuff like this instead of melo talk, trade machine fantasies that will never happen, things that are irrelevant and that can/will never happen, etc ..., all the fantasy GM stuff ...

The geeks don't spend time playing with trade machines. They are doing statistical analysis that is changing every ones game.

This this this

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This this THIS

tHiS ThIS thIs ThiS

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Yes, Melo adds nothing because everyone knows people will pay good coin to watch

Jason Smith on Broadway.

I don't think anyone on this planet ever said that Melo wasn't marketable

just not worth the market

Oh, he's probably very much worth the market in terms of profits, just not in terms of winning. When I say not worth the market, I'm talking about winning not about lining Dolan's pockets.

and we come full cirlce once again. Your market doesnt exist. Its pretend. Make believe. If you want to cling to that cool... but it has very little relevence in NBA team building. Yours is a number on a spread sheet. Mine is what determines who, when and for how much you can get certain players on your team for. If you want to ignore that real # and focus on your imaginary # your not really bringing much to the discussion.

*Thinking* of Melo as a $16mm a year player is a waste of thought. Might at well *think* of Jessica Alba waking you up in the morning with a kiss and tug. Neither have any basis in reality, however the Alba thought will start your day in happier state of mind.

You can get a great starting lineup for only a little more than Melo. A world in which Melo would accept a lower salary obviously doesn't exist though. That's why I said numerous times I would have traded him before free agency and said numerous times during the summer that the least bad option would be to let him walk. I never expected him to sign or even consider signing for what he was worth in terms of win production. You seem to think I did but I did not.

and we come full cirlce a second time. I know you have said many times in many threads the players you would get, but I would love to see your "really" good starting lineup using the Melo money. Keep in mind you can only choose players who have been signed as FAs as that is the market you would be participating in.

Youre asked this quite a bit... I know you would have let him walk and easily signed more eff% and bettter players for lower cost. Love to know who there are. Who is in this vast pool of players that you view as available and viable options?

I don't do this for a living and wouldn't be nearly as good as someone who does. But I have pointed out guys like JJ Reddick, Paul Milsap, James Harden, Kyle Korver, and more. I would have kept Tyson unless a great deal came along, and kept draft picks (great value) unless someone truly worth giving up picks for (like in a Harden trade) was available. You can't build a team only on FAs, though, obviously, and the point of cap room is to facilitate trades too. So your question about only FAs is strange. The answer to your question also depends on what point in time you want to go back to. I never wanted Melo or Amare at their prices, and so we would have had far more cap space and assets to make trades. Although I can tell that giving Melo the largest contract on the planet is bad value, it would make more sense to ask people like Stephen Shea who have written books on the topic than me what the best available players for their prices are (or read what they have already written).

Hey dude, I see that you stay away from the shot chart / efficiency like the plague.

Afraid to get your hands dirty? Or you don't have the time? Or both?

Don't be so lazy :-)

What do you mean? Those guys I listed are efficient

I am talking about in the other threads where I am trying to argue with the wall about long 2's and etc ...

Do you just look at the final eff numbers or do you look / read trends in regards to shot charts / shot selection, patterns, offensive coaching philosophy, etc ...

A little bit about shot charts.
Yeah, I agree with you about the long 2 being a terrible shot

it would be nice to discuss things like this stuff as opposed to regurgitating the melo signing which is sad aint changing.

The geeks have blown this open and it is changing the game (though purists don't like it).

The data is fascinating ... which UKers would devote more time to fun stuff like this instead of melo talk, trade machine fantasies that will never happen, things that are irrelevant and that can/will never happen, etc ..., all the fantasy GM stuff ...

The geeks don't spend time playing with trade machines. They are doing statistical analysis that is changing every ones game.

Wow. And all I said was Melo's marketability certainly attributes something to the Knicks estimated value.
Unless of course you'd like to say SanTone is worth $1 billion now because the weather is so nice.
Stars and/or Winning = good business.

I wonder if the Russian is whining over his Brooklyn Barclays investment? Did he project even greater profits than what happened?

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Yes, Melo adds nothing because everyone knows people will pay good coin to watch

Jason Smith on Broadway.

I don't think anyone on this planet ever said that Melo wasn't marketable

just not worth the market

Oh, he's probably very much worth the market in terms of profits, just not in terms of winning. When I say not worth the market, I'm talking about winning not about lining Dolan's pockets.

and we come full cirlce once again. Your market doesnt exist. Its pretend. Make believe. If you want to cling to that cool... but it has very little relevence in NBA team building. Yours is a number on a spread sheet. Mine is what determines who, when and for how much you can get certain players on your team for. If you want to ignore that real # and focus on your imaginary # your not really bringing much to the discussion.

*Thinking* of Melo as a $16mm a year player is a waste of thought. Might at well *think* of Jessica Alba waking you up in the morning with a kiss and tug. Neither have any basis in reality, however the Alba thought will start your day in happier state of mind.

You can get a great starting lineup for only a little more than Melo. A world in which Melo would accept a lower salary obviously doesn't exist though. That's why I said numerous times I would have traded him before free agency and said numerous times during the summer that the least bad option would be to let him walk. I never expected him to sign or even consider signing for what he was worth in terms of win production. You seem to think I did but I did not.

and we come full cirlce a second time. I know you have said many times in many threads the players you would get, but I would love to see your "really" good starting lineup using the Melo money. Keep in mind you can only choose players who have been signed as FAs as that is the market you would be participating in.

Youre asked this quite a bit... I know you would have let him walk and easily signed more eff% and bettter players for lower cost. Love to know who there are. Who is in this vast pool of players that you view as available and viable options?

I don't do this for a living and wouldn't be nearly as good as someone who does. But I have pointed out guys like JJ Reddick, Paul Milsap, James Harden, Kyle Korver, and more. I would have kept Tyson unless a great deal came along, and kept draft picks (great value) unless someone truly worth giving up picks for (like in a Harden trade) was available. You can't build a team only on FAs, though, obviously, and the point of cap room is to facilitate trades too. So your question about only FAs is strange. The answer to your question also depends on what point in time you want to go back to. I never wanted Melo or Amare at their prices, and so we would have had far more cap space and assets to make trades. Although I can tell that giving Melo the largest contract on the planet is bad value, it would make more sense to ask people like Stephen Shea who have written books on the topic than me what the best available players for their prices are (or read what they have already written).

Hey dude, I see that you stay away from the shot chart / efficiency like the plague.

Afraid to get your hands dirty? Or you don't have the time? Or both?

Don't be so lazy :-)

What do you mean? Those guys I listed are efficient

I am talking about in the other threads where I am trying to argue with the wall about long 2's and etc ...

Do you just look at the final eff numbers or do you look / read trends in regards to shot charts / shot selection, patterns, offensive coaching philosophy, etc ...

A little bit about shot charts.
Yeah, I agree with you about the long 2 being a terrible shot

it would be nice to discuss things like this stuff as opposed to regurgitating the melo signing which is sad aint changing.

The geeks have blown this open and it is changing the game (though purists don't like it).

The data is fascinating ... which UKers would devote more time to fun stuff like this instead of melo talk, trade machine fantasies that will never happen, things that are irrelevant and that can/will never happen, etc ..., all the fantasy GM stuff ...

The geeks don't spend time playing with trade machines. They are doing statistical analysis that is changing every ones game.

Wow. And all I said was Melo's marketability certainly attributes something to the Knicks estimated value.
Unless of course you'd like to say SanTone is worth $1 billion now because the weather is so nice.
Stars and/or Winning = good business.

I wonder if the Russian is whining over his Brooklyn Barclays investment? Did he project even greater profits than what happened?

Any serious rebuilding requires putting immediate profits below long-term financial well-being on the part of the owner. Many owners have been willing to do this. Maybe some day we'll have Knicks team run by such an owner.

Yeah, and maybe it will be 72 degrees and sunny in NYC in February...and all those 8 million overcrowded people will move to the suburbs...think of all the parking space! ...and it will be free to go over all the bridges to see games...and...

Funny, in most high profile metro business plans, you either grow immediately or die off. When has this franchise ever been truly serious about rebuilding?

Plan A: Hate Melo
Plan B: Hate Dolan
lather, rinse, repeat.