BRIGGS wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

Vmart wrote:You never max out a one way player. That was one of the reason Phil Dumped Tyson. The need is for a Big that can score a little on his own. Jordan is a lot like Tyson he needs to be setup to get his. Gasol on the other hand is more than capable to score play some defense I would max him out before Jordan.

I dunno about maxing out Gasol. He's older than these two guys, not nearly the rim protector Jordan is (or the rebounder--let's not forget Jordan provides elite level production in two important categories. I'd rather have Jordan than Tyson Chandler for example--not even close) and then I think Kanter may have even more upside as a scorer/rebounder. Gasol plays about 5 more mins per than Kanter and takes about 4 more shots a game. Give Kanter that and I think he surpasses Gasol's production and will have many more years of doing so (Kanter's only 22 years old, just coming into his own; Gasol turns 30 at the end of the month).

I wonder how Utah feels about Kanter. Do they feel he's a guy worth matching at any price? He's an UFA--they will maintain the upper hand in negotiations.

Fine I dont see Gasol coming here. His whole family is rooted in Memphis they have a solid owner team his kids are in school there and he can get the most money there. Why would he come to NY? Kanter is a decent player but doesnt pass or block shots so Id be shocked if we go there.

It can work Nesterovic/Spitter complimenting Duncan way to compliment OK4. He is younger than Jordan. Jordan works but way you max out another one dimensional. It will detroy you at other positions

The more I think about it--the more Id rather be cheap and flexible until we got what we wanted. I don't mind paying guys big one year salaries with an option if we cant find the right guys longer term. Realistically were going to have to wait and see what happens int he draft before e we can look at FA.

Just trying to put together some alternate scenarios. Very real possibility that we don't get pick 1, even with the most ping-pong balls. Or pick 2 for that matter. Finding some decent bigs in FA might be our only alternative if they decide to use the draft to upgrade at the point. Remember Melo's window is closing as every day passes. Now the guy's hurting, may even need surgery -- praying it's only a cleanup procedure, similar to the one Early just had but who knows.. Dude also has two problem shoulders that could go at any time. This is who Phil decided to build around. I'd like them to formulate a plan to build around him and execute asap. Last thing I'd wanna see is another Pat Ewing scenario with Melo where we finally bring in enough pieces only to see Melo hurt and on the steep decline.

Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

Vmart wrote:You never max out a one way player. That was one of the reason Phil Dumped Tyson. The need is for a Big that can score a little on his own. Jordan is a lot like Tyson he needs to be setup to get his. Gasol on the other hand is more than capable to score play some defense I would max him out before Jordan.

I dunno about maxing out Gasol. He's older than these two guys, not nearly the rim protector Jordan is (or the rebounder--let's not forget Jordan provides elite level production in two important categories. I'd rather have Jordan than Tyson Chandler for example--not even close) and then I think Kanter may have even more upside as a scorer/rebounder. Gasol plays about 5 more mins per than Kanter and takes about 4 more shots a game. Give Kanter that and I think he surpasses Gasol's production and will have many more years of doing so (Kanter's only 22 years old, just coming into his own; Gasol turns 30 at the end of the month).

I wonder how Utah feels about Kanter. Do they feel he's a guy worth matching at any price? He's an UFA--they will maintain the upper hand in negotiations.

Fine I dont see Gasol coming here. His whole family is rooted in Memphis they have a solid owner team his kids are in school there and he can get the most money there. Why would he come to NY? Kanter is a decent player but doesnt pass or block shots so Id be shocked if we go there.

Agreed. Forgot about the hometown Memphis angle. Good point. I'm not feeling Gasol either, certainly not for the max.

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Don't think Phil would want Jordan. No midrange game and not much of a passer, either. Has averaged 42% from the foul line.

Kanter would be more of a fit offensively in terms of his shot, but he is not much of a passer, and he rarely blocks shots, despite his size.

Not sure how anyone would want Jordan over Gasol, unless you are talking durability. He is a better defender, but is limited in so many ways.

Jordan is 4-5 years younger but also a build that looks more durable. Gasol is a plodder. He's a fractured foot away from being useless. He may play another healthy 10 years, hell Sabonis had a build like that but I prefer a guy I can anchor a defense around. Also he's a great fit if we dont get OK4 but you can play Melo next to him.

Imagine how our defense improves with
Jordan C (max)
Melo back at PF
and we draft Stanley Johnson to play the 3
overpay for Wesley Mathews at the SG (start at $12mm)
Suddenly Calderon at PG doesnt seem so bad

Just one scenario where I think Jordan is a huge pickup

Jordan max--fishmike???? Blake Griffin Chris paul--max YES Jordan is only a guy who eats off their plates. If we give max money they have to be a premium skill player. And NO way would I give Matthews 12mm--TWELEVE MILLION????? that means we just spend 100mm on Jordan and Matthews and thats our team?? By the way why do you want Stanley Johnson when we have Melo? Two guys who plays iso with the ball--watch Johnson play he dribbles the ball A LOT and his usage is only fair for the time he has the ball. Hes still young with a lot of talent--but my guess is we pass there too.

Look...if your going to land good FAs whats the lure? Who is the best defensive frontcourt player in the NBA? Its Jordan easily. I mean I would love Jimmy Butler. Its like a 2% chance. Im looking at guys who make sense and fit. At 26 years old Jordan can anchor the middle. Its a massive need. Mathews is really good... Im very high on him.

As for Stanley Johnson he's got an NBA skill set and he's a defender. Its such a wing game... you must have a physical guy who can be a stopper. He's that with the upside to be a Paul George type.

I would much rather max out Aldridge and Butler and call it a day. I dont see that as viable. We are going to pay some guys alot and some a little. You hope like hell you can find a diamond in the rough off the scrap heap.. Gilbert Arenas, Brad Miller... guys who you can find at low cost. Thats also the value of this pick.. a rotation (star?) player in a rookie deal for 4 years.

FAs? If you want 2nd tier under the radar guys OK fine... if you want higher impact guys your gonna have to shell out.

I would only spend big money on a pure skill player. Id rather try to find the next Wes Matthews or something like that in the d league or the draft then spend 50mm $ on him??? We are not fixing this in one year--we need to be cheap with the $$$$ unless its a no brainer.

Who knows what kind of salesman Phil is. Time will tell.

The advantage of building it up defensively is it makes the other parts easy. I mean guys who can score but dont defend much are like corner outfielders with bad arms who can hit 25 HR. Guys who can anchor a team's defense are tough. A Jordan/SJohnson/Mathews roster add instantly makes the Knicks one of the better defensive teams immediatly.

Just a thought... but I do think Jordan is one of the guys I would overpay for, and yes I know its overpaying.

Finestrg wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Kanter will get more than 10M but should not be offered more. I think the Jazz let him go if he gets an offer sheet of over $10m. They like Trevor Booker and Gobert and Favors need time on the floor. They can find a cheaper back up C to take the place of Kanter now that Booker is there at the 4 and Gobert is coming on strong. Booker is a UFA the next summer and I doubt they want to tie up money in Kanter.

I hope you're right as far as what Utah might be thinking. I like this guy. From the Knicks' perspective, I think he might be worth a shot at $10mm or more. It's substantial money yet not max money--I think he might be worth it -- 6'11.25" 250 (in 2011 -- has he grown since? Is he done growing?), very mobile with great footwork, very skilled offensively (he can beat guys posting up inside, he can face up and take guys off the dribble and he can shoot with some range---excellent combo. of offensive skills), and he's only 22 with legit upside. Very good chance this guy, with more a few mins. and touches/game, could be a legit 20/10 guy in this league starting next year and for years to come. I see more value here than a Marc Gasol.

Kanter has grown offensively. The problem still remains his defense. He is surrounded bt defensive bigs and even with his improved game he remains a net negative. The guy will have to work hard to become better defender or else he is going to be a big version of Calderon.

gunsnewing wrote:Or Bargnani

I believe Kanter will actually be good offensively though.

I actually like the idea of getting Kanter period. I think he would do well in the triangle. He's not much of a defender as far as shot blocking, but the dude would bring the same type of game okafor would without the huge upside. I do not want to max out Gasol or Jordan.

EnySpree wrote:I think Kanter is worth a look if we don't get okafor. I kinda like the idea of signing Kanter if we drafted Towns.

I actually like the idea of getting Kanter period. I think he would do well in the triangle. He's not much of a defender as far as shot blocking, but the dude would bring the same type of game okafor would without the huge upside. I do not want to max out Gasol or Jordan.

Agreed. Definitely worth a look if we don't get Okafor. I think Kanter goes for at least 18/10 with a few more mins and shots per game easily. Real big upside offensively and he'll be a double-digit rebounder. Only 22 years old. If we can get Kanter and slide him in next to Melo, grab a cheap big or two to do the dirty work (Briggs mentioned Hassan Whiteside--how 'bout Jeff Withey? Maybe even Cole Aldrich could suffice), upgrade at the point (say we draft Mudiay and added a nice backup point--I really like the look of this kid Bryce Cotton), upgrade the 2 spot/add some good bench depth without overpaying--not a picture perfect scenario, but far from terrible. Should be money left over for 2016 FA in this scenario...I wouldn't be surprised if it wound up going down like this...If we can get Okafor, GREAT. If not, this is a halfway decent backup plan. One of many.

Our big miss in the draft mightve been Gobert--I didnt think too highly of him but its possible he could be the best player in that draft class over time.

If Gobert is their C how are they going to go with Favors who makes 14mm and Kanter at PF?

The Knicks could draft Towns as a 5 and give Kanter a maximum deal which I highly doubt the Jazz could ever match if he continued this type of play.

BRIGGS wrote:Fine--last two games Kanter 23.5 points 16.5 rebounds on avg.

Our big miss in the draft mightve been Gobert--I didnt think too highly of him but its possible he could be the best player in that draft class over time.

If Gobert is their C how are they going to go with Favors who makes 14mm and Kanter at PF?

The Knicks could draft Towns as a 5 and give Kanter a maximum deal which I highly doubt the Jazz could ever match if he continued this type of play.

He's been great the past couple of games. 24/17, 23/16. Then there was a game the other day he played only 21 mins/took only 6 shots and was ineffective (didn't appear to be foul trouble -- he had only 2 fouls that game)... To me, it all comes down to mins. and touches with Kanter, 2 important things he's not getting consistently in Utah. The last 2 games he's played: 33 & 36 mins and he's taken 20 and 15 shots. Nic Vucevic is the camparison to make with Kanter. If I had Kanter, I'd be using him like Orlando's using Vucevic -- Vuc is averaging 19/11 on almost 16 FGA in over 34 mins a night. Kanter by comparison: 27 mins, 14/7.6, 11.7 FGA...Give Kanter Vucevic's mins/touches and he'll produce similar scoring/rebounding stats -- it's a guarantee and we could use that type of stabilizing production. I could see a little better scorer (Kanter has MONSTER offensive skills--a little better than Nic Vucevic imo who's damn good himself -- Kanter's even stepping out and knocking down 3s from time to time) and maybe a shade less in the rebounding column (Vuc might be a slightly better rebounder). That puts us right at 20 & 10. And this guy's 2 years younger than Vucevic. Kanter's ceiling may be a better version of Rony Seikaly.

I'd even use Vucevic as a comparison in trying to come up with a contract offer for Kanter. Vucevic just got a 4-yr/$53mm contract extension from the Magic. I think Kanter would sign that exact same offer sheet but then Utah may match. We'll need to come up with more -- maybe 4-yrs/$59mm. If we can offer more though, I think I would -- I might go into the $60-65mm range (thought I read somewhere where Kanter's max starts at $15.9mm a season). Whatever it is, I'd go right to the max the very 1st day of FA. Make it difficult for Utah to match (they don't wanna pay this guy max money -- they had an opportunity to already and contract discussions fell apart). The Jazz just gave Favors a 4-yr extension, same for Burks, Hayward will make about $15.5 next year, and they like Gobert and will probably wanna lock him up in a year or 2 down the road. I could see them walking away from Kanter. Then again, he's their best overall talent imo so it's hard to see them not matching, esp. with the salary cap expected to increase. Plus when you get right down to it, Kanter's max is far less than another player with more years in the NBA--another sign pointing toward Utah matching...Tough call for the Knicks because there's no guarantee we get this guy. I like Kanter a ton for us, I just don't wanna see the Knicks waste their time if there's no shot here. Utah will be in the driver's seat. It'll be up to them. I wish there was a better way of gauging Utah's intentions regarding Kanter leading up to the draft/FA. Kanter's agent may only tell us what we wanna hear, or he may not even really know what they're up to.

I like the idea of drafting Towns and pairing him with Kanter up front. Towns is growing on me -- he's big and skilled on both ends and I could see him developing into a better player in the NBA than what we're seeing in college. My thing -- where's the PG upgrade coming from then? If we got Towns in the draft and were successful getting Kanter with a max offer in FA, will there be money left over for a top FA PG? We may have about $10mm left over to try to lure a guy like Brandon Knight or Goran Dragic. Is that enough? I don't think so...An alternative would be to draft a top PG (Mudiay or maybe this kid Russell), offer Kanter the max (trying to secure upgrades both up front and at the point), then go cheap on a shot-blocker to protect Kanter and the rim (Khem Birch would come dirt cheap or maybe we could get Jeff Withey for mini-mid level type money--$3-5mm, maybe less). I dunno -- a few different ways we could go here.

Finestrg wrote:Like everyone else, I want this Jahlil Okafor in the draft, but say it doesn't work out. Say we get pick 3 in this draft and like Emmanuel Mudiay, enough to take him with the 3rd pick (who knows how high the Knicks will wind up having this kid on their draft board when the time comes. Plus, we do need a PG upgrade one way or another however we can manage it). Just thinking about our best big man options in FA, specifically at C. I think there are 2 pretty good ones: DeAndre Jordan and Enes Kanter. Two completely different players here--one's an athletic rim-protector/alley-oop converter; the other's a very nice offensive player/potential 10 rpg guy who's just starting to come into his own.

What's each guy's worth in FA? Who do you guys prefer if we went this route (a big in FA as opposed to the draft)? Who's the better buy between these two? Jordan's restricted and might be easier to get although I think I prefer Kanter--I like the youth and I think he has more upside than Jordan overall, definitely on the offensive end where it's not even close. More complete player I'm thinking, although Jordan's rim defense is elite level. Kanter's an unrestricted FA -- does Utah match a sizable offer sheet to retain him? I think either one of these guys could help us next year if we were forced into Plan B mode.

Who fits our plans better?

Thanks for posting these- I was about to do a search on youtube for his highlights. Those commentators are awful though! Enes is a weird one- I remember following his numbers a season or two, ago and he was capable of putting up some absolute monster stats- but then nothing really came of it. He's still as wildly inconsistent as he always was. Maybe you take a gamble on him and it pays off big time, but he could also be a bust- he's a risky target! I really don't know enough about him.

What's his defense like?