Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:The problem I have with this and many other similar articles is the pessimistic tone.

The problem, nixluva, that you seem to ignore, even when it's shoved right in your face, is that this team and franchise needs a direction.

Philly has a direction. Tank and keep taking, amass assets, try to push forward their young talent and then try to get them to gel together while still on their rookie deals. Will it work? Will it not? Either way, it's a direction, the entire franchise is moving in the same direction from top to bottom. At least Philly fans can say they can see a plan in place that makes sense from a timetable and asset standpoint and how the league is structured in terms of the draft and free agency.

New York has NO DIRECTION. Tanking and rebuilding from the ground up is one thing. Trying to make a playoff push is another. Picking neither or picking one then ending up with the other by coincidence is not a plan. Melo makes this a treadmill team. The Chandler trade, even if it worked, would have made this a treadmill team. A team stuck on the fringes of that 8th playoff spot or that dreaded 9th spot with no real chance to get better.

You call people too negative but this is clearly a negative situation. Not making a choice is making a choice, often it's worse than picking Direction A or Direction B. At least in one of those cases, you have momentum and a trajectory and something to sell to your fans.

Tanking because your effort to make a push blew up in your face is not a sign of an organization that has a cohesive plan in place.

Nothing you conjure up fixes the timetable vs development vs assets problem nixluva. In order to build a roster around Melo, you need to use the draft. With no 2016 pick, and with picks actually needing time to develop, your "help" for Melo will arrive, if at all, when his contract ends and when he's out of what's left of his prime playing ability/years. Every other instance of getting him help on this spiraling franchise will likely mean a free agent overpay, which will doom the roster to the same kind of problems it's had for the last 15 years. Do you think the Dallas Cowboys really wanted to trade their only marketable and franchise player in Herschel Walker? They did it because of the assets vs development vs timetable issue.

You want to put a "label" on a type of tone? Well here it is son. You ignore things you don't want to hear or don't like. You don't fully understand the way the cap works or even consider what other people have to say unless it lines up to your viewpoint. You don't own any of the things you've said before previously. Then you talk down to everyone like they are stupid because they remember your needling hack job predictions. Then you blame everyone else when they have the audacity to have opinions of their own. I know an entire group of our population who act just like you. They are called women. The problem you have is you are in a room full of men, who think like men, and you act like a woman.

We have direction. Plan A: tinker with the roster and try to make the playoffs, then try to recruit a top FA like Gasol. Didn't work out so we're onto Plan B (clear salary, tank for a top pick, build in piece meal fashion). Use the remains of this system to see which players can play the triangle and be our bench for next year. Is that really hard to understand? Sixers have no direction- they tank, draft, then want to trade the players they just drafted, so they can tank more and draft. That ain't direction.

and higher a mediocre player as a mediocre coach

So "tanking and drafting" counts as a direction for us but not for Philly? Regarding "trading drafted players," I don't think any team does that more than us.

Not to mention that Plan A was a complete, unmitigated disaster. Phil's tinkering that was supposed to make this a playoff team turned a 37-win team into a team on pace to win 10 games.

Yeah, "Plan B" isn't really a plan. It's the league's safety net for teams that completely screw up

That they almost had a new resolution to be implemented

Going forward to stop purposeful Plan B tactics or caring about the Plan B accidental tactics

The wheel at first ruling was denied by League ownerships this past summer

But could return when modified or tweaked with some slight variations

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:The problem I have with this and many other similar articles is the pessimistic tone.

The problem, nixluva, that you seem to ignore, even when it's shoved right in your face, is that this team and franchise needs a direction.

Philly has a direction. Tank and keep taking, amass assets, try to push forward their young talent and then try to get them to gel together while still on their rookie deals. Will it work? Will it not? Either way, it's a direction, the entire franchise is moving in the same direction from top to bottom. At least Philly fans can say they can see a plan in place that makes sense from a timetable and asset standpoint and how the league is structured in terms of the draft and free agency.

New York has NO DIRECTION. Tanking and rebuilding from the ground up is one thing. Trying to make a playoff push is another. Picking neither or picking one then ending up with the other by coincidence is not a plan. Melo makes this a treadmill team. The Chandler trade, even if it worked, would have made this a treadmill team. A team stuck on the fringes of that 8th playoff spot or that dreaded 9th spot with no real chance to get better.

You call people too negative but this is clearly a negative situation. Not making a choice is making a choice, often it's worse than picking Direction A or Direction B. At least in one of those cases, you have momentum and a trajectory and something to sell to your fans.

Tanking because your effort to make a push blew up in your face is not a sign of an organization that has a cohesive plan in place.

Nothing you conjure up fixes the timetable vs development vs assets problem nixluva. In order to build a roster around Melo, you need to use the draft. With no 2016 pick, and with picks actually needing time to develop, your "help" for Melo will arrive, if at all, when his contract ends and when he's out of what's left of his prime playing ability/years. Every other instance of getting him help on this spiraling franchise will likely mean a free agent overpay, which will doom the roster to the same kind of problems it's had for the last 15 years. Do you think the Dallas Cowboys really wanted to trade their only marketable and franchise player in Herschel Walker? They did it because of the assets vs development vs timetable issue.

You want to put a "label" on a type of tone? Well here it is son. You ignore things you don't want to hear or don't like. You don't fully understand the way the cap works or even consider what other people have to say unless it lines up to your viewpoint. You don't own any of the things you've said before previously. Then you talk down to everyone like they are stupid because they remember your needling hack job predictions. Then you blame everyone else when they have the audacity to have opinions of their own. I know an entire group of our population who act just like you. They are called women. The problem you have is you are in a room full of men, who think like men, and you act like a woman.

We have direction. Plan A: tinker with the roster and try to make the playoffs, then try to recruit a top FA like Gasol. Didn't work out so we're onto Plan B (clear salary, tank for a top pick, build in piece meal fashion). Use the remains of this system to see which players can play the triangle and be our bench for next year. Is that really hard to understand? Sixers have no direction- they tank, draft, then want to trade the players they just drafted, so they can tank more and draft. That ain't direction.

and higher a mediocre player as a mediocre coach

A lot of mediocre players become great coaches. Fisher certainly appeared to have the pedigree to be successful. He has been a part of teams that won championships. He is a good communicator and has been in a leadership role in the past. How different would things be if Kerr were in Ny? How different would things be in Golden State if Fish was there? Also, was Kerr more than a mediocre player?

Kerr here would be miles better and fish in GS would make them a bit worse.

Kerr was a much much better and smarter player.

Really. You think Kerr has this team winning more? What do you think his record would be? The Knicks essentially are running their summer league squad plus Calderon out there every night. (Opps, forgot about Amundson and Thomas).

Yeah ... I think that if kerr was here then Melo would be playing and they would be a 25 win team.

Strange that every player is having their worst season.

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:Kerr here would be miles better and fish in GS would make them a bit worse.

Kerr was a much much better and smarter player.

Really. You think Kerr has this team winning more? What do you think his record would be? The Knicks essentially are running their summer league squad plus Calderon out there every night. (Opps, forgot about Amundson and Thomas).

Small insight to take away when it comes to Kerr

Although Phil made the Mavs trade before hiring Kerr

Maybe he would have been the voice of veto

As Phil contemplated the move, maybe he would have

Valued Tyson differently of figured his role

Would hold greater value under his tutelage

Or the voice of veto when Phil

Contemplated moving Shump with Smith for a 2019 2nd pick

Keep in mind Kerr was one of the leading voices

In the Warriors organization against trading Klay Thompson for Kevin Love

So from a forward thinking mindset one could deduce that

Maybe Kerr sees the game from a much deeper perspective than what's on the surface

Of course his Coaching proof will surface in the Playoff pudding

smackeddog wrote:Can I ask at this point what the hell you are all whinging for? You all wanted us to tank and get a high pick, now we're doing. SUCK IT UP! You all wanted Shump and JR gone, now they are gone.

Do you want us to win more games this season?

Do you want us to lose more games this season and try and get as high a pick as possible?

smackeddog wrote:Can I ask at this point what the hell you are all whinging for? You all wanted us to tank and get a high pick, now we're doing. SUCK IT UP! You all wanted Shump and JR gone, now they are gone.

Do you want us to win more games this season?

Do you want us to lose more games this season and try and get as high a pick as possible?

don't care about the losing. I care about the kind of basketball we are playing.

F500ONE wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Can I ask at this point what the hell you are all whinging for? You all wanted us to tank and get a high pick, now we're doing. SUCK IT UP! You all wanted Shump and JR gone, now they are gone.

Do you want us to win more games this season?

Do you want us to lose more games this season and try and get as high a pick as possible?

The point we're debating is the team

Doesn't know how to execute it's own plans

And very well could mess things up going forward

There are still important, pivotal decisions that can be made or not made

Contributing toward future success and we're still seeing

Head scratching things transpire or not transpire

Of course it could go wrong. But at this point what else can Phil do- you fire Fish now, then we win more games (the new coach bump), you scrap the triangle, you win more games just because occasionally players will get hot shooting the 3s. More wins= worse draft pick. We've cleared all the salary (apart from Calderon) that we can for now. You want Melo traded you have to wait until the offseason and pray Bulls do a S&T with Butler.

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:The problem I have with this and many other similar articles is the pessimistic tone.

The problem, nixluva, that you seem to ignore, even when it's shoved right in your face, is that this team and franchise needs a direction.

Philly has a direction. Tank and keep taking, amass assets, try to push forward their young talent and then try to get them to gel together while still on their rookie deals. Will it work? Will it not? Either way, it's a direction, the entire franchise is moving in the same direction from top to bottom. At least Philly fans can say they can see a plan in place that makes sense from a timetable and asset standpoint and how the league is structured in terms of the draft and free agency.

New York has NO DIRECTION. Tanking and rebuilding from the ground up is one thing. Trying to make a playoff push is another. Picking neither or picking one then ending up with the other by coincidence is not a plan. Melo makes this a treadmill team. The Chandler trade, even if it worked, would have made this a treadmill team. A team stuck on the fringes of that 8th playoff spot or that dreaded 9th spot with no real chance to get better.

You call people too negative but this is clearly a negative situation. Not making a choice is making a choice, often it's worse than picking Direction A or Direction B. At least in one of those cases, you have momentum and a trajectory and something to sell to your fans.

Tanking because your effort to make a push blew up in your face is not a sign of an organization that has a cohesive plan in place.

Nothing you conjure up fixes the timetable vs development vs assets problem nixluva. In order to build a roster around Melo, you need to use the draft. With no 2016 pick, and with picks actually needing time to develop, your "help" for Melo will arrive, if at all, when his contract ends and when he's out of what's left of his prime playing ability/years. Every other instance of getting him help on this spiraling franchise will likely mean a free agent overpay, which will doom the roster to the same kind of problems it's had for the last 15 years. Do you think the Dallas Cowboys really wanted to trade their only marketable and franchise player in Herschel Walker? They did it because of the assets vs development vs timetable issue.

You want to put a "label" on a type of tone? Well here it is son. You ignore things you don't want to hear or don't like. You don't fully understand the way the cap works or even consider what other people have to say unless it lines up to your viewpoint. You don't own any of the things you've said before previously. Then you talk down to everyone like they are stupid because they remember your needling hack job predictions. Then you blame everyone else when they have the audacity to have opinions of their own. I know an entire group of our population who act just like you. They are called women. The problem you have is you are in a room full of men, who think like men, and you act like a woman.

We have direction. Plan A: tinker with the roster and try to make the playoffs, then try to recruit a top FA like Gasol. Didn't work out so we're onto Plan B (clear salary, tank for a top pick, build in piece meal fashion). Use the remains of this system to see which players can play the triangle and be our bench for next year. Is that really hard to understand? Sixers have no direction- they tank, draft, then want to trade the players they just drafted, so they can tank more and draft. That ain't direction.

and higher a mediocre player as a mediocre coach

A lot of mediocre players become great coaches. Fisher certainly appeared to have the pedigree to be successful. He has been a part of teams that won championships. He is a good communicator and has been in a leadership role in the past. How different would things be if Kerr were in Ny? How different would things be in Golden State if Fish was there? Also, was Kerr more than a mediocre player?

Kerr here would be miles better and fish in GS would make them a bit worse.

Kerr was a much much better and smarter player.

Really. You think Kerr has this team winning more? What do you think his record would be? The Knicks essentially are running their summer league squad plus Calderon out there every night. (Opps, forgot about Amundson and Thomas).

Yeah ... I think that if kerr was here then Melo would be playing and they would be a 25 win team.

Strange that every player is having their worst season.

I agree that a healthy Melo adds to the win total. But 20 more wins. Not in the triangle. Also, are you questioning Melo's injury? Just wondering as I have read/heard guys that cover the team say their sources say it is legit and that he needs surgery.

yeah ... I think that if this was a competitive team, he would be playing. No reason for him to play for a 5 win team (unless prince harry is watching)

And, the exact number of wins that we would have with kerr is hard to predict but the point is that I think that Kerr is going to be a very good to great coach in this league while I think that Fisher will be a dud.

I also think that Kerr may have had no interest in this stupid triangle.

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:The problem I have with this and many other similar articles is the pessimistic tone.

The problem, nixluva, that you seem to ignore, even when it's shoved right in your face, is that this team and franchise needs a direction.

Philly has a direction. Tank and keep taking, amass assets, try to push forward their young talent and then try to get them to gel together while still on their rookie deals. Will it work? Will it not? Either way, it's a direction, the entire franchise is moving in the same direction from top to bottom. At least Philly fans can say they can see a plan in place that makes sense from a timetable and asset standpoint and how the league is structured in terms of the draft and free agency.

New York has NO DIRECTION. Tanking and rebuilding from the ground up is one thing. Trying to make a playoff push is another. Picking neither or picking one then ending up with the other by coincidence is not a plan. Melo makes this a treadmill team. The Chandler trade, even if it worked, would have made this a treadmill team. A team stuck on the fringes of that 8th playoff spot or that dreaded 9th spot with no real chance to get better.

You call people too negative but this is clearly a negative situation. Not making a choice is making a choice, often it's worse than picking Direction A or Direction B. At least in one of those cases, you have momentum and a trajectory and something to sell to your fans.

Tanking because your effort to make a push blew up in your face is not a sign of an organization that has a cohesive plan in place.

Nothing you conjure up fixes the timetable vs development vs assets problem nixluva. In order to build a roster around Melo, you need to use the draft. With no 2016 pick, and with picks actually needing time to develop, your "help" for Melo will arrive, if at all, when his contract ends and when he's out of what's left of his prime playing ability/years. Every other instance of getting him help on this spiraling franchise will likely mean a free agent overpay, which will doom the roster to the same kind of problems it's had for the last 15 years. Do you think the Dallas Cowboys really wanted to trade their only marketable and franchise player in Herschel Walker? They did it because of the assets vs development vs timetable issue.

You want to put a "label" on a type of tone? Well here it is son. You ignore things you don't want to hear or don't like. You don't fully understand the way the cap works or even consider what other people have to say unless it lines up to your viewpoint. You don't own any of the things you've said before previously. Then you talk down to everyone like they are stupid because they remember your needling hack job predictions. Then you blame everyone else when they have the audacity to have opinions of their own. I know an entire group of our population who act just like you. They are called women. The problem you have is you are in a room full of men, who think like men, and you act like a woman.

We have direction. Plan A: tinker with the roster and try to make the playoffs, then try to recruit a top FA like Gasol. Didn't work out so we're onto Plan B (clear salary, tank for a top pick, build in piece meal fashion). Use the remains of this system to see which players can play the triangle and be our bench for next year. Is that really hard to understand? Sixers have no direction- they tank, draft, then want to trade the players they just drafted, so they can tank more and draft. That ain't direction.

and higher a mediocre player as a mediocre coach

A lot of mediocre players become great coaches. Fisher certainly appeared to have the pedigree to be successful. He has been a part of teams that won championships. He is a good communicator and has been in a leadership role in the past. How different would things be if Kerr were in Ny? How different would things be in Golden State if Fish was there? Also, was Kerr more than a mediocre player?

Kerr here would be miles better and fish in GS would make them a bit worse.

Kerr was a much much better and smarter player.

Really. You think Kerr has this team winning more? What do you think his record would be? The Knicks essentially are running their summer league squad plus Calderon out there every night. (Opps, forgot about Amundson and Thomas).

Yeah ... I think that if kerr was here then Melo would be playing and they would be a 25 win team.

Strange that every player is having their worst season.

And how would being a 25 win team be better for us exactly?

it wouldn't. if the goal is to tank (really was not the goal), then fisher is the best coach in the league (for tanking).

and better to tank then to have bone heads run this 1960's triangle.

So, I believe, that instructions from above (for tank purposes of course) are:

1. take as many mid range shots as possible (by jason smith preferably)
2. no free throws under any circumstances
3. if you MUST take a three, close your eyes before shooting
4. don't you dare guard any 3 point shots
5. make sure that Melo shoots when he gets doubled and triple teamed
6. have shrink fuk up calderon's brain so that he no longer can shoot
7. play Jason Smith for 48 minutes

VCoug wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Can I ask at this point what the hell you are all whinging for? You all wanted us to tank and get a high pick, now we're doing. SUCK IT UP! You all wanted Shump and JR gone, now they are gone.

Do you want us to win more games this season?

Do you want us to lose more games this season and try and get as high a pick as possible?

I want us to pick the only strategy that ever works: Very efficiently using every penny of cap space. Right now, Melo plus 4 league min players costs almost the same as the entire Hawks or Spurs starting lineup.

Also, Melo turns 31 this season and whoever we draft is almost certainly going to take several years to develop. I don't believe our strategy has really changed, we're still looking at making a splash in free agency this Summer. We just happen to be tanking because Phil ****ed up so badly this Summer and we have no other choice.

correct!!

you don't sign melo to that ridiculous contract and say we are in tank mode.