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Lets say Melo gets surgey and hes good to go in 4 months
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fishmike
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1/15/2015  9:38 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:Thanks, Guns.

No true rebuild can begin until that overpriced, egotistical, cap hog is playing elsewhere.
We need to pop the pimple ASAP.

I think you guys see Melo in a wrong angle. He is a very good player at the right salary in the proper system I wouldn't go to far to say at times he can be great. I would only trade Melo for assests which will help the Knicks going forward.

That's how I would modify your statement. Almost every player can be good or bad depending on the salary.

well your "right salary" is nothing close to reality or market value so that pretty much kills the discussion. VMart is 100% correct from a straight up basketball sense simply saying that Melo is a good player and a valuable piece to have. The only thing that will really set us back is if he breaks down physically.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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KncksbigKATS
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1/15/2015  9:39 AM
Vmart wrote:
KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:Thanks, Guns.

No true rebuild can begin until that overpriced, egotistical, cap hog is playing elsewhere.
We need to pop the pimple ASAP.

I think you guys see Melo in a wrong angle. He is a very good player in the proper system I wouldn't go to far to say at times he can be great. I would only trade Melo for assests which will help the Knicks going forward.

I agree with Briggs that he should be told to shut it down and have the surgery now.
Are the inmates running the asylum?
And, once he is cleared to resume playing, of course he should be moved "for assets that help" "in the proper system"....wherever that is. Good luck finding that team. I don't like him as a player and I don't value him as highly as some of you here do. But, that's OK. There's a real divide when it comes to Melo....you either love him or hate him. There is no in between. I cannot root for him. I'm proud to be a hater b/c I am certain that he cannot settle for being an important piece in a winning environment. Time will prove the haters here right.

"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships." -Michael Jordan
Bonn1997
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1/15/2015  9:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/15/2015  9:57 AM
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:Thanks, Guns.

No true rebuild can begin until that overpriced, egotistical, cap hog is playing elsewhere.
We need to pop the pimple ASAP.

I think you guys see Melo in a wrong angle. He is a very good player at the right salary in the proper system I wouldn't go to far to say at times he can be great. I would only trade Melo for assests which will help the Knicks going forward.

That's how I would modify your statement. Almost every player can be good or bad depending on the salary.

well your "right salary" is nothing close to reality or market value so that pretty much kills the discussion. VMart is 100% correct from a straight up basketball sense simply saying that Melo is a good player and a valuable piece to have. The only thing that will really set us back is if he breaks down physically.


In a non-existent world where there are no salary restrictions, it makes sense to ignore cost and just look at production. In this world, Melo is a bad player if he has the largest contract on the planet. You seem to think we have to blindly follow the market and don't have the option to let players walk or trade them.
I'll add though that "the market" couldn't have possibly been higher than about 90 mil without a no-trade clause because no other team could give more than that.
gunsnewing
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1/15/2015  9:55 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/15/2015  9:56 AM
Right we paid $30mil over market value
Moonangie
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1/15/2015  10:02 AM
BRIGGS wrote:How about this trade with Minnesota

Pick lets say 3 or 4 pick 33 Chase Budinger Anthony Bennett for Melo. We take back 11mm in sht salary and they get a star who can come in and play with Rubio KeVin Martin Wiggins Mo Williams Pervoic--it makes them formidable right away. Melo plays with a good team he get another 10mm and we get a second high lottery pick and a high 2.

Put down the pipe, BRIGGS. No way in hell Melo would agree to go to Minny. Roflmao at the thought of LaLa shivering in the brutal winter cold.
fishmike
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1/15/2015  10:07 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:Thanks, Guns.

No true rebuild can begin until that overpriced, egotistical, cap hog is playing elsewhere.
We need to pop the pimple ASAP.

I think you guys see Melo in a wrong angle. He is a very good player at the right salary in the proper system I wouldn't go to far to say at times he can be great. I would only trade Melo for assests which will help the Knicks going forward.

That's how I would modify your statement. Almost every player can be good or bad depending on the salary.

well your "right salary" is nothing close to reality or market value so that pretty much kills the discussion. VMart is 100% correct from a straight up basketball sense simply saying that Melo is a good player and a valuable piece to have. The only thing that will really set us back is if he breaks down physically.


In a non-existent world where there are no salary restrictions, it makes sense to ignore cost and just look at production. In this world, Melo is a bad player if he has the largest contract on the planet. You seem to think we have to blindly follow the market and don't have the option to let players walk or trade them.
I'll add though that "the market" couldn't have possibly been higher than 96 mil without a no-trade clause because no other team could give more than that.
the annual salaries were going to be the same, or very close to it, and at the end of the day Phil put the best offer on the table. Again, the bold is YOUR opinion not fact, and may be shared by message forum posters but less by NBA GMs. The top talent gets paid, overpaid? Perhaps, but that is the world we live and the facts. Also the NBA is a business an if you cant stomach that some players generate more revenue than others, and that will ALWAYS be a factor than I suggest following college hoops. Its just the way it is. Constantly fighting it is a waste of effort and suggests your also focused on a non-existent world where only basketball winshares and metrics count, and not an impact a player has on a franchise off an on the court.

He's a good player. He's overpaid. He makes MSG lots of money. Deal with it.

Every sport's top players are "overpaid" by metrics and statheads standards with the possible exception of NFL QBs. EVERY SPORT. Top talent always costs the most and is always coveted and also has a direct corelation to revenue. Ill leave it at that. If you think any NBA GM can escape that your in a non-existant world.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nyk4ever
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1/15/2015  10:09 AM
gunsnewing wrote:I suggested trading Melo to Minnie 2yrs ago and was completely roasted lol
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43987&page=1

because it's stupid. even if the teams agreed to this trade, melo would never waive his no-trade clause to go there.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
fishmike
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1/15/2015  10:11 AM
gunsnewing wrote:Right we paid $30mil over market value
and you "worry" about young players being able to develop with Melo taking 30 shots a year and remember how many times you posted about Melo making $30mm a year?

Melo is the 4th highest paid player in the league. That is a fact. He will not be the highest paid player next year either. Then the new CBA will inflate max deals and he STILL wont be the highest paid player. I know that upsets some of the daily half truths you gents cling to as holy ground but Im sorry.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
VCoug
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1/15/2015  10:11 AM
BRIGGS wrote:How about this trade with Minnesota

Pick lets say 3 or 4 pick 33 Chase Budinger Anthony Bennett for Melo. We take back 11mm in sht salary and they get a star who can come in and play with Rubio KeVin Martin Wiggins Mo Williams Pervoic--it makes them formidable right away. Melo plays with a good team he get another 10mm and we get a second high lottery pick and a high 2.

Melo has a no-trade clause and there's no way he'll waive it to be traded to Minnesota.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
nyk4ever
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1/15/2015  10:11 AM
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:Thanks, Guns.

No true rebuild can begin until that overpriced, egotistical, cap hog is playing elsewhere.
We need to pop the pimple ASAP.

I think you guys see Melo in a wrong angle. He is a very good player at the right salary in the proper system I wouldn't go to far to say at times he can be great. I would only trade Melo for assests which will help the Knicks going forward.

That's how I would modify your statement. Almost every player can be good or bad depending on the salary.

well your "right salary" is nothing close to reality or market value so that pretty much kills the discussion. VMart is 100% correct from a straight up basketball sense simply saying that Melo is a good player and a valuable piece to have. The only thing that will really set us back is if he breaks down physically.


In a non-existent world where there are no salary restrictions, it makes sense to ignore cost and just look at production. In this world, Melo is a bad player if he has the largest contract on the planet. You seem to think we have to blindly follow the market and don't have the option to let players walk or trade them.
I'll add though that "the market" couldn't have possibly been higher than 96 mil without a no-trade clause because no other team could give more than that.
the annual salaries were going to be the same, or very close to it, and at the end of the day Phil put the best offer on the table. Again, the bold is YOUR opinion not fact, and may be shared by message forum posters but less by NBA GMs. The top talent gets paid, overpaid? Perhaps, but that is the world we live and the facts. Also the NBA is a business an if you cant stomach that some players generate more revenue than others, and that will ALWAYS be a factor than I suggest following college hoops. Its just the way it is. Constantly fighting it is a waste of effort and suggests your also focused on a non-existent world where only basketball winshares and metrics count, and not an impact a player has on a franchise off an on the court.

He's a good player. He's overpaid. He makes MSG lots of money. Deal with it.

Every sport's top players are "overpaid" by metrics and statheads standards with the possible exception of NFL QBs. EVERY SPORT. Top talent always costs the most and is always coveted and also has a direct corelation to revenue. Ill leave it at that. If you think any NBA GM can escape that your in a non-existant world.

all of this is perfectly said fish. 100%

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bonn1997
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1/15/2015  10:11 AM
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:Thanks, Guns.

No true rebuild can begin until that overpriced, egotistical, cap hog is playing elsewhere.
We need to pop the pimple ASAP.

I think you guys see Melo in a wrong angle. He is a very good player at the right salary in the proper system I wouldn't go to far to say at times he can be great. I would only trade Melo for assests which will help the Knicks going forward.

That's how I would modify your statement. Almost every player can be good or bad depending on the salary.

well your "right salary" is nothing close to reality or market value so that pretty much kills the discussion. VMart is 100% correct from a straight up basketball sense simply saying that Melo is a good player and a valuable piece to have. The only thing that will really set us back is if he breaks down physically.


In a non-existent world where there are no salary restrictions, it makes sense to ignore cost and just look at production. In this world, Melo is a bad player if he has the largest contract on the planet. You seem to think we have to blindly follow the market and don't have the option to let players walk or trade them.
I'll add though that "the market" couldn't have possibly been higher than 96 mil without a no-trade clause because no other team could give more than that.
the annual salaries were going to be the same, or very close to it, and at the end of the day Phil put the best offer on the table. Again, the bold is YOUR opinion not fact, and may be shared by message forum posters but less by NBA GMs. The top talent gets paid, overpaid? Perhaps, but that is the world we live and the facts. Also the NBA is a business an if you cant stomach that some players generate more revenue than others, and that will ALWAYS be a factor than I suggest following college hoops. Its just the way it is. Constantly fighting it is a waste of effort and suggests your also focused on a non-existent world where only basketball winshares and metrics count, and not an impact a player has on a franchise off an on the court.

He's a good player. He's overpaid. He makes MSG lots of money. Deal with it.

Every sport's top players are "overpaid" by metrics and statheads standards with the possible exception of NFL QBs. EVERY SPORT. Top talent always costs the most and is always coveted and also has a direct corelation to revenue. Ill leave it at that. If you think any NBA GM can escape that your in a non-existant world.

Well, there's probably no point in debating Melo's value further. I think we've discussed it a lot.
Out of curiosity, would you have given Chris Bosh 118 mil if you ran the Heat?
gunsnewing
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1/15/2015  10:19 AM
nyk4ever wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I suggested trading Melo to Minnie 2yrs ago and was completely roasted lol
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43987&page=1

because it's stupid. even if the teams agreed to this trade, melo would never waive his no-trade clause to go there.

He didn't have a no trade then
fishmike
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1/15/2015  10:38 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:Thanks, Guns.

No true rebuild can begin until that overpriced, egotistical, cap hog is playing elsewhere.
We need to pop the pimple ASAP.

I think you guys see Melo in a wrong angle. He is a very good player at the right salary in the proper system I wouldn't go to far to say at times he can be great. I would only trade Melo for assests which will help the Knicks going forward.

That's how I would modify your statement. Almost every player can be good or bad depending on the salary.

well your "right salary" is nothing close to reality or market value so that pretty much kills the discussion. VMart is 100% correct from a straight up basketball sense simply saying that Melo is a good player and a valuable piece to have. The only thing that will really set us back is if he breaks down physically.


In a non-existent world where there are no salary restrictions, it makes sense to ignore cost and just look at production. In this world, Melo is a bad player if he has the largest contract on the planet. You seem to think we have to blindly follow the market and don't have the option to let players walk or trade them.
I'll add though that "the market" couldn't have possibly been higher than 96 mil without a no-trade clause because no other team could give more than that.
the annual salaries were going to be the same, or very close to it, and at the end of the day Phil put the best offer on the table. Again, the bold is YOUR opinion not fact, and may be shared by message forum posters but less by NBA GMs. The top talent gets paid, overpaid? Perhaps, but that is the world we live and the facts. Also the NBA is a business an if you cant stomach that some players generate more revenue than others, and that will ALWAYS be a factor than I suggest following college hoops. Its just the way it is. Constantly fighting it is a waste of effort and suggests your also focused on a non-existent world where only basketball winshares and metrics count, and not an impact a player has on a franchise off an on the court.

He's a good player. He's overpaid. He makes MSG lots of money. Deal with it.

Every sport's top players are "overpaid" by metrics and statheads standards with the possible exception of NFL QBs. EVERY SPORT. Top talent always costs the most and is always coveted and also has a direct corelation to revenue. Ill leave it at that. If you think any NBA GM can escape that your in a non-existant world.

Well, there's probably no point in debating Melo's value further. I think we've discussed it a lot.
Out of curiosity, would you have given Chris Bosh 118 mil if you ran the Heat?

I dont know. Its a good question. I value Melo as higher than Bosh (but not by a ton). At their peeks they are probably equal, but Melo plays hurt more effectively and if you look at Bosh's career he's a beast in the first half and wears down in the 2nd half. I dont know and thats just me being honest. Its not a great hoops town and people dont come to see bad teams there. Deng/Wade/Bosh isnt bad and the East is terrible so I understand Pat's desire to put a decent team out there.

I would expect them to ride out the next couple of years and when Wade/Deng expire move Bosh in some deal for space and picks and try to rebuild. They could certainly be in the 2nd round next couple of years. Hell, they could make the finals. The East is so very weird.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nyk4ever
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1/15/2015  10:40 AM
gunsnewing wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I suggested trading Melo to Minnie 2yrs ago and was completely roasted lol
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43987&page=1

because it's stupid. even if the teams agreed to this trade, melo would never waive his no-trade clause to go there.

He didn't have a no trade then

he pretty much did because he would have never resigned there so the twolves would have never given the assets to get him

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
gunsnewing
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1/15/2015  10:43 AM
nyk4ever wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I suggested trading Melo to Minnie 2yrs ago and was completely roasted lol
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43987&page=1

because it's stupid. even if the teams agreed to this trade, melo would never waive his no-trade clause to go there.

He didn't have a no trade then

he pretty much did because he would have never resigned there so the twolves would have never given the assets to get him

So why would Minnesota trade for him now?
mreinman
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1/15/2015  11:02 AM
Vmart wrote:Trade him to the Bulls for Butler, Gibson and McDermott or pick.

I would only do this if they threw in Mirotic along with all that you mentioned.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
KncksbigKATS
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1/15/2015  11:19 AM
How about Butler, Gibson, Mirotic and their two #1s (#11 and #17) for Melo, $$$$$$$ and our lottery pick?
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships." -Michael Jordan
mreinman
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1/15/2015  11:21 AM
KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:How about Butler, Gibson, Mirotic and their two #1s (#11 and #17) for Melo, $$$$$$$ and our lottery pick?

nah ... only if they give back 2 extra first round picks and Tibs.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
nyk4ever
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1/15/2015  11:29 AM
gunsnewing wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I suggested trading Melo to Minnie 2yrs ago and was completely roasted lol
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43987&page=1

because it's stupid. even if the teams agreed to this trade, melo would never waive his no-trade clause to go there.

He didn't have a no trade then

he pretty much did because he would have never resigned there so the twolves would have never given the assets to get him

So why would Minnesota trade for him now?

if melo wanted to go there, they'd take him in a second. he'd never accept a trade there though, so talking about it is pointless.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
H1AND1
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1/15/2015  11:34 AM
mreinman wrote:
Vmart wrote:Trade him to the Bulls for Butler, Gibson and McDermott or pick.

I would only do this if they threw in Mirotic along with all that you mentioned.

LOL. And every 1st rounder up to 2020, and MJ's statue outside.

WHO SAYS NO?!?
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Lets say Melo gets surgey and hes good to go in 4 months
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