Bonn1997 wrote:

He could have left us with possibly worse than what we are already experiencing because we were going to be getting nothing back

Not true. We'd be getting $25 mil per year in cap space back, which is not that much less than the entire Hawks' or Spurs' starting lineups ($30s mil each).

If the Hawks and Spurs starting lineup is 30 mil each..Why is the question from you NEVER what are the Knick doing with additional 33 mil of cap space beyond Melo??

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

He could have left us with possibly worse than what we are already experiencing because we were going to be getting nothing back

Not true. We'd be getting $25 mil per year in cap space back, which is not that much less than the entire Hawks' or Spurs' starting lineups ($30s mil each).

If the Hawks and Spurs starting lineup is 30 mil each..Why is the question from you NEVER what are the Knick doing with additional 33 mil of cap space beyond Melo??

Melo Cap Space is a deterrent to quality players. Everyone who follows stratometrics knows that.

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

He could have left us with possibly worse than what we are already experiencing because we were going to be getting nothing back

Not true. We'd be getting $25 mil per year in cap space back, which is not that much less than the entire Hawks' or Spurs' starting lineups ($30s mil each).

If the Hawks and Spurs starting lineup is 30 mil each..Why is the question from you NEVER what are the Knick doing with additional 33 mil of cap space beyond Melo??

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

He could have left us with possibly worse than what we are already experiencing because we were going to be getting nothing back

Not true. We'd be getting $25 mil per year in cap space back, which is not that much less than the entire Hawks' or Spurs' starting lineups ($30s mil each).

If the Hawks and Spurs starting lineup is 30 mil each..Why is the question from you NEVER what are the Knick doing with additional 33 mil of cap space beyond Melo??

A) I don't think we're going to have that much money
B) Even if your figure is right, that leaves no room for building a bench
C) It also leaves no room for error. We'd have go like 5 for 5 in free agent signings and drafting. And I'm not talking about just 5 "good" signings. They're going to have each be grand slams.

This reasoning does not make sense. The figure is about $30 million of free space to work with in addition to Melo and without any significant increases to the cap limit. Your contention is that a contending roster can be built for $30 million but that it will take time. Why focus so much on Melo's cap hit then? It is likely the Knicks start the building process in addition to having Melo and not with him as a cap deterrent. If the building process takes another 3-4 years as you seem to suggest , he will be gone after that and his cap hit can then be used incrementally above the 30 million....not incuding the projected significant cap increases due to the new TV contract.

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:I'll phrase it another way..At the end of last year the Knicks fielded at team that was 80 mil in total salary of which Melo was 24 mil...So based on your price discovery of the Spurs and Hawks, the Knick can't field a decent starting lineup and bench with 56 mil??

Did I ever say the team can't be decent? Are you purposely making a straw man argument?

As opposed to making your original argument that the cap space recieved from Melo leaving is more valuable than the cap space we'd have with Melo here?

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

He could have left us with possibly worse than what we are already experiencing because we were going to be getting nothing back

Not true. We'd be getting $25 mil per year in cap space back, which is not that much less than the entire Hawks' or Spurs' starting lineups ($30s mil each).

If the Hawks and Spurs starting lineup is 30 mil each..Why is the question from you NEVER what are the Knick doing with additional 33 mil of cap space beyond Melo??

A) I don't think we're going to have that much money
B) Even if your figure is right, that leaves no room for building a bench
C) It also leaves no room for error. We'd have go like 5 for 5 in free agent signings and drafting. And I'm not talking about just 5 "good" signings. They're going to have each be grand slams.

This reasoning does not make sense. The figure is about $30 million of free space to work with in addition to Melo and without any significant increases to the cap limit. Your contention is that a contending roster can be built for $30 million but that it will take time. Why focus so much on Melo's cap hit then? It is likely the Knicks start the building process in addition to having Melo and not with him as a cap deterrent. If the building process takes another 3-4 years as you seem to suggest , he will be gone after that and his cap hit can then be used incrementally above the 30 million....not incuding the projected significant cap increases due to the new TV contract.

No, a contending starting lineup (not whole roster) can, but it's more like 35 mil. But it probably takes at least $60 mil in spending to get that 35 mil starting lineup because some of it (let's just say 25 mil) won't work out as planned. We already used up all that "won't work out as planned" portion, though.

I agree that not every roster move will work out and there will be churn and turnover within the rebuild. However let's assume starting next year the revamp takes 3 plus years.....there will likely be extra cap space above the 30 mil to play with due to projected increases and Melo will come off the books the following year. Not saying this is qthe most ideal path....but it is workable.

we need to trade him while he still has value and is not officially injured.

we don't need to wait until his body breaks down and sucks the value out of him.

foosballnick wrote:

mreinman wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

He could have left us with possibly worse than what we are already experiencing because we were going to be getting nothing back

Not true. We'd be getting $25 mil per year in cap space back, which is not that much less than the entire Hawks' or Spurs' starting lineups ($30s mil each).

If the Hawks and Spurs starting lineup is 30 mil each..Why is the question from you NEVER what are the Knick doing with additional 33 mil of cap space beyond Melo??

A) I don't think we're going to have that much money
B) Even if your figure is right, that leaves no room for building a bench
C) It also leaves no room for error. We'd have go like 5 for 5 in free agent signings and drafting. And I'm not talking about just 5 "good" signings. They're going to have each be grand slams.

This reasoning does not make sense. The figure is about $30 million of free space to work with in addition to Melo and without any significant increases to the cap limit. Your contention is that a contending roster can be built for $30 million but that it will take time. Why focus so much on Melo's cap hit then? It is likely the Knicks start the building process in addition to having Melo and not with him as a cap deterrent. If the building process takes another 3-4 years as you seem to suggest , he will be gone after that and his cap hit can then be used incrementally above the 30 million....not incuding the projected significant cap increases due to the new TV contract.

No, a contending starting lineup (not whole roster) can, but it's more like 35 mil. But it probably takes at least $60 mil in spending to get that 35 mil starting lineup because some of it (let's just say 25 mil) won't work out as planned. We already used up all that "won't work out as planned" portion, though.

I agree that not every roster move will work out and there will be churn and turnover within the rebuild. However let's assume starting next year the revamp takes 3 plus years.....there will likely be extra cap space above the 30 mil to play with due to projected increases and Melo will come off the books the following year. Not saying this is qthe most ideal path....but it is workable.

we need to trade him while he still has value and is not officially injured.

we don't need to wait until his body breaks down and sucks the value out of him.

Melo's no trade clause will mean he controls any destination and likely he can only get traded to a contender or a great situation.

so lets try to trade him to a contender. I am sure that Phil is gonna at least try this off season.

mreinman wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

mreinman wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

He could have left us with possibly worse than what we are already experiencing because we were going to be getting nothing back

Not true. We'd be getting $25 mil per year in cap space back, which is not that much less than the entire Hawks' or Spurs' starting lineups ($30s mil each).

If the Hawks and Spurs starting lineup is 30 mil each..Why is the question from you NEVER what are the Knick doing with additional 33 mil of cap space beyond Melo??

A) I don't think we're going to have that much money
B) Even if your figure is right, that leaves no room for building a bench
C) It also leaves no room for error. We'd have go like 5 for 5 in free agent signings and drafting. And I'm not talking about just 5 "good" signings. They're going to have each be grand slams.

This reasoning does not make sense. The figure is about $30 million of free space to work with in addition to Melo and without any significant increases to the cap limit. Your contention is that a contending roster can be built for $30 million but that it will take time. Why focus so much on Melo's cap hit then? It is likely the Knicks start the building process in addition to having Melo and not with him as a cap deterrent. If the building process takes another 3-4 years as you seem to suggest , he will be gone after that and his cap hit can then be used incrementally above the 30 million....not incuding the projected significant cap increases due to the new TV contract.

No, a contending starting lineup (not whole roster) can, but it's more like 35 mil. But it probably takes at least $60 mil in spending to get that 35 mil starting lineup because some of it (let's just say 25 mil) won't work out as planned. We already used up all that "won't work out as planned" portion, though.

I agree that not every roster move will work out and there will be churn and turnover within the rebuild. However let's assume starting next year the revamp takes 3 plus years.....there will likely be extra cap space above the 30 mil to play with due to projected increases and Melo will come off the books the following year. Not saying this is qthe most ideal path....but it is workable.

we need to trade him while he still has value and is not officially injured.

we don't need to wait until his body breaks down and sucks the value out of him.

Melo's no trade clause will mean he controls any destination and likely he can only get traded to a contender or a great situation.

so lets try to trade him to a contender. I am sure that Phil is gonna at least try this off season.

earthmansurfer wrote:

mreinman wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

mreinman wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

He could have left us with possibly worse than what we are already experiencing because we were going to be getting nothing back

Not true. We'd be getting $25 mil per year in cap space back, which is not that much less than the entire Hawks' or Spurs' starting lineups ($30s mil each).

If the Hawks and Spurs starting lineup is 30 mil each..Why is the question from you NEVER what are the Knick doing with additional 33 mil of cap space beyond Melo??

A) I don't think we're going to have that much money
B) Even if your figure is right, that leaves no room for building a bench
C) It also leaves no room for error. We'd have go like 5 for 5 in free agent signings and drafting. And I'm not talking about just 5 "good" signings. They're going to have each be grand slams.

This reasoning does not make sense. The figure is about $30 million of free space to work with in addition to Melo and without any significant increases to the cap limit. Your contention is that a contending roster can be built for $30 million but that it will take time. Why focus so much on Melo's cap hit then? It is likely the Knicks start the building process in addition to having Melo and not with him as a cap deterrent. If the building process takes another 3-4 years as you seem to suggest , he will be gone after that and his cap hit can then be used incrementally above the 30 million....not incuding the projected significant cap increases due to the new TV contract.

No, a contending starting lineup (not whole roster) can, but it's more like 35 mil. But it probably takes at least $60 mil in spending to get that 35 mil starting lineup because some of it (let's just say 25 mil) won't work out as planned. We already used up all that "won't work out as planned" portion, though.

I agree that not every roster move will work out and there will be churn and turnover within the rebuild. However let's assume starting next year the revamp takes 3 plus years.....there will likely be extra cap space above the 30 mil to play with due to projected increases and Melo will come off the books the following year. Not saying this is qthe most ideal path....but it is workable.

we need to trade him while he still has value and is not officially injured.

we don't need to wait until his body breaks down and sucks the value out of him.

Melo's no trade clause will mean he controls any destination and likely he can only get traded to a contender or a great situation.

so lets try to trade him to a contender. I am sure that Phil is gonna at least try this off season.

Interesting situation coming up. If we strike out in FA, does Melo want to get moved then? I would think so.
If we don't strike out but don't hit a home run, does he want to get moved? I would also think so.
If we hit it big in FA and score well in the draft with Okafor, man, we can really compete.

Not having our pick next year imo, really complicates things (and for Bargs!!!). This city can't handle another top pick of theirs going to another team.

well ... I hope that phil makes smaller smart moves, not overpay for bigger riskier ones (e.g. max out monroe).

If he takes the former approach, maybe he can convince Melo that he won't be happy.

The main one he needs to convince is Jimmy because Melo makes him boat loads of cash.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

mreinman wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

mreinman wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

He could have left us with possibly worse than what we are already experiencing because we were going to be getting nothing back

Not true. We'd be getting $25 mil per year in cap space back, which is not that much less than the entire Hawks' or Spurs' starting lineups ($30s mil each).

If the Hawks and Spurs starting lineup is 30 mil each..Why is the question from you NEVER what are the Knick doing with additional 33 mil of cap space beyond Melo??

A) I don't think we're going to have that much money
B) Even if your figure is right, that leaves no room for building a bench
C) It also leaves no room for error. We'd have go like 5 for 5 in free agent signings and drafting. And I'm not talking about just 5 "good" signings. They're going to have each be grand slams.

This reasoning does not make sense. The figure is about $30 million of free space to work with in addition to Melo and without any significant increases to the cap limit. Your contention is that a contending roster can be built for $30 million but that it will take time. Why focus so much on Melo's cap hit then? It is likely the Knicks start the building process in addition to having Melo and not with him as a cap deterrent. If the building process takes another 3-4 years as you seem to suggest , he will be gone after that and his cap hit can then be used incrementally above the 30 million....not incuding the projected significant cap increases due to the new TV contract.

No, a contending starting lineup (not whole roster) can, but it's more like 35 mil. But it probably takes at least $60 mil in spending to get that 35 mil starting lineup because some of it (let's just say 25 mil) won't work out as planned. We already used up all that "won't work out as planned" portion, though.

I agree that not every roster move will work out and there will be churn and turnover within the rebuild. However let's assume starting next year the revamp takes 3 plus years.....there will likely be extra cap space above the 30 mil to play with due to projected increases and Melo will come off the books the following year. Not saying this is qthe most ideal path....but it is workable.

we need to trade him while he still has value and is not officially injured.

we don't need to wait until his body breaks down and sucks the value out of him.

Melo's no trade clause will mean he controls any destination and likely he can only get traded to a contender or a great situation.

so lets try to trade him to a contender. I am sure that Phil is gonna at least try this off season.

Interesting situation coming up. If we strike out in FA, does Melo want to get moved then? I would think so.
If we don't strike out but don't hit a home run, does he want to get moved? I would also think so.
If we hit it big in FA and score well in the draft with Okafor, man, we can really compete.

Not having our pick next year imo, really complicates things (and for Bargs!!!). This city can't handle another top pick of theirs going to another team.

well ... I hope that phil makes smaller smart moves, not overpay for bigger riskier ones (e.g. max out monroe).

If he takes the former approach, maybe he can convince Melo that he won't be happy.

The main one he needs to convince is Jimmy because Melo makes him boat loads of cash.

*and* because the trade kicker will cost Jimmy a ton of money
Trading him this year would be better for Dolan because it's the only year the trade kicker wouldn't occur (I think)

Yeah ... I read somewhere that if he will get rid of him then this is the summer to do it because of the kicker.

However, selfish melo may excersize his NT clause so he does not lose out on the kicker.

So happy he helped us out with that friendly contract.