Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I wouldnt trade pick 1 under any circumstance ZERO. This team and franchise needs a drafted building block. I would not trade the 1st pick even for Lebron--thats how high I am on Okafor. Okafor to me represents 15 years of winning Pick 2(probably zero as well) or 3/ it would have to be a king's ransom. I do not think the NY Knicks are going to base even a scintilla of thought process on how Carmelo Anthony thinks we should proceed. By the way I think the Cavs fcked up by trading what couldve been Jabari Parker for Love. We cant assume Parker wouldve been hurt but having Parker at a cost restricted level by himself is superior to Kevin Love's over rated play and contract. Trading a high pick for an established player has been brutal for the Knicks. I'd say its time to start rethinking how we build the team. I think pick 1 and 2 are probably set in stone to be Okafor and Towns. The Knicks need a foundational big player.

The Cavs are an example of how hard it is to turn around a bad team. Adding Lebron and Love to a .400 team only brings you to .600. What does that tell you about our sub .200 team?!
Wiggins numbers are terrible right now in Minnesota. He may someday be a good player but Lebron will be very old by then. Keeping the two together didn't make sense. They still have a long way to go if they want to bring the team up from .600 to .750 though.

The Spurs went from a.244 win% in 1996 to having 17 straight winning seasons at an avg of .700 ball and 5 championships. If you get the right player in the draft it can tunr around your fortunes quickly.

The Nuggets went from a ,207 winning percentage in 03 to a ,524 percentage in 04. They ended a six year playoff drought and made 10 consecutive appearances. The Knicks have a big piece and should be able to add several pieces in free agency. I think the Knicks will be much better after next offseason.

Sure, if everything goes right, I do think we can become a .500 team again. It still took them 6 years to just make it to the conference finals, and we definitely don't have 6 years. That would be Melo's eighteenth season!

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I wouldnt trade pick 1 under any circumstance ZERO. This team and franchise needs a drafted building block. I would not trade the 1st pick even for Lebron--thats how high I am on Okafor. Okafor to me represents 15 years of winning Pick 2(probably zero as well) or 3/ it would have to be a king's ransom. I do not think the NY Knicks are going to base even a scintilla of thought process on how Carmelo Anthony thinks we should proceed. By the way I think the Cavs fcked up by trading what couldve been Jabari Parker for Love. We cant assume Parker wouldve been hurt but having Parker at a cost restricted level by himself is superior to Kevin Love's over rated play and contract. Trading a high pick for an established player has been brutal for the Knicks. I'd say its time to start rethinking how we build the team. I think pick 1 and 2 are probably set in stone to be Okafor and Towns. The Knicks need a foundational big player.

The Cavs are an example of how hard it is to turn around a bad team. Adding Lebron and Love to a .400 team only brings you to .600. What does that tell you about our sub .200 team?!
Wiggins numbers are terrible right now in Minnesota. He may someday be a good player but Lebron will be very old by then. Keeping the two together didn't make sense. They still have a long way to go if they want to bring the team up from .600 to .750 though.

The Spurs went from a.244 win% in 1996 to having 17 straight winning seasons at an avg of .700 ball and 5 championships. If you get the right player in the draft it can tunr around your fortunes quickly.

The Nuggets went from a ,207 winning percentage in 03 to a ,524 percentage in 04. They ended a six year playoff drought and made 10 consecutive appearances. The Knicks have a big piece and should be able to add several pieces in free agency. I think the Knicks will be much better after next offseason.

Sure, if everything goes right, I do think we can become a .500 team again. It still took them 6 years to just make it to the conference finals, and we definitely don't have 6 years. That would be Melo's eighteenth season!

The Knicks are winning at a rate of .152 right now. I do think they get back to a little better than .500 next year. I think conference finals in 2-3 years if they make the right moves.

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I wouldnt trade pick 1 under any circumstance ZERO. This team and franchise needs a drafted building block. I would not trade the 1st pick even for Lebron--thats how high I am on Okafor. Okafor to me represents 15 years of winning Pick 2(probably zero as well) or 3/ it would have to be a king's ransom. I do not think the NY Knicks are going to base even a scintilla of thought process on how Carmelo Anthony thinks we should proceed. By the way I think the Cavs fcked up by trading what couldve been Jabari Parker for Love. We cant assume Parker wouldve been hurt but having Parker at a cost restricted level by himself is superior to Kevin Love's over rated play and contract. Trading a high pick for an established player has been brutal for the Knicks. I'd say its time to start rethinking how we build the team. I think pick 1 and 2 are probably set in stone to be Okafor and Towns. The Knicks need a foundational big player.

The Cavs are an example of how hard it is to turn around a bad team. Adding Lebron and Love to a .400 team only brings you to .600. What does that tell you about our sub .200 team?!
Wiggins numbers are terrible right now in Minnesota. He may someday be a good player but Lebron will be very old by then. Keeping the two together didn't make sense. They still have a long way to go if they want to bring the team up from .600 to .750 though.

The Spurs went from a.244 win% in 1996 to having 17 straight winning seasons at an avg of .700 ball and 5 championships. If you get the right player in the draft it can tunr around your fortunes quickly.

The Nuggets went from a ,207 winning percentage in 03 to a ,524 percentage in 04. They ended a six year playoff drought and made 10 consecutive appearances. The Knicks have a big piece and should be able to add several pieces in free agency. I think the Knicks will be much better after next offseason.

Sure, if everything goes right, I do think we can become a .500 team again. It still took them 6 years to just make it to the conference finals, and we definitely don't have 6 years. That would be Melo's eighteenth season!

The Knicks are winning at a rate of .152 right now. I do think they get back to a little better than .500 next year. I think conference finals in 2-3 years if they make the right moves.

So about a .300 improvement next year and then a .300 improvement in the next 1 to 2 years? Do you know how remarkably unlikely that is?
It would make much more sense to have a 5 or more year plan of continuous improvement, but obviously that's too long to include Melo

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I wouldnt trade pick 1 under any circumstance ZERO. This team and franchise needs a drafted building block. I would not trade the 1st pick even for Lebron--thats how high I am on Okafor. Okafor to me represents 15 years of winning Pick 2(probably zero as well) or 3/ it would have to be a king's ransom. I do not think the NY Knicks are going to base even a scintilla of thought process on how Carmelo Anthony thinks we should proceed. By the way I think the Cavs fcked up by trading what couldve been Jabari Parker for Love. We cant assume Parker wouldve been hurt but having Parker at a cost restricted level by himself is superior to Kevin Love's over rated play and contract. Trading a high pick for an established player has been brutal for the Knicks. I'd say its time to start rethinking how we build the team. I think pick 1 and 2 are probably set in stone to be Okafor and Towns. The Knicks need a foundational big player.

The Cavs are an example of how hard it is to turn around a bad team. Adding Lebron and Love to a .400 team only brings you to .600. What does that tell you about our sub .200 team?!
Wiggins numbers are terrible right now in Minnesota. He may someday be a good player but Lebron will be very old by then. Keeping the two together didn't make sense. They still have a long way to go if they want to bring the team up from .600 to .750 though.

The Spurs went from a.244 win% in 1996 to having 17 straight winning seasons at an avg of .700 ball and 5 championships. If you get the right player in the draft it can tunr around your fortunes quickly.

The Nuggets went from a ,207 winning percentage in 03 to a ,524 percentage in 04. They ended a six year playoff drought and made 10 consecutive appearances. The Knicks have a big piece and should be able to add several pieces in free agency. I think the Knicks will be much better after next offseason.

thats crazy. Who did they draft? He must have been pretty solid.

Yeah who did they sign too in subsequent yrs

Oh wait may not want to go there

Because that would mean when we go from a 15win team to

40 win team we'll have to give all credit to OK4 and Goran dragic

Instead of Puff Stay MarshMelo Head

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I wouldnt trade pick 1 under any circumstance ZERO. This team and franchise needs a drafted building block. I would not trade the 1st pick even for Lebron--thats how high I am on Okafor. Okafor to me represents 15 years of winning Pick 2(probably zero as well) or 3/ it would have to be a king's ransom. I do not think the NY Knicks are going to base even a scintilla of thought process on how Carmelo Anthony thinks we should proceed. By the way I think the Cavs fcked up by trading what couldve been Jabari Parker for Love. We cant assume Parker wouldve been hurt but having Parker at a cost restricted level by himself is superior to Kevin Love's over rated play and contract. Trading a high pick for an established player has been brutal for the Knicks. I'd say its time to start rethinking how we build the team. I think pick 1 and 2 are probably set in stone to be Okafor and Towns. The Knicks need a foundational big player.

The Cavs are an example of how hard it is to turn around a bad team. Adding Lebron and Love to a .400 team only brings you to .600. What does that tell you about our sub .200 team?!
Wiggins numbers are terrible right now in Minnesota. He may someday be a good player but Lebron will be very old by then. Keeping the two together didn't make sense. They still have a long way to go if they want to bring the team up from .600 to .750 though.

The Spurs went from a.244 win% in 1996 to having 17 straight winning seasons at an avg of .700 ball and 5 championships. If you get the right player in the draft it can tunr around your fortunes quickly.

The Nuggets went from a ,207 winning percentage in 03 to a ,524 percentage in 04. They ended a six year playoff drought and made 10 consecutive appearances. The Knicks have a big piece and should be able to add several pieces in free agency. I think the Knicks will be much better after next offseason.

thats crazy. Who did they draft? He must have been pretty solid.

Yeah who did they sign too in subsequent yrs

Oh wait may not want to go there

Because that would mean when we go from a 15win team to

40 win team we'll have to give all credit to OK4 and Goran dragic

Instead of Puff Stay MarshMelo Head

Who cares where they go if they get OK4 and Dragic?

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I wouldnt trade pick 1 under any circumstance ZERO. This team and franchise needs a drafted building block. I would not trade the 1st pick even for Lebron--thats how high I am on Okafor. Okafor to me represents 15 years of winning Pick 2(probably zero as well) or 3/ it would have to be a king's ransom. I do not think the NY Knicks are going to base even a scintilla of thought process on how Carmelo Anthony thinks we should proceed. By the way I think the Cavs fcked up by trading what couldve been Jabari Parker for Love. We cant assume Parker wouldve been hurt but having Parker at a cost restricted level by himself is superior to Kevin Love's over rated play and contract. Trading a high pick for an established player has been brutal for the Knicks. I'd say its time to start rethinking how we build the team. I think pick 1 and 2 are probably set in stone to be Okafor and Towns. The Knicks need a foundational big player.

The Cavs are an example of how hard it is to turn around a bad team. Adding Lebron and Love to a .400 team only brings you to .600. What does that tell you about our sub .200 team?!
Wiggins numbers are terrible right now in Minnesota. He may someday be a good player but Lebron will be very old by then. Keeping the two together didn't make sense. They still have a long way to go if they want to bring the team up from .600 to .750 though.

The Spurs went from a.244 win% in 1996 to having 17 straight winning seasons at an avg of .700 ball and 5 championships. If you get the right player in the draft it can tunr around your fortunes quickly.

You don't think that had anything to do with DRobinson being out for the season? One of the greatest players in the history of the NBA?

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I wouldnt trade pick 1 under any circumstance ZERO. This team and franchise needs a drafted building block. I would not trade the 1st pick even for Lebron--thats how high I am on Okafor. Okafor to me represents 15 years of winning Pick 2(probably zero as well) or 3/ it would have to be a king's ransom. I do not think the NY Knicks are going to base even a scintilla of thought process on how Carmelo Anthony thinks we should proceed. By the way I think the Cavs fcked up by trading what couldve been Jabari Parker for Love. We cant assume Parker wouldve been hurt but having Parker at a cost restricted level by himself is superior to Kevin Love's over rated play and contract. Trading a high pick for an established player has been brutal for the Knicks. I'd say its time to start rethinking how we build the team. I think pick 1 and 2 are probably set in stone to be Okafor and Towns. The Knicks need a foundational big player.

The Cavs are an example of how hard it is to turn around a bad team. Adding Lebron and Love to a .400 team only brings you to .600. What does that tell you about our sub .200 team?!
Wiggins numbers are terrible right now in Minnesota. He may someday be a good player but Lebron will be very old by then. Keeping the two together didn't make sense. They still have a long way to go if they want to bring the team up from .600 to .750 though.

The Spurs went from a.244 win% in 1996 to having 17 straight winning seasons at an avg of .700 ball and 5 championships. If you get the right player in the draft it can tunr around your fortunes quickly.

The Nuggets went from a ,207 winning percentage in 03 to a ,524 percentage in 04. They ended a six year playoff drought and made 10 consecutive appearances. The Knicks have a big piece and should be able to add several pieces in free agency. I think the Knicks will be much better after next offseason.

thats crazy. Who did they draft? He must have been pretty solid.

Nene

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I wouldnt trade pick 1 under any circumstance ZERO. This team and franchise needs a drafted building block. I would not trade the 1st pick even for Lebron--thats how high I am on Okafor. Okafor to me represents 15 years of winning Pick 2(probably zero as well) or 3/ it would have to be a king's ransom. I do not think the NY Knicks are going to base even a scintilla of thought process on how Carmelo Anthony thinks we should proceed. By the way I think the Cavs fcked up by trading what couldve been Jabari Parker for Love. We cant assume Parker wouldve been hurt but having Parker at a cost restricted level by himself is superior to Kevin Love's over rated play and contract. Trading a high pick for an established player has been brutal for the Knicks. I'd say its time to start rethinking how we build the team. I think pick 1 and 2 are probably set in stone to be Okafor and Towns. The Knicks need a foundational big player.

The Cavs are an example of how hard it is to turn around a bad team. Adding Lebron and Love to a .400 team only brings you to .600. What does that tell you about our sub .200 team?!
Wiggins numbers are terrible right now in Minnesota. He may someday be a good player but Lebron will be very old by then. Keeping the two together didn't make sense. They still have a long way to go if they want to bring the team up from .600 to .750 though.

The Spurs went from a.244 win% in 1996 to having 17 straight winning seasons at an avg of .700 ball and 5 championships. If you get the right player in the draft it can tunr around your fortunes quickly.

The Nuggets went from a ,207 winning percentage in 03 to a ,524 percentage in 04. They ended a six year playoff drought and made 10 consecutive appearances. The Knicks have a big piece and should be able to add several pieces in free agency. I think the Knicks will be much better after next offseason.

thats crazy. Who did they draft? He must have been pretty solid.

Nene

He was on the 17 win team. They drafted a different guy the next year and won 26 more games and didn't miss the playoffs for the next ten years.

meeeeeeeeeeeeeee-low?

BRIGGS wrote:I wouldnt trade pick 1 under any circumstance ZERO. This team and franchise needs a drafted building block. I would not trade the 1st pick even for Lebron--thats how high I am on Okafor. Okafor to me represents 15 years of winning Pick 2(probably zero as well) or 3/ it would have to be a king's ransom. I do not think the NY Knicks are going to base even a scintilla of thought process on how Carmelo Anthony thinks we should proceed. By the way I think the Cavs fcked up by trading what couldve been Jabari Parker for Love. We cant assume Parker wouldve been hurt but having Parker at a cost restricted level by himself is superior to Kevin Love's over rated play and contract. Trading a high pick for an established player has been brutal for the Knicks. I'd say its time to start rethinking how we build the team. I think pick 1 and 2 are probably set in stone to be Okafor and Towns. The Knicks need a foundational big player.

Briggs, I am sure you understand that this is a very deep draft and outside of this pick, we have little ability to improve through the draft in the next 8 years or so
While virtually all the other teams have many picks, young assets, and cap space, and we are the COMPLETE OPPOSITE

The main point of this post, was to point out that keeping CA and developing a franchise player simply will not sit well with CA
Do we really want him to start pulling tantrums, which we know he is capable of doing or doing anything that would severely hit our trade value?
Right now we are heavily invested in to CA with NO TEAM, with the minutes he is playing right now, we are risking that he will get hurt in meaningless games as well
CA's EGO and pride will not allow a yount player to fully develop....

We are looking to change the culture of this team and by doing that we will need to totally change the roster
Lebron was had no interest in waiting for #1 Wriggons/Parker or whoever to develop
CA will suffere 2 losing seasons in a row, he surely will not tolerate another season of this crap

So our options would be either

1- trade the pick for multiple picks or/and other talents on this depleted roster, while signing all the talent we can this summer

2- to trade CA and focus on DEVELOPMENT, especially if there are teams willing to take his contract and give us back good value if we do a fire sale by the trade deadline

IF we keep the our pick and keep CA we have little ability to improve the roster with the salary cap
Unless ALL STAR and 2nd tier STAR's are actually attracted to come to this roster and come for the less money than other teams can give, which is high unlikely.......

If we do move CA, we are best to move him to a team in the Western Conference but CA must also agree to it, making Houston the best destination for him and for us, if Morey is willing to offer us a good package
They have multiple picks and some decent young players to offer us and it also puts pressure on JR Smith to OPT out of his contract as he knows he will not be part of this roster in the future without CA here

None of know what value CA could net us at this point but I am saying we should be looking at all options at this point and not limit ourselves to any ONE thing
We could create a market and a bidding war in terms of packages for

1) CA

and

2) The #1 or #2 overall pick, that could net us back multiple picks in this draft and future drafts, in addition to young players we could use

We have many options at this point that could completely change our franchise around....
So see what is out there and consider what would be the best road for our future
There are so many teams with multiple picks and packages they could offer us and there is a good possiblity that someone will overpay for these 2 major assets

LivingLegend wrote:I like the option of keeping the pick and selecting either Okafor or Towns --- I'm a Towns man myself right now.

After that safest path is to potentially target younger free agents --- meaning guys who are in the 24-27 range rather than the 28-30 range.

This way you don't throw all of your cap eggs into Melo and 2 older free agents who might not pan out and leave you holding an empty bag of washed up fugazy stars.

If you target younger players like say R-Jackson, G-Monroe -- I think Hibbert is still 27 (not sure). You can develop these guys with the say Towns for 2-3 years and the new free agents will be entering their prime rather than their decline years. If it all fails to come together - you have the option of moving Melo in 2 years or so to either clear cap space or mix in some new talent. This also bridges you past 2016 and we can start using our own picks again (I think).

So if we drafted Towns and signed say Monroe/Jackson. You could go into next year with a line-up of Monroe/Towns/Melo/THJ/R-Jackson and see what you have with this younger core - built around Melo.

I'd think Monroe/Melo would help Towns and Towns would help Monroe/Melo -

Just a thought --- not sure it's the right way but I always prefer to go younger -- particularly if the economics might work better in terms of landing 2 players rather than 1

I think lineup work work on OFFENSE, In General, I think Monroe is a best utilized as a player to initiate an OFFENSE as a first option as a undersized Center
However, these guys will get killed on DEFENSE

I don't believe we need to be a great defensive team, but we likely will have to atleast be a GOOD DEFENSIVE team and a VERY GOOD REBOUNDING TEAM
Outside of when Towns body is developed and when he gets adjusted to the NBA (will take 2-3 years at minimum( CA will be on his last legs by then
I fail to believe that CA is willing to wait till a rookie is developed b4 we can actually contend, he didn't even want to wait till 2015 to be contending

If CA is not happy with the the chances of us Phill being able to put a team together by next summer that can actually contend, he will put a tantrum that will hurt the chemistry/development/culture that we have been trying to instill on this franchise
I do not blame him either, he knows he has an expiration date before he will decline

And while teams like Houston, OKC, Chicago, Spur's, Dallas, and many upcoming teams that are average right now, have cap room and multiple draft picks to continue to get better
So as these teams are already contending, with many others, they will continue to get better with their young core with more more draft picks, exemptions, and others ways to continue to improve

At this point, who really has leverage over each other?
CA or Phil Jackson and the Knick's?

If CA wants out, he can force his way out and we could hold on to him if we want but if he isn't happy here, it could get ugly and make his trade value go down as he holds the cards for his destination with the NO TRADE clause......

This isn't like the NFL, where teams can take the loss and cut the contracts as they usually are not for long term guaranteed money...
He signed up to be a contender in the very near future and if he are unable to give him that opportunity, it is best to get back good value for him while sending him off to a Western Conference and NOT to a team that could be our contender in the East....

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I wouldnt trade pick 1 under any circumstance ZERO. This team and franchise needs a drafted building block. I would not trade the 1st pick even for Lebron--thats how high I am on Okafor. Okafor to me represents 15 years of winning Pick 2(probably zero as well) or 3/ it would have to be a king's ransom. I do not think the NY Knicks are going to base even a scintilla of thought process on how Carmelo Anthony thinks we should proceed. By the way I think the Cavs fcked up by trading what couldve been Jabari Parker for Love. We cant assume Parker wouldve been hurt but having Parker at a cost restricted level by himself is superior to Kevin Love's over rated play and contract. Trading a high pick for an established player has been brutal for the Knicks. I'd say its time to start rethinking how we build the team. I think pick 1 and 2 are probably set in stone to be Okafor and Towns. The Knicks need a foundational big player.

The Cavs are an example of how hard it is to turn around a bad team. Adding Lebron and Love to a .400 team only brings you to .600. What does that tell you about our sub .200 team?!
Wiggins numbers are terrible right now in Minnesota. He may someday be a good player but Lebron will be very old by then. Keeping the two together didn't make sense. They still have a long way to go if they want to bring the team up from .600 to .750 though.

The Spurs went from a.244 win% in 1996 to having 17 straight winning seasons at an avg of .700 ball and 5 championships. If you get the right player in the draft it can tunr around your fortunes quickly.

The Nuggets went from a ,207 winning percentage in 03 to a ,524 percentage in 04. They ended a six year playoff drought and made 10 consecutive appearances. The Knicks have a big piece and should be able to add several pieces in free agency. I think the Knicks will be much better after next offseason.

thats crazy. Who did they draft? He must have been pretty solid.

Nene

He was on the 17 win team. They drafted a different guy the next year and won 26 more games and didn't miss the playoffs for the next ten years.

meeeeeeeeeeeeeee-low?

LOL
Yeah, these people seem to care more about his record in Denver than in NY, where our Melo winning % is in the .400s.